Christopher Pyne!!!

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SEN_Fan said:
Volunteering is a must if you want a job. You say networking is about luck, well why not improve your chances by meeting people and having something to add to you CV over students who go to uni and not do anything else. Paid work whatever it be Woolies shows employers many things - you can rock up on time, you have problem solving skills, you can communicate with people, maybe some management skills if you are there long enough, you know the work routine...plus you earn money.

No they do not, my experience is limited to business degrees where masters degrees are completely worthless. None of my closest friends have got a masters degree and they have jobs in their chosen fields. I am a recent graduate so I would know a lot more than you.

I never said they weren't looking hard enough, they simply didn't prepare themselves well enough. If you are just relying on a piece of paper to find you a job then you are going to have a very tough time.

-Paid work
-Volunteering - Maybe an internship
-Piece of paper
-Good grades

A combination for success.
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Whatever happened to plan once floated by Abbott about allowing people to volunteer and receive credits that could help pay off their HECS debt? He took it to the 2010 election and it is something that was well received, but it hasn't seen the light of day since.
 
SEN_Fan said:
Volunteering is a must if you want a job. You say networking is about luck, well why not improve your chances by meeting people and having something to add to you CV over students who go to uni and not do anything else. Paid work whatever it be Woolies shows employers many things - you can rock up on time, you have problem solving skills, you can communicate with people, maybe some management skills if you are there long enough, you know the work routine...plus you earn money.

No they do not, my experience is limited to business degrees where masters degrees are completely worthless. None of my closest friends have got a masters degree and they have jobs in their chosen fields. I am a recent graduate so I would know a lot more than you.

I never said they weren't looking hard enough, they simply didn't prepare themselves well enough. If you are just relying on a piece of paper to find you a job then you are going to have a very tough time.

-Paid work
-Volunteering - Maybe an internship
-Piece of paper
-Good grades

A combination for success.
Click to expand...

The issue at the moment, and it has been for some time, is that you can have all the enthusiasm you want, you can volunteer all that you want, but most jobs require you to job through hoops to get basic entry-level work. If you think it's hard to get a job with a degree, try getting one without. I am unemployed at the moment, I am looking for work, and I have seen basic jobs advertised that required 2 years experience. Many job ads explicitly say that volunteer experience doesn't count.

The economy is slowly, but surely, coming to a standstill. At the end of the day, if a student gets a uni degree, and then cant get a job, it is the Australian taxpayer that loses out, not the student. This is what many people seem to forgot. HECS debt is not crippling at all, it's the easiest debt you can get because you can literally never pay it back and no-one will give a stuff.

The only one that loses out is the Australian taxpayer.

The best thing for this country is that we have a recession, and a crash in house prices.

The government will then be in a position where it can raise the GST and bring in more revenue, in turn growing the economy and giving us more jobs and more affordable housing.

Investors will be hurt, but as a sports trader, the first rule you learn is not to play the game if you dont know the rules.
 
Please post some examples of jobs ads that say volunteering experience does not count.

People don't realise jobs adds only ask for the 'ideal' candidate, very rarely will anyone meet every single criteria that an employer is asking for. What you have to do is sell yourself. Use your volunteering, internships, good grades, sports teams, degree, personal projects, unrelated paid work etc. You need to differentiate yourself from the rest.

Remember something like 70% of jobs are not advertised.
Volunteering
Sports
Internships etc.
More people you meet and can impress, the better your chance of getting a job.


It is not impossible, many people are currently doing it.

Sure its fall-proof but you are not trying to get a job if you aren't doing these things, instead of blaming others and the economy look at what you are doing.
 

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SEN_Fan said:
http://www.youthcentral.vic.gov.au/jobs-careers/how-to-find-a-job/the-hidden-job-market
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2013/08/12/6-ways-to-crack-the-hidden-job-market/

:rolleyes:
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My bad, I said examples, and you misunderstood.
I meant factual evidence.
I said to "post some examples" because that's what you asked of another poster. I assumed when you wrote that, you meant that you were asking for evidence.

If you weren't, and you didn't understand my post, let me be clear;
Please post evidence that 70% of Australian jobs are not advertised. And that the only reason that there is any unemployment, is because people aren't chasing up internships, or volunteer work...
 
CM86 said:
My bad, I said examples, and you misunderstood.
I meant factual evidence.
I said to "post some examples" because that's what you asked of another poster. I assumed when you wrote that, you meant that you were asking for evidence.

If you weren't, and you didn't understand my post, let me be clear;
Please post evidence that 70% of Australian jobs are not advertised. And that the only reason that there is any unemployment, is because people aren't chasing up internships, or volunteer work...
Click to expand...

Are those sites not enough? Did you go to uni, what on earth did they teach you?


How do you expect to compete with people who volunteer, work, get internships, extra-curricula's with the same piece of paper you have. I have not said this is fall proof, however if you haven't done these things and don't have a job then well, have you really done everything possible...instead of blaming the economy or every company wanting years of experience you need to recognise your mistakes and take action. I'd hazard a guess the grads who do these things are the ones getting the jobs, it's not impossible.
 
SEN_Fan said:
Please post some examples of jobs ads that say volunteering experience does not count.

People don't realise jobs adds only ask for the 'ideal' candidate, very rarely will anyone meet every single criteria that an employer is asking for. What you have to do is sell yourself. Use your volunteering, internships, good grades, sports teams, degree, personal projects, unrelated paid work etc. You need to differentiate yourself from the rest.

Remember something like 70% of jobs are not advertised.
Volunteering
Sports
Internships etc.
More people you meet and can impress, the better your chance of getting a job.


It is not impossible, many people are currently doing it.

Sure its fall-proof but you are not trying to get a job if you aren't doing these things, instead of blaming others and the economy look at what you are doing.
Click to expand...

Give me a break mate? You think Im going to go onto seek and upload the example of the ad. I saw it my own eyes. Im telling you, the ad explicitly said down the bottom, with an underlined emphasis, that volunteer experience did not count as towards the minimal experience required. You either believe me, or call me a liar.

The job wasn't a high level job either. It was a basic entry level position in Qld in a job that was paying 25 dollars an hour.

All I am saying is, that if a uni graduate doesnt get a job, then it's the taxpayer's loss isn't it? A graduate won't have a debt collector banging on their door threatening to sue for unpaid debts will they?

Try getting that from a bank.
 
SEN_Fan said:
Are those sites not enough? Did you go to uni, what on earth did they teach you?


How do you expect to compete with people who volunteer, work, get internships, extra-curricula's with the same piece of paper you have. I have not said this is fall proof, however if you haven't done these things and don't have a job then well, have you really done everything possible...instead of blaming the economy or every company wanting years of experience you need to recognise your mistakes and take action. I'd hazard a guess the grads who do these things are the ones getting the jobs, it's not impossible.
Click to expand...

What about the med students who didn't get internships with hospitals? So their degree is worthless. Something is seriously wrong when you have students doing a MBBS and then not being able to get an intern placement in a hospital.
 
SEN_Fan said:
Are those sites not enough? Did you go to uni, what on earth did they teach you?


How do you expect to compete with people who volunteer, work, get internships, extra-curricula's with the same piece of paper you have. I have not said this is fall proof, however if you haven't done these things and don't have a job then well, have you really done everything possible...instead of blaming the economy or every company wanting years of experience you need to recognise your mistakes and take action. I'd hazard a guess the grads who do these things are the ones getting the jobs, it's not impossible.
Click to expand...
I asked you for evidence that 70% of Australian jobs are not advertised. You give me a Forbes opinion piece "Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.", and Vic youth job finder.
Neither of which had any evidence, or stats, or references. Just statements.
Just fluff...

How you got through uni by citing opinion pieces as evidence, I'm not sure...

And it's "fool proof"...
 
Sports Trader said:
Give me a break mate? You think Im going to go onto seek and upload the example of the ad. I saw it my own eyes. Im telling you, the ad explicitly said down the bottom, with an underlined emphasis, that volunteer experience did not count as towards the minimal experience required. You either believe me, or call me a liar.

The job wasn't a high level job either. It was a basic entry level position in Qld in a job that was paying 25 dollars an hour.

All I am saying is, that if a uni graduate doesnt get a job, then it's the taxpayer's loss isn't it? A graduate won't have a debt collector banging on their door threatening to sue for unpaid debts will they?

Try getting that from a bank.
Click to expand...

The issue at the moment, and it has been for some time, is that you can have all the enthusiasm you want, you can volunteer all that you want, but most jobs require you to job through hoops to get basic entry-level work. If you think it's hard to get a job with a degree, try getting one without. I am unemployed at the moment, I am looking for work, and I have seen basic jobs advertised that required 2 years experience. Many job ads explicitly say that volunteer experience doesn't count.

Yes I am calling you a liar.

Yes it is the tax payers loss when it is the graduates fault because they did not adequately prepare themselves to enter the workforce.
 
Sports Trader said:
What about the med students who didn't get internships with hospitals? So their degree is worthless. Something is seriously wrong when you have students doing a MBBS and then not being able to get an intern placement in a hospital.
Click to expand...

Yes this does suck but these unemployed people have to ask themselves, why is everyone else getting a go and not me. Positions in highly specialised fields should be linked to industry but people would sook about that like they do everything else.
 
CM86 said:
I asked you for evidence that 70% of Australian jobs are not advertised. You give me a Forbes opinion piece "Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.", and Vic youth job finder.
Neither of which had any evidence, or stats, or references. Just statements.
Just fluff...

How you got through uni by citing opinion pieces as evidence, I'm not sure...

And it's "fool proof"...
Click to expand...

Keep using all the excuses you want for not having a job.

Yes these are opinions from experts which on bigfooty is evidence enough, or do you want peer reviewed journal articles?
 

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SEN_Fan said:
The issue at the moment, and it has been for some time, is that you can have all the enthusiasm you want, you can volunteer all that you want, but most jobs require you to job through hoops to get basic entry-level work. If you think it's hard to get a job with a degree, try getting one without. I am unemployed at the moment, I am looking for work, and I have seen basic jobs advertised that required 2 years experience. Many job ads explicitly say that volunteer experience doesn't count.

Yes I am calling you a liar.

Yes it is the tax payers loss when it is the graduates fault because they did not adequately prepare themselves to enter the workforce.
Click to expand...
I feel for you can imagine how sucky it is trying to find work when there isn't a heap available. IN a tight market grad roles disappear because they aren't huge value adds to an organisation, they are an investment in the organisations future.

Can I ask what degree/career you are looking at?
 
SEN_Fan said:
Keep using all the excuses you want for not having a job.

Yes these are opinions from experts which on bigfooty is evidence enough, or do you want peer reviewed journal articles?
Click to expand...
Again, I try to draw your attention to the fact that I have asked you for evidence of your statement of "70% of jobs are hidden", or whatever.
You made the statement, and back it with two nothing web posts...

Now you're trying to say I asked you for evidence for your stated percentage, because I want an excuse to not have a job?

.... Well... I'm not saying that either of us is unemployed... but one of us posts a heck of a lot more during the week than the other...
I'm sure you must be able to post so much during the day, because you're a multi-billionaire, running your own business, and live internationally.
Or some such bullshit.

Whatever the case. You stated a fact, I asked for evidence, and you keep ducking it.

You're a familiar poster, but I haven't worked out who you are yet.
 
Happy Mastenator said:
I feel for you can imagine how sucky it is trying to find work when there isn't a heap available. IN a tight market grad roles disappear because they aren't huge value adds to an organisation, they are an investment in the organisations future.

Can I ask what degree/career you are looking at?
Click to expand...

Graduate with a business related degree in the middle of the gfc...got a job before I finished...
 
CM86 said:
Again, I try to draw your attention to the fact that I have asked you for evidence of your statement of "70% of jobs are hidden", or whatever.
You made the statement, and back it with two nothing web posts...

Now you're trying to say I asked you for evidence for your stated percentage, because I want an excuse to not have a job?

.... Well... I'm not saying that either of us is unemployed... but one of us posts a heck of a lot more during the week than the other...
I'm sure you must be able to post so much during the day, because you're a multi-billionaire, running your own business, and live internationally.
Or some such bullshit.

Whatever the case. You stated a fact, I asked for evidence, and you keep ducking it.

You're a familiar poster, but I haven't worked out who you are yet.
Click to expand...

What exactly do you want me to show, studies of people asking how they got their current job? Hell in my current office of about 20, in the 5 years I have been here, we have never advertised, picked up several new staff including grads since then....

I post generally late at night, not sure what you are on about.
 
SEN_Fan said:
Yes this does suck but these unemployed people have to ask themselves, why is everyone else getting a go and not me. Positions in highly specialised fields should be linked to industry but people would sook about that like they do everything else.
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Im beginning to think you are a troll.

Medical students NEED to do an intern year to qualify to be registered as doctors. The issue is that some bright spark decided to increase med school places, without increasing intern places in public hospitals.

Hence, you cant fit 2 into 1.

You are a troll. You know little about what you are talking about.
 
Gough said:
So you have less than ten years experience and you know it all. Back in yer box son.
Click to expand...

I do not think I know it all but I know enough from experience to know the things you need to do if you really want to get a job.
 
Sports Trader said:
Im beginning to think you are a troll.

Medical students NEED to do an intern year to qualify to be registered as doctors. The issue is that some bright spark decided to increase med school places, without increasing intern places in public hospitals.

Hence, you cant fit 2 into 1.

You are a troll. You know little about what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

I said link it too industry, that would make sense.

But with most things in life, by making less places people will have a sook about it.
 
Sports Trader said:
Taxpayers lose out. Not the student.
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Yes the taxpayer has wasted more money & the community loses out because our GP pool is getting older & we will suffer in the next 5-10 years.This is a great example of the real weakness in our political system. The parties are so self interested in power that they cannot focus on problems that will become apparent in the medium to long term.
 
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