David Buttifant to blame for injuries?

[Number 10]

Before I start I just want to fully acknowledge the fact that this guy has done some amazing things with our playing list, especially under mick in 2010.

But, this is the second year in a row that we have been behind pretty much the whole competition in terms of injury. Is he to blame? And if so, is it time to put the pressure on him or find a new health guru...? Our injury list is appalling when u take into account Hartley, Young and Seedsman aren't mentioned on our injury list.

 

[mattys123]

I think it's a bit harsh to pick out just Buttifant, as our sports science department is apparently the biggest in the AFL at the moment, but he is the chief of that department, so maybe the buck stops with him.

Just a thought, North Melbourne will have no best 22 players missing this game through injury, yet they spend far less on their fitness department then we do.

So that begs the question, WTF are we spending all our money on?

 

[sr36]

Steve Dank?

 

[76woodenspooners]

Our injuries have been terrible in 2012 and now in 2013.

But in 2011 and prior to that we did OK with injuries.

If you have a look at what changed between 2011 and 2012, you wouldn't come up with the answer 'David Buttifant'

 

[Number 10]

I think it's a bit harsh to pick out just Buttifant, as our sports science department is apparently the biggest in the AFL at the moment, but he is the chief of that department, so maybe the buck stops with him.

Just a thought, North Melbourne will have no best 22 players missing this game through injury, yet they spend far less on their fitness department then we do.

So that begs the question, WTF are we spending all our money on?

Last time I saw they had 2(?) injuries in all. And your question is exactly part of my worry with Buttifant- how come someone who I am sure would be getting paid far less than him, have, for 2 years in a row, an unmeasurable record against him.

 

[Swooop]

Interesting view Number 10, so far he's stayed above the line where any doubt has been cast on him.

My take on things, rightly or wrongly, is that too much positive or negative emotion is cast on the sports science guys.

I think there's a large element of luck involved in most of the injuries. Not saying at all they have no role in injury prevention, but just think it's a fair bit overstated.

I do agree getting hydration and nutrition right are very important, as is idendifying the right amount of training as opposed to overtraining, but this has more to do with peak performance in general, rather than injuries per se.

 

[blaze036]

I am a little bit worried about how hard we have pushed our 1st year players; grundy has broken down with a bad back, ramsay has twanged a groin, and broomhead has been struck down by illness that can be caused by pushing your body to the limits. Only kennedy has made it through !

I do think butters is great though in general, maybe too hard on the new kids?

 

[Number 10]

Our injuries have been terrible in 2012 and now in 2013.

But in 2011 and prior to that we did OK with injuries.

If you have a look at what changed between 2011 and 2012, you wouldn't come up with the answer 'David Buttifant'

I know what you are saying and Buckley has pushed for more fitness. But in the end Buttifants job is to control this aspect of the group. Ultimately, it's his program's that the club run, not Buckley's.

Malthouse spoke most highly of Butters, going as far as to single him out as THE most important person at the club in the lead up to the 2nd 2010 grand final at the drawn grand final dinner. Maybe he has lost a bit of ticker since his best mate has departed?

I'm open to other theories to our horrible injury run, but I thought it was time to put the spotlight on him (on this board), as I'm sure most of you, like I am, are bloody unhappy about our injuries, which have seemlessly continued on just as badly as last year.

 

[JOELY]

and broomhead has been struck down by illness that can be caused by pushing your body to the limits.

you mean in the nightclubs?

 

[Gone Critical]

Sorry sometimes A+B doesn't = C. Knees and shoulders of 2012 can't be prevented by your sports scientist. Neither could Daisy or Youngs ankle. Dids is aging so hard to prevent. Fas ? whats going on. Krak has other issues it seems. Harley shoulder, Reids knee ans Broomheads Glandular are not preventable. There is nothing in this theory

Prob sports science gets over rated when things go well so it's no surprise they cop it unfairly when things go wrong

 

[doppleganger]

Our injuries have been terrible in 2012 and now in 2013.

But in 2011 and prior to that we did OK with injuries.

If you have a look at what changed between 2011 and 2012, you wouldn't come up with the answer 'David Buttifant'

Possible answers - Buckley? Swings & Round-A-bouts? Losing the edge with our rotation policy?

The entire narrative / direction of the footy dept is set out by the head coach...ultimately Butters would be working to directions set by Bucks, perhaps Bucks direction is at fault?

A lot of it is about luck, pushing players to the limit to improve endurance, strength, balance etc. you have to put strain on their bodies....will result in injuries, we had a good run and are now copping our whack (like all clubs eventually do).

Rotations, we were the early adopters...we benefited when our players were fresher than the opposition, but now all sides rotate manically, so advantage no longer there.

I would have to agree that Butters himself aint the reason we have a rough trot with injuries.

 

[jmac70]

The guy is generally regarded as a leader in his field and has done a remarkable job for the club. We are lucky to have him.

 

[Markfs]

The guy is generally regarded as a leader in his field and has done a remarkable job for the club. We are lucky to have him.

Maybe we should be hanging the recruiting staff for recruiting weak players


or maybe we should hang kevin rose for moving us to the MCG and having the players train on that hard grass


or maybe we should hang the supporters for going to training and clapping the players so they try too hard....

 

[Number 10]

Possible answers - Buckley? Swings & Round-A-bouts? Losing the edge with our rotation policy?

The entire narrative / direction of the footy dept is set out by the head coach...ultimately Butters would be working to directions set by Bucks, perhaps Bucks direction is at fault?

A lot of it is about luck, pushing players to the limit to improve endurance, strength, balance etc. you have to put strain on their bodies....will result in injuries, we had a good run and are now copping our whack (like all clubs eventually do).

Rotations, we were the early adopters...we benefited when our players were fresher than the opposition, but now all sides rotate manically, so advantage no longer there.

I would have to agree that Butters himself aint the reason we have a rough trot with injuries.

And yet North still looked fitter and faster than us in the preseason and no injuries?

I agree with people saying that it is part luck, but surely we haven't done that many bad things to be THIS unlucky.

 

[dubber]

Before I start I just want to fully acknowledge the fact that this guy has done some amazing things with our playing list, especially under mick in 2010.

But, this is the second year in a row that we have been behind pretty much the whole competition in terms of injury. Is he to blame? And if so, is it time to put the pressure on him or find a new health guru...? Our injury list is appalling when u take into account Hartley, Young and Seedsman aren't mentioned on our injury list.

Seriously?? How can you attribute the injuries to Ball, Keefe, Ried, Thomas, Goldsack & Karkouer to Butters..

I also have to question another point in your post to say that we are behind the competition with our injuries.

West Coast Injury List --- Does not lnclude Mark Le Cras!!!​

Adam Carter (ankle) 1-2 weeks
Daniel Kerr (knee) 3-4 weeks
Nic Naitanui (groin) 3-4 weeks
Mark Nicoski (hamstring) 8 weeks
Matt Rosa (quad) 6-8 weeks
Sharrod Wellingham (ankle) 4-6 weeks

Hawthorn Injury List​

Josh Gibson (ribs) – test
Luke Hodge (knee) – test
Brian Lake (calf) – test
Michael Osborne (knee) – test
Cyril Rioli (ankle) – test
Matt Suckling (knee) – season
Brendan Whitecross (knee) – indefinite
Alex Woodward (knee) – season

Geelong Injury List​

Jed Bews (foot) – indefinite
George Burbury (foot) – indefinite
Daniel Menzel (knee) – 2-3 weeks
Lincoln McCarthy (foot) – indefinite
Hamish McIntosh (knee) – indefinite
Dawson Simpson (back) – indefinite
Nathan Vardy (groin) – indefinite
Trent West (knee) – 1-2 weeks

 

[Number 10]

You might note that I said 2nd year in a row. I.e this is a recurring pattern. And hawthorn will effectively have 3 on their injury list come Monday....

 

[dubber]

You might note that I said 2nd year in a row. I.e this is a recurring pattern. And hawthorn will effectively have 3 on their injury list come Monday....

I think the context here should be that soft tissue injuries vs structural damage due to collision etc. So, how many soft tissues did we have last year? Not many that i can remember

 

[MagpieJoel]

Not sure how Butters can be to blame for structural injuries.

Even with soft tissue injuries a lot comes down to luck.

 

[Scodog10]

We currently have two key players with injury issues in Thomas and Reid and both of these injuries had zero to do with the elements that Butters can control. All others are to players in the bottom 8 of our best 22 at best or kids.

All players with injuries that could be attributed to Butters/ Buckley have issues that have led to injury with the main culprit being either too few or too many pre-seasons. Looking at last years squad we simply weren't fit enough so the club rightfully trained the boys harder this year. The players that have struggled under the load were Gault, Grundy, Ramsay, Fasolo and now Seedsman who have done on average 2 pre-seasons each plus Didak who is now just injury prone no matter what loading he is given much like Tarrant last year.

Maybe giving the players with 4 pre-seasons or less and 10 or more a restricted program is the way to go about it, but then you run the risk of them not having the required fitness to maintain our structures when called upon and the questions of Butters would then be "why aren't these guys fit enough?"....

Sometimes you need to take a backward step and realise that not everything is in our control no matter how much you spend and much of it comes down to luck.

FWIW where's the congrats to Butters on having Swanny cherry ripe, Macaffer looking ultra lean or JT to full fitness? Why do we always get bogged down in the negatives? Especially those that are beyond our control.

 

[DaVe86]

I'm actually quite frustrated at the moment.

I don't know who is to blame, or whether anyone is actually to blame.

All I know is that if the AFL season started next week, we would have close to a full side in.

That to me in unacceptable as it has been an extraodinarily long pre-season and the focus surely had to be on getting everyone right for r1.

Someone has done some terrible calculations because they have come up a week short.

Whether it's bad luck or poor management I don't know. But a club as rich as us should have the list in prime condition right now, and we have come up very short.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Yeah injuries are worrying me again this year, I was fine until today when I looked at how many guys are out or still under a cloud. We have better depth than last year but it'll only go so far. I thought we'd be due for some luck this year but it doesn't look great.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

broomhead has been struck down by illness that can be caused by pushing your body to the limits.

Glandular fever is caused by the Epstein-Barr virus.

 

[blaze036]

Glandular fever is caused by the Epstein-Barr virus.

Glandular Fever in adults:
There are many cases of glandular fever in adults (older than teenagers). I have received more and more requests for help from older adults over the last few years (ages ranging from 35 to 65). The one thing they all seem to have in common with each other (and with those young adults who traditionally come down with the illness) is their high physical activity levels and fast paced / action packed lifestyle

http://www.glandularfever.co/

I don't profess to be an expert, just read some things on it including intense physical activity can play a big role

 

[Premier Pies]

I know what you are saying and Buckley has pushed for more fitness. But in the end Buttifants job is to control this aspect of the group. Ultimately, it's his program's that the club run, not Buckley's.

Malthouse spoke most highly of Butters, going as far as to single him out as THE most important person at the club in the lead up to the 2nd 2010 grand final at the drawn grand final dinner. Maybe he has lost a bit of ticker since his best mate has departed?

I'm open to other theories to our horrible injury run, but I thought it was time to put the spotlight on him (on this board), as I'm sure most of you, like I am, are bloody unhappy about our injuries, which have seemlessly continued on just as badly as last year.

You may be right mate but have you considered that it just might be bad luck? I'm certainly no expert, but unless you can categorically prove that training load has caused injuries more frequently over the past two years, I really believe it is just a case of bad luck.

There may be something in it when you consider 3 out of our 4 new young players have been struck down with injury. However, the senior players that have been in the system for numerous years, blaming Buttifant for that I'm not so sure it's fair or as simple as that.

 

[Number 10]

You may be right mate but have you considered that it just might be bad luck? I'm certainly no expert, but unless you can categorically prove that training load has caused injuries more frequently over the past two years, I really believe it is just a case of bad luck.

There may be something in it when you consider 3 out of our 4 new young players have been struck down with injury. However, the senior players that have been in the system for numerous years, blaming Buttifant for that I'm not so sure it's fair or as simple as that.

Yeh I acknowledged luck to have some part. But 2 consecutive years of bad luck must have something to do with fitness management. So, I thought I would throw out one possible talkin point.