List Mgmt. Collingwood needs to improve the top part of the list not the bottom six

[sr36]

Just by way of example these two by definition are not elite based on what you say are their flaws. They can certainly improve but to be elite is unlikely in these circumstances.

Whilst fast flashy players are generally viewed as having huge upside and the potential to become elite, it's often the footy smart hard workers who are often viewed as having little upside, who actually improve and become elite. 10 years ago, Swan, Mitchell, Watson, J. Kennedy and Enright were not considered golden boys with massive futures. They were generally seen as having limited upside.

 

[mike123]

Read my posts...



I acknowledged that there will come a time that players like Toovey and Blair will be overtaken but noted that throughout this season none of them were competing for the same position/role so it's irrelevant



I nominated the teams for rounds 20-22 "as off the top of my head as I think all 6 played". But if it's that important to you then I'm happy to concede that Tooves didn't play round 22, Schaz didn't play rounds 20 & 21, Maynard didn't play round 20 and all 6 didn't play together but only because 1 of your bottom 6 (Tooves) missed 1 game through injury however as I said, all 6 did play in those rounds



No mention of Tooves there, just made the point I'm happy to refer to a side that smacks the Cats anytime.

As for other players missing, yep injuries happen. It's why you maintain depth and when you go into a season with 19 players having played more than 50 games, experienced depth like Toovey, Blair and Goldsack is all the more critical. Hate to think where we'd have finished on the ladder without them this season.

Each of those posts was specifically in response to your posts and each one took a slightly different tangent. That to me is shifting the goal posts.

I'll admit, I shouldn't have asked this quetion before properly establishing the goals post.

But I stated before, I was talking about more than six players, just couldn't have been bothered naming them all at once which was my mistake.

Can you name your best 22 that fits them all in?

This is my definitive list of who I believe can push into the top 6 of our top 6 De Goey, Broomhead, Marsh, Maynard, Scahrenberg and Moore.

And this is the list of our players who I think should be pushed out Blair, Goldsack, Frost, Toovey, Macaffer and White.

If you still think that all these players can fit in the same side can you please name it for me.

 

[MarkT2]

I agree with the bolded, but I think were are building a strong foundation for a flag. We just need to add more guys with class and we'll be fine.

Can't most clubs say that?

 

[TradeDraft]

Yes, the thing is though, he isn't going to replace one of our top 6 players though...

What do you mean. He be our 3rd Best Player behind Pendles and Cloke

 

[MarkT2]

Whilst fast flashy players are generally viewed as having huge upside and the potential to become elite, it's often the footy smart hard workers who are often viewed as having little upside, who actually improve and become elite. 10 years ago, Swan, Mitchell, Watson, J. Kennedy and Enright were not considered golden boys with massive futures. They were generally seen as having limited upside.

That can certainly happen but they generally don't have major awareness/decision making/skill flaws. Watson was an average kick at best and improved a lot. He's an exception. Swan became elite in spite of his sometime erratic kicking. He's also an exception. Meanwhile there are a lot of elite players that shone out early. Our 2010 flag side had Pendlebury and Thomas who were drafted early and looked good from early on. It also had a number of former rookie list player who became good solid players as well as the likes of swan who just got better year after year. He never looked a mug though. If you recall his early games, while he didn't dominate he always looked to have something.

It's a simplification to ascribe formulas to any of this really but I just don't see the play readers and class in the quantities that will carry us through to be a serious contender even in a couple of years. The list needs a lot of work. That's largely because we have le too much slip through. For all the trades etc we ended up with Grundy who we would have had anyway and De Goey who should add seriously to a premiership tilt. Maybe Broomhead will be another. Crisp will be handy and Greenwood might make a contribution but he's a dime a dozen midfielder and that was clearly North's view.

 

[mike123]

What do you mean. He be our 3rd Best Player behind Pendles and Cloke

Exactly, effectively pushing everyone else down the order till the last guy who is bottom six gets pushed out.

 

[mike123]

Can't most clubs say that?

Yes, now its up to our club to start actually doing it.

Getting Treloar is a good start.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It's a very good point but maybe I'm old fashioned in that I just don't see a second chance should be on the table for these two players, who purposely, despite all advice from the club over the years, chose to take a such a high risk.

I know some here like to use the line that every other 20-something in Melbourne has done drugs before - live a little, they aren't robots! Also the fact a few more on the Pies list probably got away with it as well. But the way I see it, if they want a culture of success - they can't be a charity case / rehab clinic and afford to have players with less than professional attitudes. One of them was in the leadership group pretty recently for instance.

Personally I think getting players on board with an elite professional sporting attitude would go far more towards success than an upgrade on Blair, Toovey etc.. It seems to be heading that way too with what Buckley is doing with the list so I can't complain.

This topic has been done to death but they accidentally took performance enhancing drugs and therefore the club has taken into account the fact that they werent deliberately cheating. If they were guilty of cocaine use only they would have anonymously been on a single strike and nobody would have known the difference. These players apart from that single incident have presented a pretty clean slate in terms of behaviour and professionalism.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

If they were guilty of cocaine use only they would have anonymously been on a single strike and nobody would have known the difference. These players apart from that single incident have presented a pretty clean slate in terms of behaviour and professionalism.

You obviously missed the part where cocaine/ecstasy is often cut with clem.