Bring back the AFL Reserves Competition

[Rob]

If you're going to develop and grow the game, it helps to have all the bases covered in terms of where people can play.

Having second tier QLD/NSW players leave the state to play a better standard/more money doesn't help as much.

Are they more likely to play NEAFL than play in WA/SA/Vic? That was basically my question - is the standard that much higher? If you look at rep matches, the NEAFL team doesn't seem to be any better than the AFLQ teams that went around before.

You might find the better players just end up playing in the AFL reserves teams if they want more exposure. I believe now the 4 AFL clubs just top up with mostly under 18's in the NEAFL, something they wouldn't do in a national reserves comp.

 

[telsor]

Are they more likely to play NEAFL than play in WA/SA/Vic? That was basically my question - is the standard that much higher? If you look at rep matches, the NEAFL team doesn't seem to be any better than the AFLQ teams that went around before.

You might find the better players just end up playing in the AFL reserves teams if they want more exposure. I believe now the 4 AFL clubs just top up with mostly under 18's in the NEAFL, something they wouldn't do in a national reserves comp.

NEAFL would be a bit below WA/SA/VFL, but not THAT big a gap...Take that away and the gap between AFL and whatever is left would be huge.

 

[footyfan1978]

In the games I been to this year I am finding any pre-game stuff I sit at grounds so terrible it is hard to stomach for much longer. At the very least in Victoria with 10 clubs in the league we seriously got to get back to reserves game before the seniors. It is just an absolute joke the garbage they throw up now at games before a match.
It is seriously eroding at the whole experience as a football fan going to the football in person.
Really think it has to be a priority to get curtain raisers back before it is too late.
People like me are finding more reasons to just stay at home at times and see a game on tv.
The bang for buck you get as a football fan is seriously at it is lowest I seen in my time of going to football.
The experience of going to the football as a full day out to enjoy has been cut back to the equivalent of going to cinema for a couple of hours and you turn up just before the start and leave as soon as possible.

 

[deck]

In the games I been to this year I am finding any pre-game stuff I sit at grounds so terrible it is hard to stomach for much longer. At the very least in Victoria with 10 clubs in the league we seriously got to get back to reserves game before the seniors. It is just an absolute joke the garbage they throw up now at games before a match.
It is seriously eroding at the whole experience as a football fan going to the football in person.
Really think it has to be a priority to get curtain raisers back before it is too late.
People like me are finding more reasons to just stay at home at times and see a game on tv.
The bang for buck you get as a football fan is seriously at it is lowest I seen in my time of going to football.
The experience of going to the football as a full day out to enjoy has been cut back to the equivalent of going to cinema for a couple of hours and you turn up just before the start and leave as soon as possible.

It's not coming back as a curtain raiser as procedures and habits have changed. Clubs need access to the ground at least 1 hour pre game. Also a large percentage of supporters have reserved seating meaning there is no reason to arrive hours earlier to reserve the best spot. Collingwood and Carlton played a curtain raiser last year at the MCG and there was next to no one in the ground.

To be honest I prefer the system now particularly when games are played on opposite days. I can watch the seniors today then follow the 2nds tomorrow online. I have no interest in getting to the Football 4 hours before the seniors and neither do 95% of other supporters.

 

[footyfan1978]

I have no interest in getting to the Football 4 hours before the seniors and neither do 95% of other supporters.

Geez mate. Be about 1% that would get there 4 hours before the seniors..
Earliest I remember getting to footy is 11 am for 2 pm start and see full reserves game but most of the time it would be get there 12 to 1 pm and see a half or last quarter of reserves. It made for a great day out to see your young player in reserves and feel in touch with how your whole list is developing and then get on with the seniors game. Now there is no reason to turn up except 5 minutes before the start.

I would be happy to see the players lose their on ground warm up for the overall good of the game and have reserves on there. Players can warm up in the more modern bigger pre-game rooms somewhere. Most senior players used to have a quick run around at half time in reserves anyway just to get a feel for the surface they would be playing on that day. I don't even care if the reserves is not every week before the game but it should be the majority of weeks.

 

[deck]

Geez mate. Be about 1% that would get there 4 hours before the seniors..
Earliest I remember getting to footy is 11 am for 2 pm start and see full reserves game but most of the time it would be get there 12 to 1 pm and see a half or last quarter of reserves. It made for a great day out to see your young player in reserves and feel in touch with how your whole list is developing and then get on with the seniors game. Now there is no reason to turn up except 5 minutes before the start.

I would be happy to see the players lose their on ground warm up for the overall good of the game and have reserves on there. Players can warm up in the more modern bigger pre-game rooms somewhere. Most senior players used to have a quick run around at half time in reserves anyway just to get a feel for the surface they would be playing on that day. I don't even care if the reserves is not every week before the game but it should be the majority of weeks.

The on-field warm up isn't done for the fans so it won't be changing. In the past people turned up early to get a good spot. Now with a reserved seat people now turn up in the last 1/2 hour as your seat is still the same even if you turn up 2 hours early. The majority of people don't care about the reserves. Can you imagine the s**t stink when the MCG turf is chewed up because they played a extra 20-30 games a year on it. As much as you want it back it will not be as a curtain raiser to the seniors. You can call the comp what you want it just won't be happening at the MCG or Etihad Stadium.

 

[footyfan1978]

The on-field warm up isn't done for the fans so it won't be changing.

Nobody ever said it was done for the fans. Clearly it is not as it has become an issue of how to have curtain raisers. So just ditch it I say.
If enough of us want reserves back it needs warms ups done inside to allow for reserves games to finish at a good time.
You clearly do not care about curtain raisers but I assure you there are plenty more like me that do.
However I do agree at this stage it looks unlikely which is a real shame.

 

[1892]

While I don't like what's become of some traditional VFA clubs like Preston, Box Hill and soon Sandringham I like the relaxed local footy feel of VFL matches at traditional grounds and would hate a national reserves league if all matches were curtain raisers at big venues. I've seen Collingwood VFL games at the 'G and they're soulless compared to Victoria Park or even Olympic Park. The standard of footy is reasonably high and has improved over the last few years. The only thing that could be done better is to increase the funding to traditional VFA clubs, so they're not reliant on AFL alignments and can better compete with metro sides for players.

The tie up with the VFA/VFL is too entrenched now and if the AFL was to go down the national reserves path it would be the death of VFA/VFL and at least a couple of clubs. Stronger clubs like Williamstown, Port Melbourne and North Ballarat would survive in metro leagues.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Well said all of the State league competitions would be better off if a national reserves competition was established. It would allow all State league clubs to compete on a level playing field where the goal of all those clubs would be to win their respective competitions without having teams or players in their competitions with different agenda's such as player development for the AFL or being more concerned about selection in their AFL team. It would also mean that more local talent who were not on current AFL lists are given the opportunity a the highest standard possible (State league). AFL clubs would also benefit as they can develop their players in a high standard competition in anyway they like without depriving others players State league opportunities. Another benefit is that fans can support clubs without having divided loyalties so a Carlton fan for instance that lives and has always supported Frankston in the VFL can then support the AFL team the AFLReserves team and their local side without any confusion as to who they should support in a State League competition. The AFL should seriously be contemplating establishing a national reserves competition for the good of the game.

How would it be good for the game having 18 clubs playing in a comp that none of them care about winning? The exact problems that exist in state leagues will still occur as all clubs will need top up players who will try there guts out to win yet there AFL listed team mates won't care.

The only way I am for an AFL reserves is for it to be not a competition, just a scratch match every week which is how the clubs treat them. No finals, no ladder, no media.

The simple reality is that it will never happen.

 

[Navy2005]

How would it be good for the game having 18 clubs playing in a comp that none of them care about winning? The exact problems that exist in state leagues will still occur as all clubs will need top up players who will try there guts out to win yet there AFL listed team mates won't care.

The only way I am for an AFL reserves is for it to be not a competition, just a scratch match every week which is how the clubs treat them. No finals, no ladder, no media.

The simple reality is that it will never happen.

I think you would find that the 18 AFL clubs would care a whole lot more about winning an National Reserves competition wear they are representing their club against other AFL teams then they will ever care about competing in State League comps. It also equals out the competition for all the clubs who then get to play in the same competition. At the moment you have all the clubs competing at different levels, VFL, SANFL, WAFL are all different quality and then there is the NEAFL which is respectfully a much lower standard then the others.

The point about top up players lists should be increased simple as that. But even if that does not happen players would be very passionate to strut their stuff in front of all other AFL clubs in the hope of getting picked up by a club.

With AFL TV rights and the intoduction of a national womens league shows the AFL can more than afford to introduce/reintroduce a fully fledged AFL reserves competition and the sooner the better.

 

[telsor]

How would it be good for the game having 18 clubs playing in a comp that none of them care about winning? The exact problems that exist in state leagues will still occur as all clubs will need top up players who will try there guts out to win yet there AFL listed team mates won't care.

The only way I am for an AFL reserves is for it to be not a competition, just a scratch match every week which is how the clubs treat them. No finals, no ladder, no media.

The simple reality is that it will never happen.

All true, but the big advantage of it is it would take that not caring element out of the actual state league comps. In the WAFL, every game would be between teams trying to win (as opposed to having thier primary focus on 'development'), as opposed to only 3/4 of them.

If AFL lists were big enough to cover 2 clubs, I'd say it was a not brainer that this should happen, but as it is, you have to weigh up if the advantage of this is worth sucking 2-300 decent players out of 'real' competitions to make up the numbers in the AFL ressies (and the destruction of the NEAFL that would be a further consequence).

 

[Navy2005]

All true, but the big advantage of it is it would take that not caring element out of the actual state league comps. In the WAFL, every game would be between teams trying to win (as opposed to having thier primary focus on 'development'), as opposed to only 3/4 of them.

If AFL lists were big enough to cover 2 clubs, I'd say it was a not brainer that this should happen, but as it is, you have to weigh up if the advantage of this is worth sucking 2-300 decent players out of 'real' competitions to make up the numbers in the AFL ressies (and the destruction of the NEAFL that would be a further consequence).

Mate your dead right that the State League competitions will be left to people and clubs that care about it.

Lists should certainly be increased with the forming of a National Reserves Competition. Some would even argue given the amount of injuries occurring that should br happening anyway. But even more so with a reserved comp.

The other point you made about taking decent players out of the leagues all that would mean is more local talent woild be given more opportunity to compete at the State League level which mean clubs don't have to worry all the time about having to accommodate aligned AFL players coming in and out of their teams each week.

Lastly the destruction of NEAFL would be good for all concerned. Currently it is a league that only has a few local teams and 4 AFL reserves sides. It does nothing for local talent coming through and many good players simply can't commit to the travel requirements. The end of this league would be good for all the States and Territories involved.

 

[Colonial]

Mate your dead right that the State League competitions will be left to people and clubs that care about it.

Lists should certainly be increased with the forming of a National Reserves Competition. Some would even argue given the amount of injuries occurring that should br happening anyway. But even more so with a reserved comp.

The other point you made about taking decent players out of the leagues all that would mean is more local talent woild be given more opportunity to compete at the State League level which mean clubs don't have to worry all the time about having to accommodate aligned AFL players coming in and out of their teams each week.

Lastly the destruction of NEAFL would be good for all concerned. Currently it is a league that only has a few local teams and 4 AFL reserves sides. It does nothing for local talent coming through and many good players simply can't commit to the travel requirements. The end of this league would be good for all the States and Territories involved.

Absolutely regarding the NeAFL Give the money for NeAfl to the state leagues involved to boost those competition's

 

[telsor]

Lastly the destruction of NEAFL would be good for all concerned. Currently it is a league that only has a few local teams and 4 AFL reserves sides. It does nothing for local talent coming through and many good players simply can't commit to the travel requirements. The end of this league would be good for all the States and Territories involved.

Absolutely regarding the NeAFL Give the money for NeAfl to the state leagues involved to boost those competition's

(replying to Navy2005 , but it applies to both)

Take those 4 clubs (and ~100 players) out and what would be left?

The remaining '2nd tier/state' comp would be a significantly lower standard than most country leagues. What would that do for the 'good players who can't commit to the travel requirements'?

Break it into separate state comps and it'd be even lower.

 

[Colonial]

(replying to Navy2005 , but it applies to both)

Take those 4 clubs (and ~100 players) out and what would be left?

The remaining '2nd tier/state' comp would be a significantly lower standard than most country leagues. What would that do for the 'good players who can't commit to the travel requirements'?

Break it into separate state comps and it'd be even lower.

But with a national reserves to be inbetween.

 

[telsor]

But with a national reserves to be inbetween.

Available to what, maybe 40 full time players in each state?

There is also the funding issue...Most AFL money to the NEAFL wouldn't go to those states, it'd go to the national reserve comp...After all, it's mainly there currently in order to provide the 4 northern clubs with somewhere for their reserves to play. The NSW, QLD & NT 'state leagues' would get roughly the same funding as the regional comps they're equivalent to...ie, stuff all.

 

[Colonial]

Available to what, maybe 40 full time players in each state?

There is also the funding issue...Most AFL money to the NEAFL wouldn't go to those states, it'd go to the national reserve comp...After all, it's mainly there currently in order to provide the 4 northern clubs with somewhere for their reserves to play. The NSW, QLD & NT 'state leagues' would get roughly the same funding as the regional comps they're equivalent to...ie, stuff all.

Thats fine. We need a tier between our laughable "state" league and the AFL. Reserves will provide that.

 

[telsor]

Thats fine. We need a tier between our laughable "state" league and the AFL. Reserves will provide that.

No, you need a competition between those levels. Reserves wont provide that.

 

[Colonial]

No, you need a competition between those levels. Reserves wont provide that.

Yes it would and yes it does. Especially being national.

Just admit youre trying to protect the vfl.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

AFL reserves won't necessarily be a tier higher than existing state leagues, let's face it those players who don't get a game at an AFL club are not even stars at state league level. Kids with potential yes but that's about it, any premiership won by an AFL reserves side or aligned side is generally due to the seasoned men playing in the side to make up the numbers.
I would back any top 1-3 sides in the WAFL or SANFL to win against any AFL reserves side.
AFL reserves would be third tier footy I reckon.

 

[telsor]

Yes it would and yes it does. Especially being national.

Just admit youre trying to protect the vfl.

Go back and read what I've written.

I HATE the current VFL setup, because the AFL reserves teams are only in it for development...it's NOT a competition, because half the teams don't care if they win (well, they do, but it's well down the list of their priorities).

For the sake of Victorian football, I WANT there to be a separate reserves comp, so the VFL can reform into an actual state league competition (I'd dump the name and go back to calling it the VFA, but that's neither here nor there).

I can recognise however that it would be a disaster for NSW/QLD/NT, so for the sake of football development in those states, I think we shouldn't do it.

Rather than protecting the VFL, I'm arguing against it's interests to help the game in your state!

Your issue is that for all your big talk about development and growing the game up North, etc, you only care about what's good for your club, and guess what...They aren't the same thing.

 

[telsor]

AFL reserves won't necessarily be a tier higher than existing state leagues, let's face it those players who don't get a game at an AFL club are not even stars at state league level. Kids with potential yes but that's about it, any premiership won by an AFL reserves side or aligned side is generally due to the seasoned men playing in the side to make up the numbers.
I would back any top 1-3 sides in the WAFL or SANFL to win against any AFL reserves side.
AFL reserves would be third tier footy I reckon.

I think it'd mostly be below the (bigger) state leagues, and yes, largely for the reasons you mention. (oddly, it's get closer in standard as the year went on and the kids matured...).

Mind you, those leagues might drop off a little as well due to losing the players required as top ups for the reserves comp.

 

[Colonial]

Your issue is that for all your big talk about development and growing the game up North, etc, you only care about what's good for your club, and guess what...They aren't the same thing.

Actually no. As ive stated. Having the reserves inbetween would benefit the sort. As such there wouldnt be so big a leap between NeAFL and AFL.

I dont believe you when you say you are looking out for the north. You never have in any other thread ever.
So its strange that the one that would effect the traditional states the hardest and benefit the north is the one you are trying to push the barrel it would kill it up here. Which is just laughable.

 

[telsor]

Actually no. As ive stated. Having the reserves inbetween would benefit the sort. As such there wouldnt be so big a leap between NeAFL and AFL.

I dont believe you when you say you are looking out for the north. You never have in any other thread ever.
So its strange that the one that would effect the traditional states the hardest and benefit the north is the one you are trying to push the barrel it would kill it up here. Which is just laughable.

Just because I don't agree with your blinkered "Give my club everything, and it'll help, promise" attitude doesn't mean I don't care about growing the game up North.

Look past your club. How will killing off the NEAFL help? Do you really think football in Canberra would be better served by losing access to a 2nd tier team? What about NT? What about future growth? People talk about AFL teams in Cairns, or Newcastle for example, what about we start with an NEAFL team up there to give the better locals somewhere to develop into.

 

[Colonial]

Just because I don't agree with your blinkered "Give my club everything, and it'll help, promise" attitude doesn't mean I don't care about growing the game up North.

Look past your club. How will killing off the NEAFL help? Do you really think football in Canberra would be better served by losing access to a 2nd tier team? What about NT? What about future growth? People talk about AFL teams in Cairns, or Newcastle for example, what about we start with an NEAFL team up there to give the better locals somewhere to develop into.

Where have i said that?

Thats always you. Go straight to the "northern clubs want everything on a platter" routine. Such a sook.

Well just because i dont believe your blinkered view doesnt mean i dont have northn states footy to my heart.
The stronger it is up here the better for all 4 clubs.
Having a national reserves tier inbetween AFL and State leagues is whats best, in my opinion, for the game.