honest thoughts on clarkson's future

[Skyfire15]

He needs another 2 years before we can actually (or fairly) grade his performance... His 2 years to date (18 months really) with the list he aquired is basically an installation phase. Another 2 years will allow him to *try* and implement what he set out to do.

I personally have my doubts as to what he is doing will work ie I don't believe players such as clarke, ladson, sewell will win you premierships (do you see the likes and size of these players @ WC and adel?) BUT that said, he deserves the chance to finish what he begun. I hope his reinstatement comes soon so he keeps playing the kids rather than playing more experienced sides which may inflate our W/L record during the year - but not help in the long run.. I cannot wait to see the likes of ellis, muston, dowler and little running around the G in the Brown and Gold -And in the end I feel Clarkson must atleast be given the chance to coach them!

 

[medusala]

As RustyHawk has stated, he is still a young coach learning the rungs and I think we should give him another year or 2 or perhaps maybe even 3.

Way, way too long. You dont need to give someone 5 years in the AFL to see whether or not they are up to the grade. If noone better is available and the jury is still out then why not give him a 12 mths extension? Its unlikely that anyone else is going to poach him.

 

[Hawkk]

Last year people were saying that the bulldogs were 2 years further advanced in their development than us which means that we should be at least 12 months closer by now

No it doesn't do the Maths.

Hawthorn 2005 was at the same stage in development as the Dogs of 2003

Hawthorn 2006 is where the Dogs were in 2004.

 

[illnino]

Last year people were saying that the bulldogs were 2 years further advanced in their development than us which means that we should be at least 12 months closer by now.

Thats like saying to someone that is 6 months older than you, that in 12 months youll be 6 months older than them......

 

[illnino]

Way, way too long. You dont need to give someone 5 years in the AFL to see whether or not they are up to the grade. If noone better is available and the jury is still out then why not give him a 12 mths extension? Its unlikely that anyone else is going to poach him.

My point being - give him an extension and lets just stick with 1 coach for a while.

If Ayres, Paegan or even Lethal were to take the reigns, god help us all. They were young and inexperienced too once. Lets just let him do what he says hes doing and if it doesn't work, well, won't he have egg on his face.....

 

[Gary Shadforth]

I think the club has to perserve with AC as he learns his trade and moulds this team into the game plan he wants to form for our future. I think the comittee must give him 2 more years.

Agree. In fact I feel it is the board's responsibility to stick with Clarkson as the incumbent board of the time new darn well that he was a rookie and at the same time we had, or will have, so many youngsters also having a lot to learn. A double whammy if you like. Our club had a lot of guts in doing that. Can anyone else recall in the modern era a team with a rookie coach and so many new recruits at the same time.

I have a feeling Clarko will get a two year extension when the board meets next Monday.

 

[medusala]

My point being - give him an extension and lets just stick with 1 coach for a while.

If Ayres, Paegan or even Lethal were to take the reigns, god help us all. They were young and inexperienced too once. Lets just let him do what he says hes doing and if it doesn't work, well, won't he have egg on his face.....

Schwab was a rookie too, as was Frawley. Giving them a new contract and time to learn etc clearly wasnt the answer. It was a very expensive mistake in terms of onfield performance and $.

Clarkson needs to show he actually has something to offer rather than excuses.

 

[Skyfire15]

Clarkson needs to show he actually has something to offer rather than excuses.

He will when he can Coach Ellis, Muston, Dowler in the senior lineup alongside Franklin, Roughead & Lewis... His 6 Prized drafts from his time as head coach. To be able to do this though he needs to be coach in 2007 and beyond.

Rounds 1-5 this year was a terrible outcome for us in that we were effectively teased by a decent draw and nice set of circumstances (no fevola and lloyd to play against) and in the end got too far ahead of ourselves... I would consider this side to be at the same place StK were at in 2000 - that is 2-3 years off making any considerable noise.

I can't see how a Matthews or the like would be able to do much more than what Clarkson currently is. The single reason Matthews has been able to resurect Brisbane's year and young list is cos he has a bloke called Jon Brown to direct all forward plays through.. a luxury he wouldn't have at Hawthorn!

 

[illnino]

Schwab was a rookie too, as was Frawley. Giving them a new contract and time to learn etc clearly wasnt the answer. It was a very expensive mistake in terms of onfield performance and $.

Clarkson needs to show he actually has something to offer rather than excuses.

Was waiting for someone to compare Clarko to Shwabb.

Dont be so silly . The difference is that we all knew how crap shwabb was within the first 12 months. If you didn't know that, then god help you.

Clarko actually shows some good signs and is very experimental with the hawks - sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. But to me, it is clear to see that he knows what he is trying to do, and is trying to do it, where as, Shwabb and Frawley........how do I say........Had No Idea.

 

[illnino]

He will when he can Coach Ellis, Muston, Dowler in the senior lineup alongside Franklin, Roughead & Lewis... His 6 Prized drafts from his time as head coach. To be able to do this though he needs to be coach in 2007 and beyond.

Rounds 1-5 this year was a terrible outcome for us in that we were effectively teased by a decent draw and nice set of circumstances (no fevola and lloyd to play against) and in the end got too far ahead of ourselves... I would consider this side to be at the same place StK were at in 2000 - that is 2-3 years off making any considerable noise.

I can't see how a Matthews or the like would be able to do much more than what Clarkson currently is. The single reason Matthews has been able to resurect Brisbane's year and young list is cos he has a bloke called Jon Brown to direct all forward plays through.. a luxury he wouldn't have at Hawthorn!

My thoughts exactly!

Also, just look at the experience most teams have compared to 3/4 of our team.

As some random coach once said - To be a good coach to a team, you need a good team to coach.

 

[Lukazzz777]

We (Hawthorn) would have to be the only club who plays our best and most dangerous player out of position. I'll never understand why any coach would even think about taking Hodge out of the engine room.

Because he is struggling with injury you pea brain. DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU KNOW MORE THAN OUR FULL TIME COACH !!! GEEZE YOU IDIOTS MAKE ME SICK.

Clarkson has been awesome and you are all ********s.

 

[hyperswivel]

Informed, witty, and likeable... Lukassssss is none of the above.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Because he is struggling with injury you pea brain. DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU KNOW MORE THAN OUR FULL TIME COACH !!! GEEZE YOU IDIOTS MAKE ME SICK.

Clarkson has been awesome and you are all ********s.

Get stuffed. One thing's for certain, I know one hell of a lot more than you ... about most things, manners being one of them. Can we now have some honest thoughts on the future of Lakazzz777? Not too bright I would think.

 

[medusala]

Also, just look at the experience most teams have compared to 3/4 of our team.

As some random coach once said - To be a good coach to a team, you need a good team to coach.

No doubt a good team can make a coach look good, Joyce a great example of that.

However, a good coach can get results out of a mediocre team. Wallet cops a fair amount of criticism but did well with a team with players like Croft and Kretiuk playing KPP. People rave about the Dogs but with a large % of the same players they were poor under Rohde, surely Eade's coaching has a bit to do with it. Ditto Brisbane under Merrett and Matthews, Adelaide under Ayres and Craig. Collingwood in 90 were a very average team as evidenced by them getting absolutely pumped by us very shortly before the finals. Plenty of examples of coaches getting teams to outperform.

As for Matthews arrival at Brisbane, Brown wasnt the dominating influence he is now.

In short the coach can make quite a difference. I think our list is good enough to win substantially more than 4 or 5 games a year.

 

[Hawk Dork]

No doubt a good team can make a coach look good, Joyce a great example of that..

And Barrassi (North),Malthouse (WCE),Jeans(Haw),Mathews(Briz).Sheedy(when he has a good team)

However, a good coach can get results out of a mediocre team. Wallet cops a fair amount of criticism but did well with a team with players like Croft and Kretiuk playing KPP. People rave about the Dogs but with a large % of the same players they were poor under Rohde, surely Eade's coaching has a bit to do with it.

Agree but low pick recruits comming on helps too

Ditto Brisbane under Merrett and Matthews, Adelaide under Ayres and Craig.

Timing and Development, Lethal had to wait for the Fitzroy players and all the ex under19 players to gell plus the added salry cap and AFL assistance to kick in. As for Adelaide they are fueled by perochial zeal and needed a SA to take over the rebuilding

Collingwood in 90 were a very average team as evidenced by them getting absolutely pumped by us very shortly before the finals.

We werent there to beat them in the finals Lethal said it himself

Plenty of examples of coaches getting teams to outperform.

Hawthorn against Briz last year and Geelong this year

As for Matthews arrival at Brisbane, Brown wasnt the dominating influence he is now.

Big players need time to mature

In short the coach can make quite a difference. I think our list is good enough to win substantially more than 4 or 5 games a year.

and we will when we get the experience

 

[The Kipster]

Everyone knows he Doggies carry the ball and have shots from 40 - 50M on the run, yet Clarko did nothing to stem this.
At the end of the third quarter they had Roughy and Buddy in the bench, how do you score goals with guy's like that on the bench.
At one stage we went long from 50m and Spida took a mark int he goal square which resulted in a goal this occured once more during the day which wnet hrough for a point.
With roughly 4 minutes on the clock to go, we are still chipping it around like we were in front, it is not hard to send the runner out and say "Kick long, only 4 mins left"
I am no expert coach but I can tell you from the above observations the coaching staff have a lot to learn and rumours are rife that they listen to no-one at the club with coaching nouse and prefer it that way. Don't you think Parko could offer some valuable advise?
Draw your own conclusions from this......

 

[illnino]

And Barrassi (North),Malthouse (WCE),Jeans(Haw),Mathews(Briz).Sheedy(when he has a good team)

Agree but low pick recruits comming on helps too

Timing and Development, Lethal had to wait for the Fitzroy players and all the ex under19 players to gell plus the added salry cap and AFL assistance to kick in. As for Adelaide they are fueled by perochial zeal and needed a SA to take over the rebuilding

We werent there to beat them in the finals Lethal said it himself

Hawthorn against Briz last year and Geelong this year

Big players need time to mature

and we will when we get the experience

Thats pretty much exactly what I woulda posted. You leagend Hawk Dork. That saved me heaps of time!

 

[illnino]

Everyone knows he Doggies carry the ball and have shots from 40 - 50M on the run, yet Clarko did nothing to stem this.
At the end of the third quarter they had Roughy and Buddy in the bench, how do you score goals with guy's like that on the bench.
At one stage we went long from 50m and Spida took a mark int he goal square which resulted in a goal this occured once more during the day which wnet hrough for a point.
With roughly 4 minutes on the clock to go, we are still chipping it around like we were in front, it is not hard to send the runner out and say "Kick long, only 4 mins left"
I am no expert coach but I can tell you from the above observations the coaching staff have a lot to learn and rumours are rife that they listen to no-one at the club with coaching nouse and prefer it that way. Don't you think Parko could offer some valuable advise?
Draw your own conclusions from this......

Mate. These players are not machines and need to be rested. They do tire and wear out. Without Roughy and Franklin, whats wrong with Williams, Dixon, Everitt and Croad kicking goals. We are not a 2 man team.

Plus - I'd stick with Clarko over Parko - ANYDAY.

 

[illnino]

Because he is struggling with injury you pea brain. DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU KNOW MORE THAN OUR FULL TIME COACH !!! GEEZE YOU IDIOTS MAKE ME SICK.

Clarkson has been awesome and you are all ********s.

From: www.hawthornfc.com.au

5 June, 2006
However, Hodge was sure of his own fitness after doubts were raised last week when members of the Western Bulldogs spotted the Hawk at a medical clinic.

But Hodge said he was 'fine' and was never in doubt of lining up against the Dogs last Saturday.

"I'm fine, I was fine all last week so I'm not sure … or I know where they're coming from, but I was in no doubt of not playing," he said.

"I saw a couple of Bulldogs players there and it was just a little bit of talk and how I pulled up after the Sydney game when I got a hit, that's where it came from. But it's no problems."

Full Story: http://hawthornfc.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=271542
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well don't you feel like a DI@K!

 

[burner1]

strange how the tide has turned, thought are showing more signs of improvement than last year yet some supporters arent happy. With all this talk about good coaches good teams etc our current best 22 has many holes in it and is not top 4 prob even top 8 material.

While it would be nice have pinched a few more wins in the last 2 months I dont think many could argue that we're drastically underperforming or underachieving under AC. For where are players are in skill and terms of expeiernce for the younger guys we are about were we should be, yet seem to be showing signs of improvement. The best coach in the AFL couldnt get our current list winning a flag this year. AC has yet to prove he is a super coach as they takes time to prove (mathews, malthouses, sheedys reputations werent built in a year and a half) but so far he is doing a solid job and appears to not be a dud like some others in the afl....

As Hawk Dork said its about timing and development. AC is showing that he is good at development, he is good at putting systems and plans in place, and his match day coaching is on the improve. All we now need is time for our players to mature and develop. And patience.
If in two years AC is not performing then he wont get another extension, but we wont have missed our shot at the premiership (ala st kilda) as our core in hodge etc will still be only 24,25 and our youngsters primed to step up.

 

[Boyler_Room]

Why coaches do well with lists that probably aren't as good is respect and belief. At a time when we where trying to change the culture at Hawthorn we needed to get a coach that the players would respect and follow orders of without question. So what did we do we chose an unproven/doubtful coach for the third time in a row. I'm sick of taking these gambles, aren't you? You need a big name up front as long as you have good tacticians behind and the players respect you it could be as a former player at least and a proven coach as well would be a bonus. Matthews as a rookie coach would have commanded respect and got more out of his players so not only does he live and die by his or tactics it's what he gets out of his players that extra effort gained by respect. When Lethal puts a player on someone they believe they can beat them. I had never heard of Clarkson before he was appointed at Hawthorn how would you change the culture at Hawthorn if you go for a rookie AFL senior coach and want the players to respect and follow what he is trying to do?

By the way I realise this post hasn't helped the cause, if the fans, president and the media lay into Clarkson we only undermind what he is trying to do. The players will start to believe what everyone else is saying. You don't see this kinda talk about the established coaches, it takes a lot more bad performance for them to be questioned.

Oh yeah and Lethal did see Brown's potential and made him into a footballer, we don't have a Brown because we had Nick Holland. It's not about coaching the team you have it's also about recruiting and choosing players, the right players, we may have potential in our list but the system is supposed to help teams at the bottom and we have been at the bottom consistently for the past 10 years, something is wrong.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Clarko was on Adelaide radio tonight (5AA). Those prize clowns KG & Cornes criticizing everything Clarko, Kennett and Hawthorn does, and I thought Clarko handled it well ... especially since that idiot Cornes kept calling him Alastair Lynch. He really is a fool.

Anyway, back to Clarko, he answered one criticism I have made in respect to other club's youngsters coming on quicker than Hawthorn's. He said that other clubs recruited midfielders who you can sneak onto the field and they can run around the wing and flanks picking up easy kicks whereas our recruits being taller key position players have to win hard balls most of the time. I thought that was a good point.

He said the club could have hung onto players like Hay, Thompson etc, but they knew they would never go anywhere with those players in the team and decided to give the Hawthorn club the best chance of winning a flag in the next few years. Makes sense.

He sung the praises of Roughead in particular but said he was also pleased with the other youngsters especially Lewis and Franklin. I especially loved the time Cornes tried to criticise him for comments made last year about Shaun Burgoyne's salary, asking whether he should be commenting on this area. He said, "You guys ask the questions .. if you're not prepared for an honest answer then don't ask the quesiotns". Well said Clarko.

He finished by saying there was an agreement with the Hawthorn Board that he meet with them after 18 months to review his performance, and that period is up in 3-4 weeks time. Although I am not totally sold on Clarko, I think the Board should show some faith in him unless there is an obvious alternative direction we can take.

 

[illnino]

Clarko was on Adelaide radio tonight (5AA). Those prize clowns KG & Cornes criticizing everything Clarko, Kennett and Hawthorn does, and I thought Clarko handled it well ... especially since that idiot Cornes kept calling him Alastair Lynch. He really is a fool.

Anyway, back to Clarko, he answered one criticism I have made in respect to other club's youngsters coming on quicker than Hawthorn's. He said that other clubs recruited midfielders who you can sneak onto the field and they can run around the wing and flanks picking up easy kicks whereas our recruits being taller key position players have to win hard balls most of the time. I thought that was a good point.

He said the club could have hung onto players like Hay, Thompson etc, but they knew they would never go anywhere with those players in the team and decided to give the Hawthorn club the best chance of winning a flag in the next few years. Makes sense.

He sung the praises of Roughead in particular but said he was also pleased with the other youngsters especially Lewis and Franklin. I especially loved the time Cornes tried to criticise him for comments made last year about Shaun Burgoyne's salary, asking whether he should be commenting on this area. He said, "You guys ask the questions .. if you're not prepared for an honest answer then don't ask the quesiotns". Well said Clarko.

He finished by saying there was an agreement with the Hawthorn Board that he meet with them after 18 months to review his performance, and that period is up in 3-4 weeks time. Although I am not totally sold on Clarko, I think the Board should show some faith in him unless there is an obvious alternative direction we can take.

As I said earlier here somewhere....Clarko actually seems to have a plan for the hawks and is at least trying to implement that plan into action..........more than what I can say for past hawks coaches........give him an extension!

 

[medusala]

Agree but low pick recruits comming on helps too

Eade only has a couple that Rohde didnt.

Timing and Development, Lethal had to wait for the Fitzroy players and all the ex under19 players to gell plus the added salry cap and AFL assistance to kick in. As for Adelaide they are fueled by perochial zeal and needed a SA to take over the rebuilding

How many of the Roy boys played a big part at the Lions? Two? They improved immediately under him. Salary cap barely mattered, merely a Collingwood whinge factor.

We werent there to beat them in the finals Lethal said it himself

True, but they were a very average team. How many people would be prepared to argue the Swans had the best list last year?

Hawthorn against Briz last year and Geelong this year

Geelong are imploding.

and we will when we get the experience

Plenty of clubs have said that in the past with their much vaunted youth policies. There seems to be an almost universal thought that get a bunch of early draft picks and then you will magically improve.

It doesnt necessarily work ie Freo.

 

[The Kipster]

Mate. These players are not machines and need to be rested. They do tire and wear out. Without Roughy and Franklin, whats wrong with Williams, Dixon, Everitt and Croad kicking goals. We are not a 2 man team.

Plus - I'd stick with Clarko over Parko - ANYDAY.

As mentioned, if they were off the field - why wasn't Spida placed in the goal square so we could kick long to break it up a bit instead of chipping the pill around.
As for machines if you train 10 months a year and can't run out a game or at least be rested somewhere in the field somethings amiss AKA Peter Featherby 40 possessions a game as a mid-fielder back in the late 70's early 80's those guy's had engines and didn't train as much as the new generations.
I also stated that the new coaches don't LISTEN to anyone, I am not saying sack Clarko for Parko.....I am saying being open to advise is about opening up your thoughts and processes and has no detrimental effect to the way a person want's to run things.