Analysis Does Derek Get a Pass Mark?

[wicksy]

Here is where we disagree my friend. Closing the gap overrides that IMO.

Better rookie Molly Meldrum to add to the diversity. How about we throw Julia Gillard onto a forward flank while we're at it?!

 

[MyManLynch]

Current Indigenous players by State (2015 list). Total 71 listed.

W.A 12 divided by 2 clubs = 6 average
S.A 11 divided by 2 clubs = 5.5 average
N.S.W 10 divided by 2 clubs = 5 average
QLD 9 divided by 2 clubs = 4.5 average
VIC 29 divided by 10 clubs = 2.9 average

So Victorian clubs are recruiting fewer indigenous players compared non Victorian clubs.
Will that trend continue?

 

[OniAu]

Well said popin. Whilst I wish all our selections well another draft goes by without an Indigenous player selected. We must have the lowest representation in the AFL and IMO it is not good enough.

Does it really matter that much ? Its not a horror movie , you don't need a token black guy.

How about picking the best player available regardless of his skin colour/ethnicity.

 

[Kappa]

Current Indigenous players by State (2015 list). Total 71 listed.

W.A 12 divided by 2 clubs = 6 average
S.A 11 divided by 2 clubs = 5.5 average
N.S.W 10 divided by 2 clubs = 5 average
QLD 9 divided by 2 clubs = 4.5 average
VIC 29 divided by 10 clubs = 2.9 average

So Victorian clubs are recruiting fewer indigenous players compared non Victorian clubs.
Will that trend continue?

Considering Victoria has the smallest aboriginal population of all the mainland states that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Kappa]

Does it really matter that much ? Its not a horror movie , you don't need a token black guy.

How about picking the best player available regardless of his skin colour/ethnicity.

Thank god the majority of posters can see common sense

 

[Apex36]

I am not saying they are racist at all. As usual Apex you take a small detail and use it to come up with something completely wrong. You really s**t me sometimes.

As do you, me.

 

[35Daicos]

I ran thru that list quickly past & present, total number per club:

Geelong had 5 listed for 2015 & only 4 past players (as part of their 9)

Somewhere else around here I've posted the 2015 figures and also the all-time figures. There were 73 indigenous players on AFL lists in 2015, the AFL website list omits Timmy Sumner (GC) and one other player whose name escapes me at the moment. The past players list I provided a link to omits Cyril Mann (Carlton) and includes a few who never played senior football.

Geelong have actually had 11 players play (senior football):-

 

[Kappa]

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, Aboriginals make up 2.4% of Australia's population. At Collingwood, 2.5% of our senior listed players are Aboriginal. There you have it folks, despite whining from two posters, Aboriginals are actually over-represented at the club.

Maybe we should ask our recruiters to give more white fellas a chance?

Such a stupid discussion

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Gut feeling is not good. We sorely need players with elite kicking ability and Bonner was there for the taking at 32. Would've liked us to pick up Mitch Brown too, as Reid is a very risky conveyance, as is Nathan Brown to a lesser extent. Having a ready made, afl experienced key position player would've been nice.

tried acidophilus?

 

[MyManLynch]

Considering Victoria has the smallest aboriginal population of all the mainland states that makes a lot of sense.

The draft system is National, hence where you are born should in fact be irrelevant, however there is a definite trend for non Victorian clubs to actually draft more indigenous players than Victorian clubs.
Something is happening (internally with Vic clubs) but nobody wants to talk about it.
The AFL, the clubs, media etc...its taboo?

 

[35Daicos]

AFL Indigenous All-Time (some have played for more than one club, of course):-



AFL Indigenous All-Time by State of Origin:-

 

[Kappa]

The draft system is National, hence where you are born should in fact be irrelevant, however there is a definite trend for non Victorian clubs to actually draft more indigenous players than Victorian clubs.
Something is happening (internally with Vic clubs) but nobody wants to talk about it.
The AFL, the clubs, media etc...its taboo?

View attachment 195786

A draft being national in no way or shape means where you are born is irrelevant.

It's a basic fact of draft night that recruiting a kid from another state is a bigger risk than recruiting one from your own backyard. It's well documented that Aboriginal kids from remote communities have a hard time adjusting to a completely different lifestyle. Going to the other side of the country away from family can only make that harder.

I think you will find there is a direct correlation between states with a higher % of Aboriginals living there drafting a higher % of Aboriginals to their list, and it ain't hard to figure out why.

 

[sirlothie]

Current Indigenous players by State (2015 list). Total 71 listed.

W.A 12 divided by 2 clubs = 6 average
S.A 11 divided by 2 clubs = 5.5 average
N.S.W 10 divided by 2 clubs = 5 average
QLD 9 divided by 2 clubs = 4.5 average
VIC 29 divided by 10 clubs = 2.9 average

So Victorian clubs are recruiting fewer indigenous players compared non Victorian clubs.
Will that trend continue?

Correct me if I'm wrong but WA has a higher % of Aboriginals in their population than Victoria.. Plus it's a fact that most TAC Cup players come from elite schools whereas most indigenous kids don't come from the city and are from lower socio-economic backgrounds.

I never went to school with an Aboriginal in primary or secondary school across the entire school...

I think there is a much higher indigenous population in northern and western states.

 

[MyManLynch]

A draft being national in no way or shape means where you are born is irrelevant.

It's a basic fact of draft night that recruiting a kid from another state is a bigger risk than recruiting one from your own backyard. It's well documented that Aboriginal kids from remote communities have a hard time adjusting to a completely different lifestyle. Going to the other side of the country away from family can only make that harder.

I think you will find there is a direct correlation between states with a higher % of Aboriginals living there drafting a higher % of Aboriginals to their list, and it ain't hard to figure out why.

Thank you Einstein. That's exactly what I am saying. Victorian clubs are recruiting fewer indigenous players...however no one is willing to come out & say why...its not discussed at AFL level.
We all know why.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

Dispatch from the NRL...

About 12 percent of NRL players have Indigenous backgrounds while 35 percent are playing for Australia on a regular basis.

And with numbers like that, Thurston says its no surprise New South Wales has been struggling to break the seven-year stranglehold Queensland holds on the Origin series.

"I think that might be the Blues' problem, they don't pick too many of the Indigenous boys."

 

[jmac70]

Dispatch from the NRL...

About 12 percent of NRL players have Indigenous backgrounds while 35 percent are playing for Australia on a regular basis.

And with numbers like that, Thurston says its no surprise New South Wales has been struggling to break the seven-year stranglehold Queensland holds on the Origin series.

"I think that might be the Blues' problem, they don't pick too many of the Indigenous boys."

You would be better off bashing your head against a wall.

 

[Anzacday]

Honestly, jmac70..... You're a racist idiot!

One of the biggest issues in race relations is the perception that indigenous receive far more than they give from/to society. What you're suggesting is perpetuating that exact thought. If we truly want this sport to become diverse, then we should be recruiting from all walks of life... Not just aboriginals. In my opinion though, a player earns the right to wear our jumper, whatever colour his skin.

I give up.

I was thinking along the same lines Wicksy, and then I realised, (hope I'm right) that what he's saying is if we concentrate on drafting these boys it will make our side better.
It's no so much to "fill a quota", it's the fact their skill set will automatically improve our side.
That right Jmac?

 

[jmac70]

I was thinking along the same lines Wicksy, and then I realised, (hope I'm right) that what he's saying is if we concentrate on drafting these boys it will make our side better.
It's no so much to "fill a quota", it's the fact their skill set will automatically improve our side.
That right Jmac?

Pretty much. I have repeated it half a dozen times but it makes little difference to the conclusions that some people choose to make. I won't be commenting on Aboriginal issues again. Just not worth it.

 

[MyManLynch]

Correct me if I'm wrong but WA has a higher % of Aboriginals in their population than Victoria.. Plus it's a fact that most TAC Cup players come from elite schools whereas most indigenous kids don't come from the city and are from lower socio-economic backgrounds.

I never went to school with an Aboriginal in primary or secondary school across the entire school...

I think there is a much higher indigenous population in northern and western states.

Correct the % are higher in Western & Northern States (compared to Victoria).
An interesting comparison would be, all drafted players from W.A...
- what % of non indigenous W.A players are drafted to Vic clubs
- what % of indigenous W.A players are drafted to Vic clubs

I'm not saying that Vic clubs are wrong, however I think it's time for the AFL to flag the issue & openly discuss & look for better ways going forward?

 

[Anzacday]

Pretty much. I have repeated it half a dozen times but it makes little difference to the conclusions that some people choose to make. I won't be commenting on Aboriginal issues again. Just not worth it.

There you go - sorted.
Next.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

You would be better off bashing your head against a wall.

Nah, we've got it easy, all we're doing is chatting online.

Nicky Winmar lifting his jumper and pointing to his skin - that is fu*king heroic!

 

[left at home]

i would like the club to take the best player available no matter their race is. and would be
very disappointed in the club if that was not the case. so far I have not seen that yet.
happy with who they took in the draft. pass by me especially after the trades of treloar aish and howe
is taken into account

 

[TradeDraft]

Do we found the Trade Period?

 

[Bard]

It seems like everyone is in agreement here in that we all want to choose the best available whether that's an Aboriginal or not. It seems like JMAC is really just saying that we need players who play like indigenous players whether they are or aren't should be irrelevant... Of course saying they all play the same way is some form of racial profiling (even though it's hardly negative) no?

It's always tough to tackle anything to do with the indigenous in Australia in conversation because everyone seems to already have their minds made up about the matter before even starting. I once started a thread along similar lines Jmac, about a lack of Indigenous talent being recruited and if we were perhaps seeing clubs straying away from recruiting them for whatever reason (and that it would be very sad if true) and yet you sat on the other side of the fence and called me racist then when it shouldn't have even been a part of the conversation.

All I'm saying is people need to care less about the stigma of racism and accusing others of it as a get out of gaol free card, and instead focus on the discussion at hand. People on here can make up their minds themselves if someone is racist and you don't need an angry mob at every corner preventing mature discussion.

 

[mike123]

I don't agree with the argument that were taking best available, its clear over the last couple of years we've been specifically targeting big bodied inside mids. Best available is a throwaway line used by recruiters to hide their strategies and even so best available is subjective and the best available varies from recruiter to recruiter, bigfooty posters who study youngsters hard and the average poster. Just because were not Hine doesn't mean we can have a different opinion (in saying that though he has a pretty good track record). Generally there aren't too many indigenous big bodied midfielders going around so that would explain why we haven't picked up too many over the last couple of years.

I don't think our recruiting team racist, Hine has recruited indigenous players and Rendell who prefers big bodied mids also has recruited indigenous players. He picked CEY who's both a big bodied mid and indigenous and IIRC he also picked up Tony Armstrong just at the top of my head.

I think the club needs to target outside runners and crumbing forward, traditionally roles indigenous players do well in. Target the best available players at these roles.