Autopsy Blew our chances against Carlton

[caesar88]

Most pleasing thing about McLean's game is how he grew into it. Seemed nervy at the start fumbling a few he probably should've taken. Could've easily unraveled him, instead he just stuck at it and got better with each quarter. Really impressive. And that little play where he trapped the ball under his arm by kinda bouncing it off the turf was so clever.

 

[kickthething]

Last night was pretty simple, we take our chances, we win.

This game ended up could have gone either way. Over analysis comes down to a simple truth, take your chances. We missed some simple set shots and some shots in play we should have kicked.

We struggle when defences flood back and a little more composure in the last may have made a difference.

Allowing Papley to play on, Guldens not being touched, deliberate OOB not being called…..these in play things were factors. We had time to overcome all of them but just lacked the composure needed.

Leadership is a funny thing….I would think the best leadership is not overt so we really don’t get a sense for where it really sits, one dimensional views of leadership are fine, but they don’t really tell a story….good or bad. Unless you have insight into roles etc, you can only make the call on your own viewing, which is limited to form an absolute opinion.

We got the season we deserved, it was better than it was going to be and not as good as we had hoped. We are in a better place than following thevGF last year. we have plenty of work to do, if we can improve in the areas we need, next year and beyond will again provide pretty good viewing.

 

[DobmusEdge]

Yep, Blues younger than us average age. And we of course had significantly more finals experience.

However, the stats which counted the most was contested ball etc. All the rest is just frosting.

Accuracy for goal was the only stat that mattered

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Such a weird game and uneven performance from our team.

As usual I watchd with the commentary muted and flicked on the radio every now and then. Their three votes went to
Errol.

Gulden yet again played out of his skin. gGood things happen when he touches the ball.

McLean was again immense. His ball use for a big bloke was great. His pass to Amartey was elite. Hayden left his heart on the ground. So pleased he has a contract.

McCartin gave Curnow a hiding. Mills reduced Cripps to a sideshow. Plus I thought Blakey gave good run. Really happy Hickey had a strong second half as he gave it best shot.

Not going to bag other players but in general I thought several had down games.

Hopefully the match serves as a watershed for our coaching crew. Really happy Parker was taken from the mids to play forward. Think he played and directed traffic well. For mine he takes Haywards spot up forward Next year. Will can play down back as Harry’s sunset is close and Oppo smalls cause us difficulty. He is not made for the responsibility of kicking goals.

Our coaches can be more flexible and trusting of the players. Throwing extras at clearances and behind the ball loses structure and saps momentum and has become routine. It really needs to stop.

Hope all the players have a relaxing but still hard working off season.

Parker’s leadership on the forward line was terrific. I think being out of the guts also helps him read the game more clearly. I like a leadership spine of Rampe, Mills and Parker - with Gulden playing an unofficial everywhere leadership role.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

In the end we lost by two finger nails. If this was our year, Campbell and Gulden would have scored those goals. It’s just been one of those almost but not quite type of years.

I think we will look back on 2023 as the year we had to have - a lot of learnings to take away but also a lot of great development across the board. Consistency is what is lacking. That will come.

 

[The King!]

Rampe for 2 more was crazy

1 year max at his age

 

[Tedeski]

Did Tom Papley think he got that Carlton trade? seems to want to play for them

He was ******* woeful, no scoreboard impact and butchered it non stop

He is unreliable in big moments, get out of the leadership group asap

Did a few nice things in the middle but looks too noisy for li

Could use a player like Cottrell in our forward line.

In intraclubs because he always beats us.

 

[MR0808]

How has Gil/ the afl screwed you over exactly? IMO you’re probably the most looked after team in the comp outside of the expansion teams (because the afl needs a strong NSW presence)

Not having a go, curious to hear as I may be misinformed

Hopefully you've learnt why we say it now. We're like Harry Potter with the Dursleys. They look after us because they have to, not because they want to. We get the bare minimum and then expect us to be thankful and grateful for it. But when anything bad happens, no matter what, it's our fault!

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Agree with much of what everyone else was saying.

Hickey and Parker narrowly miss my bottom 6 players with redemption 2nd halves.

Aside from Amartey and Rowey, the other candidates were older and experienced players - Hayward, Papley, Heeney, Florent and Cunningham. Chuck a slowing Rampe in as well.

Mills is the cut off point for me. I don't see many of the players older than him having the legs, skills or composure necessary to win our next Premiership. FWIW, I don't see Horse as our next Premiership coach.

 

[kickthething]

Most pleasing thing about McLean's game is how he grew into it. Seemed nervy at the start fumbling a few he probably should've taken. Could've easily unraveled him, instead he just stuck at it and got better with each quarter. Really impressive. And that little play where he trapped the ball under his arm by kinda bouncing it off the turf was so clever.

McLean has got the world at his feet….He is becoming very hard to match up on and is a smart player….that bouncevwas. Instinctive and awesome.I alsoremember him being a much better kick at goal so imagine when that comes back. Great to see such a performance following getting his signature on a longer deal….how often do you see players drop off after resigning.

Amartey has the potential as well to be something else, time is running out for him to do it consistently.

 

[MR0808]

Adelaide fans could learn something about how to lose gracefully...

 

[kickthething]

I think we will look back on 2023 as the year we had to have - a lot of learnings to take away but also a lot of great development across the board. Consistency is what is lacking. That will come.

Reminds me of the down year Melbourne had…imagine a down year and you still make finals….

 

[The King!]

credit to carlton by the way, better for longer

 

[Tedeski]

credit to carlton by the way, better for longer

For a crowd of 92,000 with 90 % being Carlton supporters, it was surprisingly well behaved around me. The Cats GF was full of ferals.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Ooops - I stand corrected.
Cartlon 26yrs 7mnth
Swans 25yr 9mnth

Well hopefully see how much the age gap made a difference this time next year. I’d like to estimate now that it is the difference between exiting first week of finals and winning the whole thing

 

[Nuggetz]

We made the finals even though we've played well below our best. The scope for improvement is scary good.

It's probably a discussion for another thread but I think the coaches need to really figure out if we want to be a high pressure turnover team or a contested team. I feel like they've gone foe the former which has impacted severely on the latter.

I think we should be aiming to become ore of a contested team, if we were to favour one gamestyle over another.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Last night's game just sorta crystalized everything I think I already knew about us and have been saying for a long time.

That McLean is legit. He just churned out breakout game after breakout game in the second half of this year, proving it's no fluke, and last night's was the best of the lot.

That McCartin can be an elite, match-winnning/saving defender. If we perform better up the ground and get the W, then one of the major talking points out of this game is McCartin doing a number on the Coleman Medallist.

That we really do need Mills & Rowbottom firing. I highlighted these two as players we needed to have big games (and big years, going all the way back to pre-season.) They got less contested possessions combined than any of Cripps, Hewett & Walsh. One was tagging, the other didn't look right from the get go.

That Gulden really is the kind of cool customer who doesn't see the game in moments of importance or pressure. It's all the same to him. Six goals up in a dead rubber or five goals down in a must-win final, his level of application and intensity doesn't waver.

That Parker can be a very dangerous forward, but I won't open that can of worms.

That you can generate more scoring shots in a game than your opponents but still be the inferior team. All year we have had no problem generating our fair share of shots at goal, but too many of them feel individual-based. Individuals just pulling brilliant things out of their arse to give us a chance and keep us in games. They haven't felt system-based enough for me and it's why we fail to turn our goals into genuine, sustained momentum.

And on a slightly more sour note, once again I'm left lamenting a leadership void in a final. We just don't get enough of a return from our senior core in these games, over and over. Heeney dropping an absolute sitter in the middle of the ground, Parker missing tackles, Lloyd & Rampe spraying kicks, Papley making dumb decisions. It all adds up.

Onto next year.

Parker, Mills and Rowbottom are troubling. If I’m a new coach coming in and looking at our clearances, I’m looking to make some big changes.

The obvious one is Parker to the forward line.

Based on Mills’ AA year last year as a full time mid, I am telling him to put on weight in the gym, and that he is now a full time mid who needs to be hungrier for the ball.

I am looking to trade in someone for Rowbottom’s role, and would be willing to trade him out if needed. Rowbottom becomes depth if no trade can occurs, and you train him up to win more ball.

Sheldrick also comes in, but don’t see him replacing another mid full time for a whole season, hence the desire for a trade.

A trade probably doesn’t happen though (would have loved Crouch), so I think we need to make do.

Edit: If Parker goes up the ground, do you reinvent Heeney as a defensive mid? Tackles well, isn’t slow, good hands down low, good anticipation, a threat if he runs forward so would drive accountability from his man. He was always meant to be a mid. Maybe next year is the year of Mills and Heeney? I think I like this.

 

[Nuggetz]

Parker, Mills and Rowbottom are troubling. If I’m a new coach coming in and looking at our clearances, I’m looking to make some big changes.

The obvious one is Parker to the forward line.

Based on Mills’ AA year last year as a full time mid, I am telling him to put on weight in the gym, and that he is now a full time mid who needs to be hungrier for the ball.

I am looking to trade in someone for Rowbottom’s role, and would be willing to trade him out if needed. Rowbottom becomes depth if no trade can occurs, and you train him up to win more ball.

Sheldrick also comes in, but don’t see him replacing another mid full time for a whole season, hence the desire for a trade.

A trade probably doesn’t happen though (would have loved Crouch), so I think we need to make do.

Edit: If Parker goes up the ground, do you reinvent Heeney as a defensive mid? Tackles well, isn’t slow, good hands down low, good anticipation, a threat if he runs forward so would drive accountability from his man. He was always meant to be a mid. Maybe next year is the year of Mills and Heeney? I think I like this.

I like this. Unsure what's the go with rowbottom. Is it role related, instructions or is he not a consistent ball winning mid? No idea. I wasn't sold on papley being in the mids but he's proved me wrong. Hes probably our best clearance winner now.

I would love to see a midfield group of
Mills/gulden/papley/heeney/warner/Parker.

Heavy midfield rotations with the first 4 guys with warner and Parker pinch hitting. Maybe the wildcard is rowbottom?

Bring in the likes of sheldrick/Roberts. If they can make a positive impact then it's a bonus.

We don't necessarily need big brutes but we need contested ball winning players. Look at that rat libba, he's not big but he's a contested beast.

 

[wills2g]

Anyone else almost get PTSD from the GF when the 1st Carlton goal was a clear mistake from a throw in by Hickey and led to Carlton goal. Then Carlton gets another goal in a minute.

I mean I'm glad it didnt pan out like the GF but PTSD almost triggered

 

[Wolftone]

Sums up where we're at perfectly imo

Who's going to stand up and want the responsibility and the big moments?

Who's going to execute under pressure, who's going to will themselves and everyone around them to win the big moments consistently?

Hope it stings boys

I think Gulden was inspirational but we had too many who were only just there. McInerney was not match fit, that was bleeding obvious. We should have played Stephens. He had a good match the match before. I think that may have been the difference.

That Martin hit on Blakey has been deemed 'Careless Conduct, High Contact & Medium Impact' by the article in the SMH. What a lot of rubbish. It was a very deliberate punch in the jaw. He was trying to knock him out. If you look at the replay, he could have just tackled but his focus changes and he makes the decision to punch instead. He actually hesitates for a second. Then punches. I hope he gets 6 for what was a total NON FOOTBALL ACTION.

If we are losing to sides in an Elimination Final then we need to strengthen our depth. Blues probably won't go any further. Sheldrick must come into the mids full time next year. I agree, Parker forward. His days as a mid are gone. He farmed the ball out with no acuity, just panicked and turned the ball over on several important occasions that resulted in goals.

I think we also need to look at the coaching panel for next year, and into the future. Do we replace Horse? Or just replace some of the people around Horse? What do we do about our lack of fitness? Was this a result of the coaching staff wanting less endurance training and more ball work/skills work? The fitness staff should make decisions around levels of fitness, not coaches. I think we need to look at our stoppage & centre bounce set ups and tactics. They seem a bit loose to me. The opposition constantly get free on our offensive side, their defensive side. This gives them a straight kick down the guts from a centre bounce. At stoppages, the same applies that on their defensive side we seem to allow free players, not just one. Yes, our players are free on our defensive side too. The difference is, we seldom win the ruck. If we had a better ruck, it might help but it is still a very dangerous, very attacking, easily exploited set up. This has proved to be so and is the reason we are a very poor clearance side.

I am hoping for some good draft picks. Maybe a trade or two, but no more trading for plodders & players who's best is behind them please. If we trade in we need to trade a top quality player, no more so so players. If there is nobody that wishes to come to us then go to the draft and get good young talent.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I think Heeney got a bit lost this year. He has played his best on the wing or lead up forward. We now have plenty of wingers and three tall forwards, so he has been stuck playing the awkward role of fourth tall / crumble / defensive forward / high winger.

I think this is the hardest position to play. Hayward actually does it well, after accounting for his goal kicking yips. I don’t think it suits Heeney, who likes to be closer to the ball and/or have more freedom.

For mine, Heeney’s best roles could be defensive mid (with licence to run the other way to hurt his man) or third tall (replace Amartey). They are simpler roles.

I think Parker could take Heeney’s role. Despite making the odd dumb decision in the heat of midfield battle, Parker has great game awareness, good tackling and good marking. And taking him out of the midfield battle reduces his chances of making dumb decisions.

 

[WhippingCupcakes]

Injuries played a huge part. Not the only reason of course but at one stage we were losing players weekly. I don't know I feel like it was just one of those seasons where everything kept going wrong. I'm just glad we made the 8, I know it's crap we lost tonight but I think playing finals is invaluable. I'm really optimistic for next season.

Without so many key injuries this year, we easily make top 4.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I think Heeney got a bit lost this year. He has played his best on the wing or lead up forward. We now have plenty of wingers and three tall forwards, so he has been stuck playing the awkward role of fourth tall / crumble / defensive forward / high winger.

I think this is the hardest position to play. Hayward actually does it well, after accounting for his goal kicking yips. I don’t think it suits Heeney, who likes to be closer to the ball and/or have more freedom.

For mine, Heeney’s best roles could be defensive mid (with licence to run the other way to hurt his man) or third tall (replace Amartey). They are simpler roles.

I think Parker could take Heeney’s role. Despite making the odd dumb decision in the heat of midfield battle, Parker has great game awareness, good tackling and good marking. And taking him out of the midfield battle reduces his chances of making dumb decisions.

I would move Hayward down back. His lack of self belief means he cannot relied on up forward. I don't think Heeneys body is up to life as a crash and bash mid.

While Horse is there we will run three kpfs. I expect Buller will overtake Amartey by Round 1.

 

[Wheresbuddy]

I would move Hayward down back. His lack of self belief means he cannot relied on up forward. I don't think Heeneys body is up to life as a crash and bash mid.

While Horse is there we will run three kpfs. I expect Buller will overtake Amartey by Round 1.

How often are the 3 KPF on the park at the same time?

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

How often are the 3 KPF on the park at the same time?

Good question. The data would be interesting. McLeans ruck stints would not count.