Dimma's contract extension - how do people feel now?

[SunshineBoy]

Hardwick is a senior coach not a doctor, but yeah it's his fault.


On this I agree, been calling for guys to go out for surgery since our season effectively died. I still believe that when Hardwick sees that we are no longer a mathematical chance of making it that we'll see this happening. At least then we can't get accused of tanking by the AFL because you just know that they would ping us if we did send them off now such is out luck.


When were Essendon missing their first ruck, best KPD and 2 of their best 6 midfielders at the same time? Lions have been decimated by injuries and were held to 0.1 to half time yesterday and 17 I50's for the game against Fremantle last night. Not that hard for the kids coming in to be showing something, it's a bit like posters on here getting excited about guys like Nason Derickx & Webberley in Hardwicks first year or 2. We quickly found out that the things they showed weren't AFL quality.

FWIW I am of the opinion, that given we're looking at being aggressive at the trade table, what we're doing now is trying to elevate the trade value of a few of the older players we have by playing them ahead of kids that have no value at the trade table. Guys like Arnot Helbig O'Hanlon and the like won't get us much at the trade table, but they are highly rated from what I've seen within the club. There are others that are either coming out of contract or entering the final year of a contract that would net us something decent at the trade table if we can sell them well.

That happened some weeks ago RT, unless of course 40 results go our way, I tried it on the baileys ladder predictor season was done weeks ago. But you still go on believing......

 

[nut]

You didn't which is exactly my point , not pissing him off is a mistake . I am not sure it is Dimma's job to appoint or dismiss recruiting staff .

Looks like Malthouse is shaping the recruiting positions at Carlton.

 

[nut]

Yeah pretty sad after five drafts, trade periods and more recently free agency. WTF is the coach responsible for then?

Thats Lades fault... no it injuries to Lids fault...ummm no its Francis Jacksons fault... ok Its the Lions fault for taking Leppa from us....

 

[_RT_]

Jackson was back before Lids was out. I know what you are saying but we have no depth.

Maric is not available so Hampson (who was recruited as fwd/ruck) must play ruck and our forward then needs to play resting ruck completely rooting up our forward structure. Where is our ruck depth? Mids can be covered for all be it you lose quality with a good mid going out but every side has the same problem. KPD in this case Rance was covered by Astbury. Grimes & Batch have come in over recent weeks and done okay. Where are our KPF to come in if Jack were not available?

Hardwick has recruited very poorly and doesn't get scrutinised enough for it. We might not be where we were in 2009 but we effectively need to rebuild in key areas. Add to this the club rewarded him with two extra years FFS!

Hardwick isn't the recruiter, Jackson & Hartley are the ones who do that and are responsible for finding players that Hardwick says that he needs. He says he needs a ruckman last year, Hartley is the one who goes out and finds the best one available that also fits in with our recruitment model i.e. isn't going to stuff the salary cap balance up. But yeah you're right it's all Hardwicks fault.

 

[_RT_]

That happened some weeks ago RT, unless of course 40 results go our way, I tried it on the baileys ladder predictor season was done weeks ago. But you still go on believing......

No I don't, I know that we're done, what I'm suggesting is that the club aren't putting the cue in the rack this far out because they know that if they do the crowds will drop off even more and the AFL will start snooping around about possible tanking. However if you do it with about a month to go it's not going to have that big of an effect on the bottom line.

Interesting how you say I still believe and yet you're the one who is looking at the ladder predictor trying to find out if there is any possibility. The only reason I'm using the ladder predictor is to find out how we can improve/maintain our draft pick in the top 10.

 

[nut]

Hinkley lets Thomas go.....

We let White go .....

One team is now alot quicker.... and one team is alot slower and yes the above players have had an impact at both clubs.... but the issues isnt how much impact they have had to the fortunes of their respective clubs, its the direction in which the clubs went. Its pretty clear which club knew which way was the right way to go....
You can blame the recruiters all you like buts its the football department headed by the senior coach which decides the recruiting philosophies..

5 years down the track we sit 16th with 3 wins..... after 2 season Port sit on top with less loses than our wins... The buck stops with Dimma.

 

[nut]

No I don't, I know that we're done, what I'm suggesting is that the club aren't putting the cue in the rack this far out because they know that if they do the crowds will drop off even more and the AFL will start snooping around about possible tanking. However if you do it with about a month to go it's not going to have that big of an effect on the bottom line.

Interesting how you say I still believe and yet you're the one who is looking at the ladder predictor trying to find out if there is any possibility. The only reason I'm using the ladder predictor is to find out how we can improve/maintain our draft pick in the top 10.

who in their right mind would accuse us of tanking???

 

[SunshineBoy]

No I don't, I know that we're done, what I'm suggesting is that the club aren't putting the cue in the rack this far out because they know that if they do the crowds will drop off even more and the AFL will start snooping around about possible tanking. However if you do it with about a month to go it's not going to have that big of an effect on the bottom line.

Interesting how you say I still believe and yet you're the one who is looking at the ladder predictor trying to find out if there is any possibility. The only reason I'm using the ladder predictor is to find out how we can improve/maintain our draft pick in the top 10.

hahaha we are bottom three at the moment, what improvement to ourdraft position are you hoping for?

 

[_RT_]

Did have much say at Coburg.... LMAO. Apart from the 12/10 rule it was our side and our influences through the coach that we got to appoint made sure we got to play the players where DH and the match committee wanted them to play.

Um no we didn't Adam Potter was appointed by Coburg not Richmond as the Coburg coach and he played the players where he saw fit to give Coburg the best chance of winning games.

 

[_RT_]

hahaha we are bottom three at the moment, what improvement to ourdraft position are you hoping for?

When I looked at the predictor we were holding pick 7 and I wanted to see if we would hold that or would end up with pick 5. Regardless of ladder position right now I still see us ending up with a pick in the 5-8 range.

 

[_RT_]

Hinkley lets Thomas go.....

We let White go .....

One team is now alot quicker.... and one team is alot slower and yes the above players have had an impact at both clubs.... but the issues isnt how much impact they have had to the fortunes of their respective clubs, its the direction in which the clubs went. Its pretty clear which club knew which way was the right way to go....
You can blame the recruiters all you like buts its the football department headed by the senior coach which decides the recruiting philosophies..

5 years down the track we sit 16th with 3 wins..... after 2 season Port sit on top with less loses than our wins... The buck stops with Dimma.

Port had the majority of their current best 22 on their list before Hinkley arrived, we got most of our current best 22 since Hardwick arrived.

Yes Hardwick tells the recruiters the type of players that he wants/needs to fit the way he wants to play, but the ultimate responsibility for recruiting them falls on Hartley for players from other clubs and Jackson and his recruiters for picking up those outside the AFL.

If they don't get their picks right, then I'd really like to know how it becomes Hardwicks fault?

 

[nut]

Port had the majority of their current best 22 on their list before Hinkley arrived, we got most of our current best 22 since Hardwick arrived.

Yes Hardwick tells the recruiters the type of players that he wants/needs to fit the way he wants to play, but the ultimate responsibility for recruiting them falls on Hartley for players from other clubs and Jackson and his recruiters for picking up those outside the AFL.

If they don't get their picks right, then I'd really like to know how it becomes Hardwicks fault?

I dont see that Dimma has done much at all.... Look at the side right now... take out round 1 picks.... take it players that were at the club before he got here.... take out players from other clubs. Who are we left with? Morris, Dea, Grimes and Batch.... besides Morris 3 players that have not cemented their spot in the side.....

I think its develolment not picks personally....

 

[_RT_]

Yeah pretty sad after five drafts, trade periods and more recently free agency. WTF is the coach responsible for then?

Going by the logic shown by some here Hardwick is responsbile for:
Recruiting
Injury Management
Contract Extensions


When the truth is that he is responsible for:
The game plan
Player Development

Now the game plan hasn't been great this year and Hardwick has put his hand up for that. Player development looks to be slowly coming around to what we want now that we have our own VFL side, but there is still some work to be done in this area.

 

[Tortured fan]

who in their right mind would accuse us of tanking???

Funny stuff

 

[TigerImposter]

Um no we didn't Adam Potter was appointed by Coburg not Richmond as the Coburg coach and he played the players where he saw fit to give Coburg the best chance of winning games.

Yes and our results still progressed in positive a trend. This doesn't cut it as Box Hill Hawks and Hawthorn run smoothly and DH came out of this system. It's more like what players DH recruited and what he has given up
Then add the crowd deterring and player destroying game plan and it appears we have a lunatic running the asylum

 

[Tiger71]

So how did hampson fall in to our lap? compromised draft? or spudness?

Oh Hampson is looking every game as a mistake but it is a mistake i can wear. What I mean by that is If our recruiters see talent thats not being used properly or they believe they can improve it, then go for it. They will make mistakes, hello Hampson! BUT its not like we are paying him 350-400k a year for 5 years or anything.

i

 

[SunshineBoy]

Oh Hampson is looking every game as a mistake but it is a mistake i can wear. What I mean by that is If our recruiters see talent thats not being used properly or they believe they can improve it, then go for it. They will make mistakes, hello Hampson! BUT its not like we are paying him 350-400k a year for 5 years or anything.

i

Are you sure of that?

 

[Tiger71]

Are you sure of that?

Yup

 

[_RT_]

I dont see that Dimma has done much at all.... Look at the side right now... take out round 1 picks.... take it players that were at the club before he got here.... take out players from other clubs. Who are we left with? Morris, Dea, Grimes and Batch.... besides Morris 3 players that have not cemented their spot in the side.....

I think its develolment not picks personally....

Do the same thing with Hawthorn. Outside their first round picks, players that were already there before Clarkson and players from other clubs and you're left with: Suckling Shiels Bruest Duryea Litherland Puopolo
That is 6 players from the Hawks 22 on Saturday. If Mitchell is fit then it probably becomes 5.

 

[TigerImposter]

Oh Hampson is looking every game as a mistake but it is a mistake i can wear. What I mean by that is If our recruiters see talent thats not being used properly or they believe they can improve it, then go for it. They will make mistakes, hello Hampson! BUT its not like we are paying him 350-400k a year for 5 years or anything.

i

agree buddy
But We know he's a dud , but the fact he is still getting a game is a team confidence killer and an indictment on DH
We should of dumped him in the seconds after round two and forgotten about him
DH is a butcher of youth development and confidence and this is why he's in the wrong job

 

[_RT_]

Yes and our results still progressed in positive a trend. This doesn't cut it as Box Hill Hawks and Hawthorn run smoothly and DH came out of this system. It's more like what players DH recruited and what he has given up
Then add the crowd deterring and player destroying game plan and it appears we have a lunatic running the asylum

Yep they did trend upwards, but in those years how often were we missing/carrying a number of our best players through injuries? This is the first year I can recall us carrying/missing 7-8 of our best players through injury at the same time. Unfortunately despite all the hype in the summer our depth wasn't as great as we believed it to be and we just didn't have the cattle/systems in place to cover. Hopefully some serious adjustments over this off season will help rectify that.

 

[nut]

Do the same thing with Hawthorn. Outside their first round picks, players that were already there before Clarkson and players from other clubs and you're left with: Suckling Shiels Bruest Duryea Litherland Puopolo
That is 6 players from the Hawks 22 on Saturday. If Mitchell is fit then it probably becomes 5.

Can you spot the difference ?

 

[_RT_]

agree buddy
But We know he's a dud , but the fact he is still getting a game is a team confidence killer and an indictment on DH
We should of dumped him in the seconds after round two and forgotten about him
DH is a butcher of youth development and confidence and this is why he's in the wrong job

Yep he is a real team killer, seen the vision of the players all getting to him on Friday night when he scored his first goal. The way the players got around him it would suggest that they know that he has been feeling the pressure that has come his way. IMO the Hampson/Maric partnership is looking better each week as they become more comfortable in working together. Now if we could just find a second stay at home KPF to step up we might finally start seeing our forward line working the way we've wanted it to work.

 

[TigerImposter]

Yep they did trend upwards, but in those years how often were we missing/carrying a number of our best players through injuries? This is the first year I can recall us carrying/missing 7-8 of our best players through injury at the same time. Unfortunately despite all the hype in the summer our depth wasn't as great as we believed it to be and we just didn't have the cattle/systems in place to cover. Hopefully some serious adjustments over this off season will help rectify that.

This is what I was saying last year that the list DH had was over rated ,but with the hype and hysteria I was yelled down
So we've established DH is still behind the pack after 5 years so do we react or continue to go with a coach with a record equivalent to spud Frawley????

 

[_RT_]

Can you spot the difference ?

Yes Nut 4 of them are locks in their 22, while ours aren't.

The other difference is that:
Bruest has been on the Hawks list for 6 years.
Suckling has been on the list for 8 years.
Shiel has been on the list for 6 years.
Puopolo has been on the list for 4 years and was a mature aged recruit.
Litherland has been on the list for 3 years before finally getting a crack this year.
Duryea has been on the list for 5 years and only become a regular last year.

So it's not like the Hawks got kids in and magically had them become best 22 players overnight, these players have had to bide their time in the VFL before they became best 22 locks. Yet somehow our kids are supposed to step up and do it almost immediately.