Kim Hagdorn
Club Legend
Yep 'Sticks' has got to go.
Carlton’s soul exorcised, I am disappointed
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In fairness to them they were completely broke (as well as devoid of on field talent). The desperate times call for desperate measures. But I agree now that they are having board change they need to have an open and fair process not one based on who will stump up the most cash.
mcgarnacle
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 2, 2003
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well said.
these two appointments highlight that the blues have been more focused on trying to get #17 before Essendon, rather than anything sustainable beyond this.
If Malthouse is willing to rebuild the club's football dept from the ground up, and stick it out and not bail half way through (given his age) then keep him on. However, the club needs to evaluate its direction promptly and ensure that there is a strategic fit between a new longer term focus with what Mick intends to do and whether he's got the skills to achieve it.
The focus of the club has largely been on the team and the thoughts of a premiership possibly around the corner, rather than the long-term strength of the club itself.
Carlton's poor ability at the moment has nothing to do with the current coach.
Our drafting history has been atrocious between 2009-2012. The last good midfielder we drafted was in 2006 (Gibbs).
None of our talls have come from the national draft.
Hardly any one we have taken in the last 9 years from the national draft is any good, yet it's Malthouse's fault somehow
.
Ratten's list management was a little part of the problem. Too many players who couldn't play were given new contracts. Used too few draft picks and kept too many top up players/list cloggers. Ratten was an average judge of young talent.
Wayne Hughes our recruiter was average at best, when we were really bad and had a heap of early picks he did ok but as soon as we rose up the ladder he drafted noone.
Football is a really really simple game that is over complicated a lot, especially on here. The team with the best footballers on the park wins 90% of the time, the other 10% accounts for fitness and injury etc. Carlton have not had the best or fittest footballers on the ground yet and that comes down to drafting.
Malthouse and Rogers (current recruiter) need time to over see the restructuring of the list and rebuilding of the starting 22.
Our drafting history has been atrocious between 2009-2012. The last good midfielder we drafted was in 2006 (Gibbs).
None of our talls have come from the national draft.
Hardly any one we have taken in the last 9 years from the national draft is any good, yet it's Malthouse's fault somehow
.Ratten's list management was a little part of the problem. Too many players who couldn't play were given new contracts. Used too few draft picks and kept too many top up players/list cloggers. Ratten was an average judge of young talent.
Wayne Hughes our recruiter was average at best, when we were really bad and had a heap of early picks he did ok but as soon as we rose up the ladder he drafted noone.
Football is a really really simple game that is over complicated a lot, especially on here. The team with the best footballers on the park wins 90% of the time, the other 10% accounts for fitness and injury etc. Carlton have not had the best or fittest footballers on the ground yet and that comes down to drafting.
Malthouse and Rogers (current recruiter) need time to over see the restructuring of the list and rebuilding of the starting 22.
Whether Malthouse was/is the best coach for Carlton, to me it always appeared he took the job for all the wrong reasons, the main one to stick it up Collingwood. I think his motivation was all wrong, and Carlton should have given the appointment a lot more thought then they appeared to.
To me, the Malthouse argument is very similar to Wallace at Richmond. Both went into the job thinking they had better lists than they did, and it took until the second or third season before they suddenly realized that a lot of re-building needed to be done. If Carlton has learnt one thing from this (and I doubt they have), it would be that the days of the quick fix is well and truly over. Time to roll up the sleeves and muck into some hard work.
Military_man
Premiership Player
Poor player management has put us in this situation along with keeping that Hughes as a recruiter . Between Hughes and Ratten they destroyed Carlton with thier poor draft picks. Thank god both have now gone and hopefully Malthouse can sack half the side at the end of the year and recruit some good players with a view to be strong again withing 5 years. We don't have much to offer as trades as we got hardly any talent. most of our players wouldn't get a game at another club. They are virtually a step above amateur players. Carlton really need to clean out the dead wood and get some decent players otherwise we are just gonna be easy beats for along time.. Its gonna be a long season.
bombermick
Norm Smith Medallist
Who are the older types that Carlton fans would move on (that have currency), in order to improve your draft position?
Hughes picked some diamonds in the rough like Garlett, Betts and Jacobs, but that's going back a long way now.
Hughes picked some diamonds in the rough like Garlett, Betts and Jacobs, but that's going back a long way now.
Military_man
Premiership Player
I think the Players Hughes recruited that had any talent was a fluke. We all seen what he done to Fremantle and they have only recently recovered. Sad to say but carlton would now be at its lowest point in the history of the club. Another spoon coming our way
bombermick
Norm Smith Medallist
They've made the same mistake that Essendon has only recently got out of. Genuinely still believed they were a powerhouse club, a good club, when they were anything but.
edit: Hurry up and sort your s**t out Blues. It's hard to hate a rival that can't beat Melbourne.
edit: Hurry up and sort your s**t out Blues. It's hard to hate a rival that can't beat Melbourne.
mcgarnacle
Norm Smith Medallist
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move on murphy. too small and too slow.
Must've been how Blues fans were feeling about Essendon up until last year!
Woodson
Former AE commish
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Good point… look how far advanced GWS have come in two short years.. sure, they loaded up with experience which was essential to keep them 'in the moment' more competitive but much of their list is developing talent… opposite end of the spectrum is Richmond who re-load with rejects / off-casts, the better word.. you can't expect improvement from stagnant players who don't have adequate skills. The depth of teams is becoming limited each year as the senior vets lose their lustre staying with the same program.. with the way the AFL FA structure… it's flawed already… that should be FIVE YEARS.. that's enough time to determine if a player is a keeper or a journeyman.. more off season trades along with a MID season trade window introduced… SPICE the COMP up… gets ridiculously stale mid-season and moreso towards late July onwards to the bottom 5 teams.
Woodson
Former AE commish
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Pseudo Captain..
Hughes' form in the rookie draft was pretty good, it's what kept him in the job for so long.
We drafted good honest players with early picks or the wrong player and missed out in the second and third round year after year while Hughes was our recruiter. Our list is ordinary, the coach has a lot of work to do putting the pieces together. We have drafted ok the last couple of seasons so we aren't as far behind in our rebuild as some may think but there is still ways to go.
Malthouse is pretty good at turning over a list like ours, he did it with Collingwood around 2004/2005 and gradually built up to 2009-2010 when they were very good. Remember in 2004-2005 they were an old team and a rabble much like ours with players who were too young or too old. It can be done, but our recruiting department have to be on the ball from here on.
My Rebuild plan
Keep
Murphy - Copping all the attention in a talent-less midfield and still going ok.
Gibbs - It's up to him, may very well leave at the end of the season which will net us a good early pick. Unfairly bagged, accept he's a good honest player and still one of our best. Not stressed about losing Gibbs.
Judd - Need him there for leadership and kids to play around.
Buckley - long way to go, is the future, needs to do better, but showing plenty.
Simpson - same as Judd, leader.
Lucas - Has no/little trade value, still a young player, has ability, just a poor mindset.
Menzel - Has ability, will be a player.
Watson - Going to need him, feel he's going to struggle but he has some ability and we are going to be ratshit. So far a very good VFL player who can't get in the team.
Yarran - good player. Been good this year.
Mclean - has no trade value, going to need hard bodies with these kids, would throw around at trade period just in case.
Docherty - Will be a good player for us.
Cripps - will be a good player.
Giles - has ability, needs to go on with it, should be a good player.
Holman - has ability and an attitude, just a bit raw.
Henderson - good player.
McInness - give him one more year, needs to do more, has ability.
Bell - When we are good enough he won't be but we need a big body like his to protect the kids, is capable enough but no trade value.
Graham - desperate for AFL games, not convinced he'll be a star but will be a capable player.
Everitt - best skilled carlton player, needs good players to play around.
Curnow - going to need a big body like him, his ball handling is ok, disposal is average.
Thomas - Good player, struggling in a crap team.
Jamison - hope to get years out of him.
Tuohy - Playing badly but can play.
Carrazzo - need a senior guy like him around, if he finishes by going poorly then he can retire. May Retire any way. Maybe better off retiring.
Casboult - going to need him because we have no one else yet.
Trade
Walker - One of our better players but in the wrong age group, could land a high pick, keep otherwise. Has trade value.
Kreuzer - would only trade for a good price, very early draft pick but very very unlikely to get it. Big guys who don't mark it just aren't players who influence matches. Body is ordinary. Probably worth keeping seeing he has no trade value, time to trade has past.
Robinson - Probably has poor trade value but his skills are just far too poor and he can't run. Would keep him if we couldn't get a trade as we will need senior bodies during the rebuild.
Warnock - If anyone wants to give us a third round pick or better then can have him.
Garlett - Front runner, no physical aspects, if no trade is available then keep. Will have purple patches.
Armfield - Keep unless we can get a third rounder or better.
Delist/retire
Rowe - not good enough, poor hands.
Waite - Terrific career but he's done.
White - average player who's finished.
Ellard - Not up to it. Good ordinary player.
Scotland - can still play but he's nearly finished and we need the room.
Undecided
Temay - needs to start playing good consistent footy.
Bootsma - has skills, attitude and approach are questionable.
Strategy
- Trade for draft picks.
- Aim for 3-5 years down the track.
- Avoid free agency
- Get as many draft picks as we can over the next few years in the first three rounds.
- Hope that our recruiting is better than it has been
- Embrace the coach, his plan and give him everything he wants/needs
- Can't de-list all the good old players, that needs to be staggered, that's how Malthouse rebuilt Collingwood.
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Did I miss this?
Woodson
Former AE commish
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You've got a great idea here but I'll let you know that bringing in 'filler FA players' for a couple seasons is all that's needed to cover a starting position as experienced vets provide temporary value… in the NFL… there are many ONE YEAR contracts.. this is something that needs to happen in the AFL.. see if these guys can plug a hole. Not all kids are Joel Selwood calibre. Draft picks are project players… can't take too many in any one given year because the draft is a crapshoot..
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You're a North fan and you lot haven't bottomed out in a long time, sometimes 1 big draft is all it takes and you get 3-4-5 200 gamers, but it is all luck. A team like Sydney relies on recycled players and trades mainly but they have drafted well in the lower echelons of the draft also. Geelong, Collingwood, Hawthorn, St Kilda and the Dogs all bottomed out somewhere between 99-05 and were able to draft well and built solid squads from the basis of drafting, but yeah all it depends on the recruiting guys.
If Gibbs goes we likely get an early FA compensation pick, if we pick up a FA we lose it, I would prefer the pick. Under the right circumstances yes, a free agent could be good but they tend to be grossly over priced. We aren't likely to do a lot over the next few years, I think we have the senior players already capable of playing a few more seasons.
Carlton need to pick up good players with their first round pick every time and hit more than miss in the second round and get a few steals in the third round and get those extra draft picks from trades and leaving free agents. It will get easier as we finish lower then it will get harder and this is where we still need to continue to draft well.
MightyHawks
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Who did Carlton interview for the job as coach?
- Oct 14, 2006
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MightyHawks
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Did they actually interview him though or Kern?
It was one of those mickey mouse processes where they pretended to be interested in a few options but really only wanted Mick
I don't know that, I just recall thinking the appointment was a hasty one. It was as though the thought process was, "Ratten's not winning us flags, Malthouse won one at Collingwood, let's appoint him".
And more importantly, get the player you need, not the player every says is better.
- Oct 14, 2006
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I am not sure but I bet you are right...
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