Does Geelong need to implement a youth policy?

[JackFlash]

Of course, they should. It's an aging list and it's catching up fast, the new stadium upon completion will see their home ground disadvantage rectified. They must have 11 home games. But is that enough? Geelong is no longer the fortress it once was...

 

[PhatBoy]

Of course, they should. It's an aging list and it's catching up fast, the new stadium upon completion will see their home ground disadvantage rectified. They must have 11 home games. But is that enough? Geelong is no longer the fortress it once was...

It was a fortress because we were a very good side.

It wasn’t a fortress pre-2007

 

[PhatBoy]

Some of the criticism of Geelong is way over the top, yes in hindsight you could say it was a failure because they failed to win a flag but they absolutely were good enough to win one in 2019/2020 at the least, they just happened to run into a dominant Richmond team in finals both years (who they had decent HT leads against both years but got overran in the last quarters).

Personally I think it's a credit to them that they've gone against conventional list management yet missed the finals just once in 15 years and only had one top 10 draft pick (Nakia Cockatoo who hardly played for them) in that time.

If they bottomed out years ago there's no guarantee they'd be any good now or in a better position to contend for a premiership, plenty of teams do this and fail, and people would instead be criticising them for wasting the primes of Hawkins, Duncan, Selwood, Dangerfield, Stewart etc

Thank you. Some perspective at last.

I can cop criticism of us not being good enough - of course we haven’t been, if we were, we would have won at least one more flag by now.

But saying ‘you’ve got it wrong’ because the path we chose didn’t win a flag doesn’t mean squat. Heaps of teams have tried the other way and failed. I’m personally proud that we haven’t accepted that you just have to drop off and spend half a decade where wins mean nothing and ‘it’s all about the future.’ Too many teams have faded into obscurity trying that method for no reward.

I have said many times before one advantage NRL has above AFL even though their player movement system is a joke, is that at the start of every season, all 16 teams are aiming at finals at the very least.

In afl in any given year, 5-6 teams have nothing on their mind but developing a few players and that’s a sad indictment on the competition

 

[azyboy]

There’s a consistent stream of players wanting to go to the Cats because it’s not Melbourne and very few leaving because it’s close enough to Melbourne. That’s an advantage.

Where were all these players pre-2007? The geography hasn’t altered. God, we threw the kitchen sink at Jade Rawlings and he chose the Dogs over us.

Brad Ottens was the only notable name pre ‘07 who actually wanted to come to Geelong. Granted free agency wasn’t in play until more recent years but I still can’t recall a big name (or any real name pre -Ottens) opining that they wanted to come to Geelong for the lifestyle.

In recent times, Danger is the only name of note that wanted to come to the Cats and he grew up there. Jack Steven is another local (well, Lorne) boy who wanted to be closer to home. He turned out well.

Cats (foolishly) chased Higgins, Dahlhaus (both locals). Henderson was also pursued (a Birregurra boy). Cameron wanted to come home to Victoria to be closer to his family. A 3.5 hour trip from Geelong. Yes, the Cats got him but we sold the farm to get him. We were also coming off a GF appearance. Fair chance he was chasing success as much as the lifestyle. If we had North’s current form for example, do you really think he’d have chosen Geelong?

Isaac Smith had two offers on the table (Dees and Cats). Again, in the twilight of his career I’m betting the cats list (and not so much the town) looked a little better at the time - of course history would say he’d be a two club premiership player if he’d chosen the Dees!

If anything, we seem to most attract ageing (mostly local) players past their prime. Not sure that’s an advantage? Now if Sam Walsh wants to come back home, I might agree with you!

 

[PhatBoy]

Where were all these players pre-2007? The geography hasn’t altered. God, we threw the kitchen sink at Jade Rawlings and he chose the Dogs over us.

Brad Ottens was the only notable name pre ‘07 who actually wanted to come to Geelong. Granted free agency wasn’t in play until more recent years but I still can’t recall a big name (or any real name pre -Ottens) opining that they wanted to come to Geelong for the lifestyle.

In recent times, Danger is the only name of note that wanted to come to the Cats and he grew up there. Jack Steven is another local (well, Lorne) boy who wanted to be closer to home. He turned out well.

Cats (foolishly) chased Higgins, Dahlhaus (both locals). Henderson was also pursued (a Birregurra boy). Cameron wanted to come home to Victoria to be closer to his family. A 3.5 hour trip from Geelong. Yes, the Cats got him but we sold the farm to get him. We were also coming off a GF appearance. Fair chance he was chasing success as much as the lifestyle. If we had North’s current form for example, do you really think he’d have chosen Geelong?

Isaac Smith had two offers on the table (Dees and Cats). Again, in the twilight of his career I’m betting the cats list (and not so much the town) looked a little better at the time - of course history would say he’d be a two club premiership player if he’d chosen the Dees!

If anything, we seem to most attract ageing (mostly local) players past their prime. Not sure that’s an advantage? Now if Sam Walsh wants to come back home, I might agree with you!

No no no all the other clubs would kill to have our unfair advantages mate.

 

[master bate]

Cameron wanted to come home to Victoria to be closer to his family. A 3.5 hour trip from Geelong. Yes, the Cats got him but we sold the farm to get him. We were also coming off a GF appearance. Fair chance he was chasing success as much as the lifestyle. If we had North’s current form for example, do you really think he’d have chosen Geelong?

Isaac Smith had two offers on the table (Dees and Cats). Again, in the twilight of his career I’m betting the cats list (and not so much the town) looked a little better at the time - of course history would say he’d be a two club premiership player if he’d chosen the Dees!

If anything, we seem to most attract ageing (mostly local) players past their prime. Not sure that’s an advantage? Now if Sam Walsh wants to come back home, I might agree with you!

Fair stretch to land 2 top 30 players in Danger and Cameron (who btw you didn’t pay that much for, late firsts are way overrated) and claim ‘well we haven’t signed Walsh’. Have a look at Jeremy Cameron’s Instagram and tell me that’s a guy who wasn’t keen to live on a farm.

No doubt if he had more confidence in Melbourne’s list Smith might be a demon but we were also set to train at Casey and I believe he’s talked about his heart being set on a change of lifestyle regardless.

And of course if you were North levels bad you wouldn’t be signing many, that doesn’t mean they’re all coming for immediate success.

It’s not 2007 anymore. Melbourne is noticeably bigger and more crowded. Players are constantly watched. Max Gawn lives in Blairgowrie. Lynch spends a lot of time in Sorrento. Vlastuin had his Torquay house set on fire. Most afl players over 26 want somewhere they can surf, have a coffee, get some peace and quiet and start a family.

I’m not saying these advantages are a free ride to the flag. And of course you have to become a good club to leverage any advantages. I’d just have the Cats firmly in the net positives in weighing up structural advantages.

 

[Partridge]

The Cats aren't really contenders though, they are perennial also rans. The list is good enough with all it's experience to consistently make finals, but not since the dynasty has it been good enough to really be a flag contender.

I mean, look at the Cats board for any of the last 5 years and you'll see constant acknowledgement that the list and coach isn't good enough come finals, this isn't new.

The question is, is it better to bottom out and be s**t for a while, then rise to win flags and fall again?
Or be constant also rans like Geelong, never going to win a flag with this plan, but always be a good side that makes and wins a few finals?

I guarantee you the 2022 Geelong team won't win the flag either, and the cycle continues, especially if they go and add a couple more 30 year olds with a couple of good years left at the end of the year again.

The Civil War has actually been raging for nearly a decade now. As soon as we went after (and got) McIntosh and Rivers in 2012 the concerns were raised about that particular method. It gets twisted and distorted that fans expect flags every year (have never ever seen or heard one poster say that), but the very real concerns about having too many veterans and not enough young players kept meant we were looking at a world of hurt.

At least we haven't had multiple finals failures or absolute annihilations to expose the problems. That really would suck.

 

[Sky]

Based on what, the courage it has taken to try and beat the system a decade after people were already starting to whisper that we were too old?

F***en hell this makes me laugh

He needs to look at our sides that integrated the likes of Menzel, Christensen, Duncan, Hunt, Murdoch, Thurlow, Smedts, etc. Even if some didn’t make it, he still did it often. Even as Scott out camp, I just can’t say he didn’t blood youth in his first 5 years.

Happy with the selections this year for the first time in many years. I know it’s going to be an inaccurate statement but the last 5 years, it has only felt that Parfitt and Henry have been getting a go from the U23 age range.

Topping up obviously didn’t work and we probably should’ve only got Dangerfield, Cameron, Rivers, Tuohy and Henderson throughout this last 6-7 years (and now Stengle). Maybe a bit harsh to some ex players but these have been the only recruits I’ve been happy with.

Stanley is crap but I don’t mind the guy tbh, probably a good clubman and it’s nice to have them types around ie David Mackay lasting so long at Adelaide.

 

[marcmurphy3]

No.

Geelong are in for some serious pain in 2-5 years no matter what they do now. May as well see through what they are currently doing to try make it worth it.

That said, I feel like where it is a marginal selection call they need to back the younger player.

 

[bzparkes]

Everyone saying awesome bump but I can only see the OP that 'created' this thread yrsterday.

In short, no, you don't need to go a youth policy.

Just look at how well WCE have done topping up and ignoring the point end of the draft, for instance.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Where were all these players pre-2007? The geography hasn’t altered. God, we threw the kitchen sink at Jade Rawlings and he chose the Dogs over us.

Railings didn't choose the dogs.
Hawks made a deal to refusing to trade him (look up the veale deal)

 

[Sky]

Everyone saying awesome bump but I can only see the OP that 'created' this thread yrsterday.

In short, no, you don't need to go a youth policy.

Just look at how well WCE have done topping up and ignoring the point end of the draft, for instance.

It was a 2010 thread and the original op was wrong since we won in 2011.

I think someone just moved a few posts after a bump into a new Geelong thread as if there weren’t heaps of them around.

 

[The 747]

I do wonder how Geelong would look right now if Higgins, Dalhaus and Henderson in particular hadn't been played last season but Clark, Constable, Narkle and Fort were given ownership of a position for 22 games. They still would have played finals and potentially developed some young players at the top level.

Instead now the age demo looks rough and 3 if the players I mentioned are at different clubs.

Well Henderson is a key back and the others aren't.

Clark could have been handled better. Constable will not make it at AFL level, neither will Narkle. Fort is 28.

Really would not have made much difference. Agree Higgins and Dalhaus could have (and should have) been punted into the sun by now with no negative impact on team performance.

 

[Taper]

Well Henderson is a key back and the others aren't.

Clark could have been handled better. Constable will not make it at AFL level, neither will Narkle. Fort is 28.

Really would not have made much difference. Agree Higgins and Dalhaus could have (and should have) been punted into the sun by now with no negative impact on team performance.

Is Constable still on the Suns list? Glad to see Narkle get another chance at Port although he's borderline at best.

 

[The 747]

Is Constable still on the Suns list? Glad to see Narkle get another chance at Port although he's borderline at best.

He is, played a couple of games at the start of the year (my mate had him in Supercoach), they tried him in defence he isn't a good kick. He would only ever play for the Suns if Rowell was out.

Narkle I wish him all the best, he can play he just won't run hard when he doesn't have the ball. If Port can knock that out of him he'll be handy.

 

[STPer18]

Youth policy in 2022 or a flag and trade in a whole raft of former 1st round picks and somehow scrounge together a top 10 pick of our own to take to the draft?

Yeah I'm going the latter.

 

[Taper]

I do wonder how Geelong would look right now if Higgins, Dalhaus and Henderson in particular hadn't been played last season but Clark, Constable, Narkle and Fort were given ownership of a position for 22 games. They still would have played finals and potentially developed some young players at the top level.

Instead now the age demo looks rough and 3 if the players I mentioned are at different clubs.

Higgins, Dahlhaus and Henderson were phased out by Holmes, Stengle and De Koning going past them and pushing them out of the best 22.

Young blokes stepping up and taking spots in the best 22 off older blokes is a major reason why we won the flag last year.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Unlike many other teams, Geelong seem to just regenerate 'naturally'. We don't actively exclude young players, but we don't go the full hard rebuild and promote kids before they're ready either (injuries aside).

If a young player gets to the point where they are more of a lock than an older player, they just ease in and the older bloke eases out. De Koning, Henry, Holmes, Close, Miers, and Zuthrie all just transitioned into our Best 22 with an absolute minimum of fuss.

Mullin, Dempsey, and especially Knevitt are now starting to knock on the door. Even if (say) Isaac Smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

35

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

goes around again in 2024, it wouldn't be at all surprising to see Knevitt just quietly overtake him in our Best 22 by the end of next season.

 

[uranium_death]

Because they aren't a contender now. The Selwood-Dangerfield combination is absolutely inferior to other midfield combinations. The forward line is ageing rapidly, and the team's depth is questionable

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but we need more quality players in the 21-26 age bracket. The folly of pulling in mature-aged players has cost too much money, and stalled development

Jeremy Cameron will not prove to be the difference, as losing Franklin did not curtail Hawthorn's success

Well, this aged well

 

[sexyhunk]

Holmes, OHenry's, Stengle, Bruhn, De Koning, Zuthrie, Miers, Close ... are already entrenched in the best 22.

Bullish on Knevitt, Mullin, Dempsey, Bowes and Simpson.
Future isn't too bad at all.
Just need another couple of high quality recruits.

In Wells/Mackie we trust

also jhye clark

 

[My Tilly]

also jhye clark

He's going to be a gun but hasn't played a game as of yet.
Conway and Clark are going to be the cornerstone of the team for a decade.

 

[Sttew]

He's going to be a gun but hasn't played a game as of yet.
Conway and Clark are going to be the cornerstone of the team for a decade.

He's played one game

 

[My Tilly]

He's played one game

Your right, he was the sub wasn't he?
A bit like Mullin, to actually be good enough to fly past those currently in the VFL and earn a senior call up so early in their careers, it indicates we have two pretty decent prospects on our hands.
Mullin could be anything. Needs a couple of years of fine tuning but a powerful athlete ready to put it all together.

 

[Taper]

He's going to be a gun but hasn't played a game as of yet.
Conway and Clark are going to be the cornerstone of the team for a decade.

Neale as well.

 

[My Tilly]

Neale as well.

Not so sure about Neale.
Great physique and looks a likely type.
Needs a big preseason and we will see if he's got the goods in 2024.