Fiztroy-North Melbourne Kangaroos?

[speedy]

Fitzroy-North Melbourne Kangaroos?

Interesting to see how much Fiztroy support the Bears got in making the GF.

It makes you wonder how successful a Roos/Lions merger would have been.

8 extra players from the Lions.
We would have had Primus, Barker, Paxman and Johnson in our side as we speak.

How many more GF's would we have made?
How many more Premierships would we have won?

If heaps of Fitzroy fans supported a successful QLD team, how many would have supported a Melbourne one?

I think success would have wooed both Roo and Lions fans to this new club.

We could have finished with 3 flags in a decade, 35000+ members and become the envy of every Victorian club.

 

[Rooboy 96]

and that is why the other clubs... stopped us... we would have been the superpower they were all worried we would be...

 

[Byron'sShoulder]

out of interest, had the merger between fitzroy and north gone through, what team would they have been? ie what colours, roos or lions? etc. did those sorts of things ever actually get discussed and sorted?

 

[King Corey]

I have the old letters about this somewhere.. basically the Kangaroo was the favoured symbol and we were given the idea that this would be we'd take into the merger rather than North Melbourne - if pushed. In fact there was some talk about 'Fitzroy Kangaroos' and also 'Fitzroy-North Melbourne United' with the Kangaroo as the symbol.

Of course it never happened tho - tho I remember the papers speculating on a merged team and it was pretty good!

Also interesting how Brisbane were offered 8 players but took 9?!

 

[McCartney5]

It was a north blue and white striped jumper for the top half with a kangaroo in the middle and then went maroon and the shorts were maroon as well

We were going to be called "North-Fitzroy Kangaroos United" and our symbol would have a kangaroo and lion on each side of a symbol

There was also talk of having a lion on the back or for away games

 

[great]

Re: Fitzroy-North Melbourne Kangaroos?

Originally posted by speedy
Interesting to see how much Fiztroy support the Bears got in making the GF.

It makes you wonder how successful a Roos/Lions merger would have been.

If heaps of Fitzroy fans supported a successful QLD team, how many would have supported a Melbourne one?

.

I think anyone who didn't barrack for Essendon had a soft spot for Brisbane in the GF and wanted them to win because of the Lion/Fitzroy connection.

Rooboy 96 makes a very valid point that the majority of teams in the then AFL were against a North Melb./Fitzroy merger because they all feared what they would have to come up against.

At that time North had been heartbroken in a few Prelims....The Geelong one hurt most of all (remember Ablett kicked the goal that just about broke Mick's heart?)

Fitzroy had quite a few handy players as well..

We got JB before that but Pikey and Chandler(not Movies) were the good pick ups.

Others went to Brisbane or elsewhere.

We can only speculate about the NM /Fitzroy merger now , I think it would have been a great benefit to both sides.

On the other hand , we have 2 recent trophies , Brisbane 1.

Could the Brisbane thing be a flash in the pan?

Remember Melbourne were in the 2000 GF.

Nice one Speedy.

 

[McCartney5]

I also remember a lot of the players having clauses in their contracts that said they could leave the club if we did merge

Still I was all for it but in the AFL it usually comes down to keeping interstate sides happy and the 4 main Victorian Clubs

 

[great]

Hey Macca,

Guess what?

I'm not from interstate.............


Surprise , surprise....................

 

[great]

That **** pisses me off so much 'cos it's day out day in here in the City of Churches.........People are so unkind , un christian.............................................

 

[Michele]

If this topic gets on to the main board, expect quite a few very long, extremely long posts re the merger from old Fitzroy supporters.

They quote, ad nauseum, from Dyson Hore-Lacey's book (apparently it is quite good) but they fail to see it is written from a Fitzroy perspective.

According to the old Roy supporters, the merger only fell over because Greg Miller, and Walsh or Dawson were "too greedy" and were not "upfront", especially over the name - initially Fitzroy-North and then North supporters kicked up such a stink, they name was changed to North Fitzroy

The "Narau" loan also gets a great airing - "North should have repaid the $600,000 loan.
Player lists are also contentious!!! The previous AFL merger carrot of $6mil and the amount of players allowed was changed by who else, non other than Richmond's Leon Daphne. He called a presidents meeting to because he was frightened North would be too powerful on-and-off the field.

Fitzroy supporters overlook these facts.

Michele

 

[buassa]

there were a lot of reasons for the failed merger, bottom line is I don't think the AFL ever wanted Fitzroy to merge with NMFC, basically the AFL wanted the Roys to go north to strengthen Brisbane and in turn leave NMFC to perhaps face the same end as the mighty Roys.
All I can say is that I merged with North in '96, so Ross Oakley, Noel Gordon and the AFL (anti Fitzroy league) can go to hell. I also urge all NMFC supporters to buy a membership and keep this great club ALIVE, PROSPEROUS AND BASED IN MELBOURNE.

 

[Mobbs]

Per Michele's post

If this topic gets on to the main board, expect quite a few very long, extremely long posts re the merger from old Fitzroy supporters.

*giggle* Thankfully, my posts aren't usually too long, except when I am deliberately talking in jest. Please forgive my intrusion.

Fitzroy supporters overlook these facts.

In what reference. Are you inferring that Roys fans think North sabotaged the North-Roy merger plan? I'm not of that mind.

Some North folks were doing the right things, others weren't. Same could be said for the Roys board, the Bris board, the Nauru folks. Even the AFL had one or two folks acting compassionately.

I wasn't fan of North-Roy, nor am I a fan of Bris-Roy. I would rather we have died with our boots on, than be bred out. But that's personal opinion, not borne of dissatisfaction with a faction at all.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Originally posted by Michele
They quote, ad nauseum, from Dyson Hore-Lacey's book (apparently it is quite good) but they fail to see it is written from a Fitzroy perspective

You haven't read it, but you're an expert on its content?

 

[Mr Ripper]

Originally posted by King Corey
I have the old letters about this somewhere.. basically the Kangaroo was the favoured symbol and we were given the idea that this would be we'd take into the merger rather than North Melbourne - if pushed. In fact there was some talk about 'Fitzroy Kangaroos' and also 'Fitzroy-North Melbourne United' with the Kangaroo as the symbol.

Also interesting how Brisbane were offered 8 players but took 9?!

The original heads of agreement between Casey and DHL had the merged club being known as the Fitzroy-North Melbourne Kangaroos, but after some weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth from those in blue and white, this was watered down to the North Fitzroy Kangaroos - the name we would have seen on scoreboards around the country had the deal gone through.

Just correcting your other point, Brisbane had access to a minimum of 8 Fitzroy players, chose 9, but on-traded Primus to Port Adelaide.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Re: Fitzroy-North Melbourne Kangaroos?

Originally posted by speedy
If heaps of Fitzroy fans supported a successful QLD team, how many would have supported a Melbourne one?

We could have finished with 3 flags in a decade, 35000+ members and become the envy of every Victorian club.

That's the optimistic point of view.

With the dilution of both clubs' identities (50% each in theory ), there'd surely have been a significant falling away of support in both camps.

Then again, the almost guaranteed on-field success would have kept plenty in the fold.

 

[Portia]

Re: Primus, he was actually uncontracted and wanted to come to Port as one of our foundation uncontracted player picks, which he in fact did.

Brisbane received the #3 pick (Rory Hilton) as compensation, so really, you might've had him, but not Primus

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by Mr Ripper


You haven't read it, but you're an expert on its content?

Mr Ripper,

I am responding to many posts written by Fitzroy supporters on the subject of the merger and "their" interpretations or perspective. So I am going on what posters have written.

Not sure if it is you or not, but a Roy supporter claims Greg Miller was "too greedy" and "not upfront, especially in regards to the name, so the fault lay with Miller that North and Fitzroy didn't merge.

North members signed a petition wanting the name reversed to North Firtzoy - and it was. According to ROY people who have read DHL's book, DHL was angered about the name change and blamed Miller.

DHL's book, by all accounts, is good reading but keep in mind the book is written from a Fitzroy and his perspective. And it is also written by someone who 'lost' his club. Those were very trying times for all concerrned with the exception of the AFL.

Michele

ps Mr Ripper, I do not want this to turn into a us versus them.

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer


In what reference. Are you inferring that Roys fans think North sabotaged the North-Roy merger plan? I'm not of that mind.

Some North folks were doing the right things, others weren't. Same could be said for the Roys board, the Bris board, the Nauru folks. Even the AFL had one or two folks acting compassionately.

I agree.

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by buassa
I also urge all NMFC supporters to buy a membership and keep this great club ALIVE, PROSPEROUS AND BASED IN MELBOURNE.

Perhaps you should also then consider buying a Fitzroy membership, if you were/are a Fitzroy person. After all, we are still a club, who sponsors a Fitzroy team, wearing the Roys jumper, playing out of Brunswick St., and singing the Roys song. If that's not Fitzroy, then I don't know what is.

 

[Olmy]

Personally, I supported the idea of a North-Fitzroy merger, as long as there was a reasonable slice of Fitzroy's identity in the new team (ie: a combination of our colours, logo, name, song, players, history, or whatever it was going to be).

I am sure that if this were the case, that the team would have had a reasonably large supporter base, due to the promise of a combined playing list, that surely would have been a top side.

Similarly, as it was the wish of both boards, it would have had the "blessing", unlike BL, who up until recently, were not given any such recommendation by the FFC.

In hindsight however, it may be, that the eventually outcome was possibly the better scenario for all involved.

Personally, I don't mind North, and hopefully you guys can stick it out and forge a prosperous club, with a formidable team that is at least partly Victorian.

 

[Michele]

Originally posted by Olmy
Personally, I supported the idea of a North-Fitzroy merger, as long as there was a reasonable slice of Fitzroy's identity............
..........
Similarly, as it was the wish of both boards, it would have had the "blessing", unlike BL, who up until recently, were not given any such recommendation by the FFC.

In hindsight however, it may be, that the eventually outcome was possibly the better scenario for all involved.

Personally, I don't mind North, and hopefully you guys can stick it out and forge a prosperous club, with a formidable team that is at least partly Victorian.

Olmy,

A backhanded compliment if ever I saw one - especially after the turmoil experienced by Fitzroy supporters.

Michele

 

[Olmy]

Originally posted by Michele


Olmy,

A backhanded compliment if ever I saw one - especially after the turmoil experienced by Fitzroy supporters.

Michele

Well, I'm not really sure what a backhanded compliment refers to, I was just calling it how is see (or saw) it. Cheers.

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by Michele
They quote, ad nauseum, from Dyson Hore-Lacey's book (apparently it is quite good) but they fail to see it is written from a Fitzroy perspective.

According to the old Roy supporters, the merger only fell over because Greg Miller, and Walsh or Dawson were "too greedy" and were not "upfront", especially over the name - initially Fitzroy-North and then North supporters kicked up such a stink, they name was changed to North Fitzroy

The Dyson Hore-Lacey book is a brilliant one. Naturally it is from a Fitzroy perspective, but Hore-Lacey can only write things from the way he saw them and I do not think that he was unfair with his comments on North Melbourne. Whilst he was critical of Miller, he was very complimentary to North Melbourne people in other areas.

I don't think any of the old Roy fans laid the blame for the failure of the merger all onto Greg Miller's doorstep (and I should point out here that I was for the merger and would have been happy to accept the original terms struck between the two clubs). There were many other behind the scenes manipulations, and I think the AFL commission, and Ross Oakley in particular, were the key reasons for the Lions eventually doing their deal with the Bears. However, I believe that if Ron Casey had been in full health at the time of the negotiations, the Fitzroy-North Melbourne Kangaroos would have become a reality.

 

[Fat Pizza]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer

[Some North folks were doing the right things, others weren't. Same could be said for the Roys board, the Bris board, the Nauru folks. Even the AFL had one or two folks acting compassionately.

I wasn't fan of North-Roy, nor am I a fan of Bris-Roy. I would rather we have died with our boots on, than be bred out. But that's personal opinion, not borne of dissatisfaction with a faction at all.

It seems a few of us Fitzroy supporters have found the topic anyway.

I agree with what Mobbenfuhrer has said here. At the time, I'd have preferred the Roys to die, rather than be diluted in a merger, however the Brisbane Lions have been better for Roys fans than I expected. I don't have a great passion for them, but I'm comfortable with the current situation. (And that has absolutely nothing to do with ladder positions.)

For the record, the Fitzroy North merger proposed having an extended list, with about 28 players from each side. This would have allowed Fitzroy fans to see quite a few of our young players develop in what was left of the Reserves competition in Melbourne.

I believe the Brisbane Lions were initially told they would not be able to trade any of the players they inherited from Fitzroy, but the AFL changed the rules for them (not an unusual occurrence), when Primus refused to play for them.

As to the original question, I have no idea what the merged Fitzroy North would have been like. I guess from a North perspective, you'd have had a diluted identity, probably more money & possibly more stability. You may have won more games...that is hard to assess. Personally, I doubt if I'd have any more affinity with that team than I do with the Lions.

 

[King Corey]

Originally posted by Radical Conformist

Just correcting your other point, Brisbane had access to a minimum of 8 Fitzroy players, chose 9, but on-traded Primus to Port Adelaide.

You sounds fairly certain but I could have sworn that one of the reasons Brisbane clinched the deal was their willingness to take less players (ie 8).

Ontrading Primus - essentially giving him straight up - gave them Rory Hilton and Tim Notting.. not a bad return.