Politics Benefits of mining in Australia?

[nut]

Rebates don't push the price of anything down. Total cost always rises. The money for the rebate doesn't come from thing air.

Here's how it usually goes...figures are just made up for purposes of explanation

Before rebate: Solar panels cost $4000
Government offers $2000 rebate
As a result of the rebate, more people decide to buy solar panels
In response to increased demand, retailers increase prices
End result, they start charging $5000 for the panels, and you get a $2000 rebate so you still pay less.

Did the price of solar panels go down? No it did not. It went up. The $2000 rebate did not come nowhere. It came from taxpayers.

The price did not go up with the Rebate.... sure there were some dodgy operators who over charged and maybe kept prices high for a while but the Market continually brought prices down. If you were smart and shopped around and applied for your rebates then you were much better off.

 

[Pie eyed]

Rebates don't push the price of anything down. Total cost always rises. The money for the rebate doesn't come from thing air.

Here's how it usually goes...figures are just made up for purposes of explanation

Before rebate: Solar panels cost $4000
Government offers $2000 rebate
As a result of the rebate, more people decide to buy solar panels
In response to increased demand, retailers increase prices
End result, they start charging $5000 for the panels, and you get a $2000 rebate so you still pay less.

Did the price of solar panels go down? No it did not. It went up. The $2000 rebate did not come nowhere. It came from taxpayers.

They do and they have...hard fact.
You may be talking hypotheticals...look at the the reality.
Maybe you are thinking about the "competition drive prices down" lie?

 

[Max zero]

The price did not go up with the Rebate.... sure there were some dodgy operators who over charged and maybe kept prices high for a while but the Market continually brought prices down. If you were smart and shopped around and applied for your rebates then you were much better off.

Did the first homebuyers grant make homes cheaper in the long run? Or did it overheat the property market and raise prices?

 

[nut]

Did the first homebuyers grant make homes cheaper in the long run? Or did it overheat the property market and raise prices?

Completely different .... Solar dropped in price.

 

[Max zero]

Completely different .... Solar dropped in price.

Why is it completely different? The rebate was to create demand. Demand leads to higher prices.

 

[nut]

Why is it completely different? The rebate was to create demand. Demand leads to higher prices.

But it didn't ... Solar prices have dropped consistently for the last 10 years wit or with out rebates

 

[Max zero]

But it didn't ... Solar prices have dropped consistently for the last 10 years wit or with out rebates

Then why did we need a rebate?

Especially when we are buying the solar cells from China?

 

[nut]

Then why did we need a rebate?

Especially when we are buying the solar cells from China?

Because the industry was too small... it needed a a push to get the ball rolling.

 

[The Coup]

Actually, a banking profits tax would make more sense from a govt perspective than a mining profits tax.

Good point.

 

[Max zero]

Because the industry was too small... it needed a a push to get the ball rolling.

And the industry is still small. Chinese manufacturers are doing well though.

 

[nut]

And the industry is still small. Chinese manufacturers are doing well though.

So are Spanish and German inverter companies ....

 

[Max zero]

So are Spanish and German inverter companies ....

It's like uncompetitive industries that rely on subsidies to survive have trouble surviving without subsidies. Amazingly subsidies didn't make them competitive.

Car industry is another example. 70 years of subsidies. They kept saying that one day they won't need them. Yeah well.

I have no trouble with assistance to a new industry that eventually plans on competing on its own merits. But what's the point of supporting a new industry that will never be able to support itself? Manufacturing in Australia is dead. Whether it be cars or solar cells.

I would have no problems with renewable energy if it was actually competitive. But even the biggest fanboy will admit that they can't compete currently. Once they can the by all means go for it.

Why spend huge sums of money for uncompetitive technology when we can keep our current competitive technology and switch to other alternatives when they are actually better? Why switch when they are worse?

 

[nut]

It's like uncompetitive industries that rely on subsidies to survive have trouble surviving without subsidies. Amazingly subsidies didn't make them competitive.

Car industry is another example. 70 years of subsidies. They kept saying that one day they won't need them. Yeah well.

I have no trouble with assistance to a new industry that eventually plans on competing on its own merits. But what's the point of supporting a new industry that will never be able to support itself? Manufacturing in Australia is dead. Whether it be cars or solar cells.

I would have no problems with renewable energy if it was actually competitive. But even the biggest fanboy will admit that they can't compete currently. Once they can the by all means go for it.

Why spend huge sums of money for uncompetitive technology when we can keep our current competitive technology and switch to other alternatives when they are actually better? Why switch when they are worse?

Ok lets not make anything....... that will work. I'm sure we can continue to down the consumer road and just live off every other county making stuff for us.

 

[Max zero]

Ok lets not make anything....... that will work. I'm sure we can continue to down the consumer road and just live off every other county making stuff for us.

We can make stuff. Just not as well as others. We need to find industries that we can be competitive in. Mining is one as is agriculture. Education and training is also a possibility though SE Asia is rapidly catching up.

 

[nut]

We can make stuff. Just not as well as others. We need to find industries that we can be competitive in. Mining is one as is agriculture. Education and training is also a possibility though SE Asia is rapidly catching up.

So we will need to move the farms and mines to the suburbs? The myth about our higher wages making us less competitive is pure crap.... plenty of examples around the world high cost countries with strong manufacturing sectors.... We are being taken for a ride my the financial elite.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/...t-told-us-about-the-european-financial-crisis

 

[Max zero]

So we will need to move the farms and mines to the suburbs? The myth about our higher wages making us less competitive is pure crap.... plenty of examples around the world high cost countries with strong manufacturing sectors.... We are being taken for a ride my the financial elite.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/...t-told-us-about-the-european-financial-crisis

So they would be? Germany does not have a minimum wage by the wage.

If you don't think the Greeks workers had anything to do with the crisis then you have a blinkered view of history. Do you think the mass corruption and tax evasion had an effect? Or perhaps the ridiculous retirement system for the public service?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2010/02/greeces_generous_pensions

This is a blog posting, not a print article, so I have only been Googling this rather than making a dozen calls, but according to this conference paper, civil servants in Greece employed before 1992 can retire after 35 years service, if they have reached 58, and retire on 80% of their final basic salary.

Nice gig if you can get it.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/09/tax-evasion-greece

It was standardized across the board. EVERYONE did it.

 

[nut]

So they would be? Germany does not have a minimum wage by the wage.

If you don't think the Greeks workers had anything to do with the crisis then you have a blinkered view of history. Do you think the mass corruption and tax evasion had an effect? Or perhaps the ridiculous retirement system for the public service?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2010/02/greeces_generous_pensions



Nice gig if you can get it.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/09/tax-evasion-greece

It was standardized across the board. EVERYONE did it.

Germany just voted for a minimum wage.... 8.50 euro's.... but most sectors are covered by Awards.

 

[nut]

Nice gig if you can get it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensions_in_Norway#Minimal_state_pension_.28Minstepensjon.29

 

[Max zero]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensions_in_Norway#Minimal_state_pension_.28Minstepensjon.29

They have a sovereign wealth fund. Something we are too addicted to spending to have.

 

[nut]

They have a sovereign wealth fund. Something we are too addicted to spending to have.

And now we are seeing the loss of benefits of the mining boom......................... all it has really given us is over inflated house prices and now with the loss of revenue due to the commodity prices falling, we are going to go backwards.

 

[Scotland]

They have a sovereign wealth fund. Something we are too addicted to spending to have.

We should have one too, as long as private companies do all the work first.

 

[Max zero]

And now we are seeing the loss of benefits of the mining boom......................... all it has really given us is over inflated house prices and now with the loss of revenue due to the commodity prices falling, we are going to go backwards.

So where did all the royalties and company tax go?

If there was another boom the exact same thing would happen again.

We just can't save.

 

[nut]

So where did all the royalties and company tax go?

If there was another boom the exact same thing would happen again.

We just can't save.

Yep 80% of profits will go overseas again.... The increases in wages will see house prices to increase again and the banks will be the major benefactors of that again.

 

[Scotland]

30% of profits will end up in govt coffers.

The remaining 70% will be distributed to shareholders including Australian super funds.

Whoever benefits will be selfish and short sighted, govt or otherwise.

 

[nut]

Australia is right behind without being a petro state and without the crushing taxes. It is madness that Norway persists with an SWF whilst maintaining such penal taxes.

How is Australia looking now with the drop in revenues? Brace Brace Brace .....