Preview Geelong Cats Vs Collingwood Magpies MCG Friday Aug 28 7:50 pm

[Art Vandelay_]

So one minute you are telling me Kersten had his go, isn't upto it and had to be dropped. Now you are suggesting to me guys like Smedts, Simpson, Delaney, Cowan, McCarthy, Cunico are reasons why we lost to Melbourne?

See where the flaw is?

No didn't say not up to it, just said he's been struggling and was dropped accordingly.

Again maybe re-read what I said, I counter argued your Buddy and McGlynn etc by countering with players out that contributed to us losing. Those players you've named I didn't mention or refer to with the exception of Simpson so no, no flaw here thanks.

 

[Seeds]

I still do not understand how those players or how many games they have played has anything to do with GHS.

I do not think GHS' AFL games have shown he cannot succeed. Quite the contrary. I think it shows he is slow, which does not mean he cannot or will not succeed.

Fairly sure the club would have already known he was slow. Its called testing.

So you agree with me that talent also matters. Glad we cleared that up. I think he doesn't have the talent and you do. We will see who is right. Hope it's not me as he has a three year contract.

 

[Seeds]

Nope, it doesn't work like that. You brought the VFL into the discussion, not me. Don't bitch and moan because he's played well at that level too (and for more than one game incidentally).

So you don't want to count it but then you want to highlight his VFL performance anyway? Watch him when the opposition have the ball in the next game he plays and maybe you will get what others are seeing.

 

[Partridge]

Assume you're referring to me. I'm not extatic GHS is out. Just not surprised.

I must have misread your statement. I thought you mentioned something about laughing your head off, and salty tears about Horlin-Smith:

Laughing my head of at the posts full of salty tears re GHS. He was average at best last week. He had 19 touches as a permanent mid. Majority handballs that didn't hurt te opposition at all

It's in there somewhere I'm sure.

Also surprised that you're seriously trying to compare a one paced midfielder who is small bodied and doesn't hurt sides with his disposal to a brownlow medal winnig norm smith winning all time great. That you're suggesting that GHS has him covered. Fair dinkum - in your desire to be "right" in your opinion of a footballers ability, you've thrown out all logic.

This is where it pays to actually read what I wrote and not what you imagine it to be. I wrote this:

With the match committee thinking Bartel and Kelly are still superior (possibly true with Bartel, very dubious with Kelly), Horlin-Smith makes way.

How you can take "possibly true with Bartel" (about him still being superior don't forget) and twisting that to "that you're suggesting that GHS has him covered" is just a bit of a stretch. Not remotely true. But, I'm sure it'll be twisted again, so I better put it down more clearly.....

I would say right now Bartel is just ahead as a midfielder, but that gap is closing fast. For Kelly I would prefer Horlin-Smith without hesitation.

GHS will never be a fraction of the footballer Bartel OR kelly are - ever. That's not bias. It's fact based on the two veterans being all time greats and the incumbent being unable to get a game in a side decayed by injury.

Actually it is bias. We don't know what the future holds, and nothing about the future can be described as a fact. It's personal opinion and nothing else.

 

[Daniel McL]

Predictions:

Most Touches: Guthrie
Most Goals: Hawkins/Stevie J (Vardy a roughie)
Best on Ground: Selwood
Sub: Cockatoo/Menzel/Gregson

#MenzelAlert
- 10-15 touches.
- 3-5 marks.
- 1-2 goals.

 

[cats2rise]

So you don't want to count it but then you want to highlight his VFL performance anyway? Watch him when the opposition have the ball in the next game he plays and maybe you will get what others are seeing.

I have watched him closely, he is one of my more favoured players. I struggle to see the deficiencies you hint at but do not explain in detail.

 

[Saint]

Geelong have always done well in the wet ... so this statement does not make sense? We have no roof and the conditions down at the cattery mean we train and play in it more often than most.

They used to do well in the wet when Bartel couldn't be stopped in the long sleeves and had strong bodies around him. Caddy is the next strongest body after Selwood and he's out. Blitz will have an even harder time jumping over Grundy or Witts who will kill him around the ground.

First use because of their rucks and a more heavily built midfield, it would take some outrageous heroics for Selwood to be able to drag this one across the line.

 

[Partridge]

So you don't want to count it but then you want to highlight his VFL performance anyway? Watch him when the opposition have the ball in the next game he plays and maybe you will get what others are seeing.

Let's be clear - you introduced the VFL into the equation. From that point, I don't know what you mean by it - are we meant to ignore VFL form, or include it? I don't know and already really don't care.

As for the second part, let me guess, he's slow? Wow, thanks for the insight. If it wasn't brought up every week I would never have known. What that means is that he won't be chasing anyone down, so he needs to get the ball himself and use it well to make up for it.

Looking forward to copying and pasting the exact same arguments next week.

 

[bigblackboz]

They used to do well in the wet when Bartel couldn't be stopped in the long sleeves and had strong bodies around him. Caddy is the next strongest body after Selwood and he's out. Blitz will have an even harder time jumping over Grundy or Witts who will kill him around the ground.

First use because of their rucks and a more heavily built midfield, it would take some outrageous heroics for Selwood to be able to drag this one across the line.

Nice Avatar too FWIW.

 

[Saint]

Fair enough. How many midfielders of ours had 40+ touches this year in the VFL?

Toby Pinwill had 48 touches last game for Port Melbourne. VFL doesn't count except for fitness, especially for slow people trying to transition to AFL which is a lot faster.

 

[Bobby_]

No didn't say not up to it, just said he's been struggling and was dropped accordingly.

Again maybe re-read what I said, I counter argued your Buddy and McGlynn etc by countering with players out that contributed to us losing. Those players you've named I didn't mention or refer to with the exception of Simpson so no, no flaw here thanks.

the only flaw will be your meltdown later tonight when Kelly has a shit game and Geelong lose
Liking Collingwood's chances even more now that the weather looks like it won't be as bad as first thought.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

I must have misread your statement. I thought you mentioned something about laughing your head off, and salty tears about Horlin-Smith:



It's in there somewhere I'm sure.



This is where it pays to actually read what I wrote and not what you imagine it to be. I wrote this:



How you can take "possibly true with Bartel" (about him still being superior don't forget) and twisting that to "that you're suggesting that GHS has him covered" is just a bit of a stretch. Not remotely true. But, I'm sure it'll be twisted again, so I better put it down more clearly.....

I would say right now Bartel is just ahead as a midfielder, but that gap is closing fast. For Kelly I would prefer Horlin-Smith without hesitation.



Actually it is bias. We don't know what the future holds, and nothing about the future can be described as a fact. It's personal opinion and nothing else.

Its not just personal opinion though Parridge. Better qualified experts such as a match committee and an AFL premiership coach have CONSISTENTLY left GHS out of the side - in a season when we've been decimated by injury to our midfielders. And fair enough your opinion is that GHS is ahead of Kelly as a midfielder - youre entitled to that opinion. But I would suggest that on exposed form in 2015 its incorrect, and again, the match committee and senior coach both disagree, by virtue of the fact that Kelly has DIRECTLY made way for GHS the minute Kelly was fit and selectable.

But lets give it MORE time, and see where this lies in another season.

 

[afl genius]

They used to do well in the wet when Bartel couldn't be stopped in the long sleeves and had strong bodies around him. Caddy is the next strongest body after Selwood and he's out. Blitz will have an even harder time jumping over Grundy or Witts who will kill him around the ground.

First use because of their rucks and a more heavily built midfield, it would take some outrageous heroics for Selwood to be able to drag this one across the line.

Collingwood had thrown it in for the year. Wouldn't surprise if they play players in unsual postions, including the youngesters through the middle. Their forward half is the worry, they play a small potent forward line, Geelong play a tall at times loose defense. Wet weather could really expose this

 

[Bobby_]

Their forward half is the worry, they play a small potent forward line

Moore, Reid and Cloke are giants.
Fasolo, Elliott and Varcoe will trouble us. It's a better forward line than they've had for most of the year.

They are thin in defence as they may have to rotate Reid back again if Walker starts to get away from his opponent. Brown on Hawkins would be the logical choice at the opening bounce.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

the only flaw will be your meltdown later tonight when Kelly has a shit game and Geelong lose
Liking Collingwood's chances even more now that the weather looks like it won't be as bad as first thought.

Some big assumptions you're making there

 

[Sttew]

I am not a pessimist, but I have an uncomfortable feeling about this game. The Pies have selected a good team, and will be out to show last week's game was an aberration. Our midfield looks well and truly depleted without Caddy and Duncan. Hopefully, though, Blicavs does what he did last time these sides met. And hopefully Collingwood play for a higher draft pick, i.e. play to lose

 

[Partridge]

Its not just personal opinion though Parridge. Better qualified experts such as a match committee and an AFL premiership coach have CONSISTENTLY left GHS out of the side - in a season when we've been decimated by injury to our midfielders. And fair enough your opinion is that GHS is ahead of Kelly as a midfielder - youre entitled to that opinion. But I would suggest that on exposed form in 2015 its incorrect, and again, the match committee and senior coach both disagree, by virtue of the fact that Kelly has DIRECTLY made way for GHS the minute Kelly was fit and selectable.

But lets give it MORE time, and see where this lies in another season.

Absolutely. If they had gone through the really slow midfielders we now have - say Horlin-Smith, Bartel, Kelly, Stokes - they could have said to Horlin-Smith "those three get picked ahead of you". Plus they would already know who will be there next year. Where I disagree, is if after one solid outing - Horlin-Smith certainly wasn't great last week, but he wasn't shit either - his flaws aren't suddenly new. Because they were all there the previous week when he had 26 touches against Hawthorn, and there was very little criticism that week. He wasn't any quicker either.

Sure, the match committee pick the team to win, and they apparently think the other two are better choices. No problem. But it's the same match committee, and coach, and club, that re-signed him for three more years. So they obviously value him way more than people think.

The other important factor is that ever since 2011 Scott has an enormous loyalty to the veterans in the team. He takes them out of the team very reluctantly and only once it's painfully obvious how much they've slipped (i.e. Stokes this year). It's no surprise at all he recalled Kelly.

 

[Cattery]

The other important factor is that ever since 2011 Scott has an enormous loyalty to the veterans in the team. He takes them out of the team very reluctantly ...... It's no surprise at all he recalled Kelly.

Do you think it's possible the reason he was recalled has less to do with loyalty and more to do with talent? In the month preceding the Hawks game where he was injured, he was averaging twenty five disposals per match, hardly the figures of someone getting a game purely on loyalty I wouldn't have thought.

 

[Partridge]

Do you think it's possible the reason he was recalled has less to do with loyalty and more to do with talent? In the month preceding the Hawks game where he was injured, he was averaging twenty five disposals per match, hardly the figures of someone getting a game purely on loyalty I wouldn't have thought.

I don't think his talent has diminished at all. But like everyone, there comes a point where the body can't do what the mind wants it to do. I think Kelly is at that stage.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

#MenzisBack

 

[FoolCat]

Predictions:

Most Touches: Guthrie
Most Goals: Hawkins/Stevie J (Vardy a roughie)
Best on Ground: Selwood
Sub: Cockatoo/Menzel/Gregson

#MenzelAlert
- 10-15 touches.
- 3-5 marks.
- 1-2 goals.

This is obviously if Menzel gets the green vest, how many touches/goals for the full match?

 

[Daniel McL]

This is obviously if Menzel gets the green vest, how many touches/goals for the full match?

Shall work into it with 30 touches, 10 marks & 5-10 goals surely

 

[Tackle_happy]

They used to do well in the wet when Bartel couldn't be stopped in the long sleeves and had strong bodies around him. Caddy is the next strongest body after Selwood and he's out. Blitz will have an even harder time jumping over Grundy or Witts who will kill him around the ground.

First use because of their rucks and a more heavily built midfield, it would take some outrageous heroics for Selwood to be able to drag this one across the line.

Big bodies sometimes, but it's about clean handling of the ball more so, even I know this from experience.

Geelong trains in it and can bank on those experiences better than most other teams.

 

[FoolCat]

My predictions :

Most Touches: Motlop - 31
Most Goals: Hawkins/Stevie J - 3
Best on Ground: Motlop
Sub: Gregson

 

[catempire]

Take it to the Gameday thread party people:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/round-22-geelong-v-collingwood.1109331/