Aboriginal & TSI Is drafting out of remote communities viable?

[ManOfClay]

Zephaniah Skinner lasted a season and a bit but has told the Dogs he's going home to his community. Jurrah has his much publicised issues. Relton Roberts, Austin Wonneamirri, Isiah Stevens, Troy Taylor. All indigenous players moving from their home communities. Waylen Manson was ignored at draft time because of being a risk he'd go home too.

I believe clubs will now stop trying to make something at AFL level of guys like this. Too much of a risk imo. This is a hard topic to discuss without touching the R word, but it's more complicated than that. The intrinsic link to their home country and family is too much.

Thoughts?

 

[caterina]

Hi Matt Rendell.

 

[Scotland]

I think an intermediate step between remote community and AFL club is crucial.

It's a goldfish in a bag scenario. If the water in the bag is allowed to equalise its temperature with that in the pond, the goldfish is much more likely to survive. If you just chuck the goldfish into the pond its chances of survival are less.

 

[Quivorir]

It's a goldfish in a bag scenario. If the water in the bag is allowed to equalise its temperature with that in the pond, the goldfish is much more likely to survive. If you just chuck the goldfish into the pond its chances of survival are less.

I never knew that.

 

[campbell]

If any of the people here every lived in say aurukun, you would know how hard it is to exist there, let alone in the way big smoke.

Let alone live away from your mob, and culture.

Not racist. just fact.

 

[RobbieK]

I don't think it is racist to consider the impact cultural differences will have on an individual's ability to adapt to a new, high pressure situation. It is common sense - you aren't just drafting a skill set or a physiological specimen, you are drafting a person who needs to be able to put their skills and athleticism into action on the football field, on the training ground, in a professional environment. That isn't a situation in which everyone, even with the requisite abilities, will thrive.

Will we see players from remote Australia continue to be drafted? Certainly, clubs will continue to look for the next Goodes, Franklin, Rioli, O'Loughlin, Winmar, Long, Krackeour etc. Will we see a greater sensitivity on the part of clubs to the particular needs of these players? You would certainly hope so.

I mean, look at a guy like Cyril Rioli - grew up in the Tiwi Islands as a kid and then moved to Darwin before heading down to Melbourne in his teens. Years before he is draftable he is in a position to experience life in the city, a life more like the one he will live as an AFL footballer. It seems like the guys that have really failed to handle the transition are the ones that were more or less thrown in the deep-end.

I wonder how many of these guys really wanted to play in the AFL and how many were convinced that it is what they "should" do without really understanding what it meant. It seems like people assume that turning down the chance at playing in the AFL is a sign or weakness or a non-sensical decision (this is true of players from all backgrounds, not just from remote Aboriginal communities). Just because you have the ability to be an AFL player doesn't mean you should do it or should even want to do it.

In the end, though, this is about individuals. Cultural background has a role in shaping an individual, but only to an extent. Maybe some clubs haven't done enough in the past to take that into account, maybe the fact that clubs passed on Waylen Manson shows that they are taking it into account a little more now - perhaps it is actually the best thing for him that he wasn't drafted, it does seem like he wasn't going to be able to make the transition even if he did want to. That doesn't mean that the next kid that pops up in an obscure league won't have scouts all over them - they will probably take a closer look at their personality and experience off the field, just as it seems the interviews with all players at the draft camp has taken on greater importance for clubs.

 

[fabulousphil]

I don't think it is racist to consider the impact cultural differences will have on an individual's ability to adapt to a new, high pressure situation. It is common sense - you aren't just drafting a skill set or a physiological specimen, you are drafting a person who needs to be able to put their skills and athleticism into action on the football field, on the training ground, in a professional environment. That isn't a situation in which everyone, even with the requisite abilities, will thrive.

Will we see players from remote Australia continue to be drafted? Certainly, clubs will continue to look for the next Goodes, Franklin, Rioli, O'Loughlin, Winmar, Long, Krackeour etc. Will we see a greater sensitivity on the part of clubs to the particular needs of these players? You would certainly hope so.

I mean, look at a guy like Cyril Rioli - grew up in the Tiwi Islands as a kid and then moved to Darwin before heading down to Melbourne in his teens. Years before he is draftable he is in a position to experience life in the city, a life more like the one he will live as an AFL footballer. It seems like the guys that have really failed to handle the transition are the ones that were more or less thrown in the deep-end.

I wonder how many of these guys really wanted to play in the AFL and how many were convinced that it is what they "should" do without really understanding what it meant. It seems like people assume that turning down the chance at playing in the AFL is a sign or weakness or a non-sensical decision (this is true of players from all backgrounds, not just from remote Aboriginal communities). Just because you have the ability to be an AFL player doesn't mean you should do it or should even want to do it.

In the end, though, this is about individuals. Cultural background has a role in shaping an individual, but only to an extent. Maybe some clubs haven't done enough in the past to take that into account, maybe the fact that clubs passed on Waylen Manson shows that they are taking it into account a little more now - perhaps it is actually the best thing for him that he wasn't drafted, it does seem like he wasn't going to be able to make the transition even if he did want to. That doesn't mean that the next kid that pops up in an obscure league won't have scouts all over them - they will probably take a closer look at their personality and experience off the field, just as it seems the interviews with all players at the draft camp has taken on greater importance for clubs.

Fair enough post, although there is a theory floating around that goes something like .... if you have some God given talent ... you should use it to the best of your ability.

 

[Upgrayedd]

For every small town Aborigional who has gone home many have stayed and become very good players Ie-Michael Long/Lewis Jetta/Cyril Rioli/Patty Ryder and your seeing

A bridge year in State Leagues or identifying and giving some guys boarding oppotunities (Franklin/Rioli/Motlop) is always pretty good idea.

Remote Communities in W.A/N.T and SA are by far the biggest talent pool of AFL footballers, I dare-say The Kimberley Region if developed properly could easily trump the Southern part of W.A If the AFL got their act together our League could easily become much stronger and could be the foundation of 1-2 more teams as well

 

[ManOfClay]

To be clear I was differentiating between guys like Rioli who has had the assimilation period (for want of a better word).

Guys like Jurrah, Skinner, Wonna were plucked out of small communities, although Skinner had played a bit in the WAFL iirc.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

I lived for several years on the Tiwi Islands north of Darwin. The cultural shock of going from Bathurst or Melville Island to Darwin was an issue, let alone moving to Melbourne, Sydney etc.

The issues are multiple:
- loneliness from family, both immediate and extended

- cultural with absence of belonging with ceremonial and family commitments

- cultural clashes at the club and wider AFL and local community ie coach demanding direct eye contact from a player, that culturally avoids eye contact as a point of respect

- feelings of inadequacy with level of academic involvement needed

- weather (can be a huge issue, as many have never experienced this level of cold) (I remember after a game in the Adelaide Hills on a bitterly cold winters day, with an NT team, a group of remote community players, coming forward and asking me if the people were made to live here?)

And all of these and many others are before a player has even pulled on a boot, or run a pre-season time trial.

There is no doubt that there is tremendous talent in the remote communities throughout Australia. There is also no doubt that the difficulty with moving straight to an AFL club is becoming greater.

I would suggest that as a possible starting point, that either the AFL or individual clubs, be allowed to bring identified younger players to bigger centres, cities, boarding schools, or host families, for education and acclimatisation, before they become eligible to be drafted.

This would be an extension to the international and various other programs that are offered already by the AFL.

If the younger player didn't want too, or wasn't good enough to be taken by a club, they have had the experience and opportunity for further education and experience.

This could be a realistic and valid extension program by the AFL, for the benefit of both remote aboriginal community players and the AFL.

 

[scottwade]

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/indigenous-footballers-win-15m-academy-20120316-1vayu.html

It can also be revealed that a $15 million centre aimed at equipping indigenous youths from remote communities with the skills to make it in the AFL - to be called the Michael Long Academy - is expected to open in Darwin next year (2013).

The Michael Long Academy will boast the same sort of elite facilities as those enjoyed by AFL clubs. It will be staffed by indigenous men who will act in the role of mentors and have accommodation for 70 young indigenous people, male and female.
The academy will include educational programs and stress the importance of participants taking up leadership roles within their communities. "Not everyone who passes through the academy will become an AFL footballer," Long said. "But hopefully they will become good citizens."

The brainchild of Long and AFL-NT CEO Tony Frawley, the academy has taken four years of intense lobbying by both men. Frawley pointed to the recent cases of Relton Roberts, Troy Taylor and Shane Thorne, who were drafted by AFL clubs but returned home after a year.
"We'll be holding them until they're ready to go," said Frawley. This could mean young players staying at the academy until they are 21, older than most AFL rookies.

 

[Kwality]

For every small town Aborigional who has gone home many have stayed and become very good players Ie-Michael Long/Lewis Jetta/Cyril Rioli/Patty Ryder and your seeing

A bridge year in State Leagues or identifying and giving some guys boarding oppotunities (Franklin/Rioli/Motlop) is always pretty good idea.

Remote Communities in W.A/N.T and SA are by far the biggest talent pool of AFL footballers, I dare-say The Kimberley Region if developed properly could easily trump the Southern part of W.A If the AFL got their act together our League could easily become much stronger and could be the foundation of 1-2 more teams as well

I'd describe your claim as nonsense.

Lets have a look at what, if anything, the guys you mention share

Michael Long & Cyril Rioli share a path pioneered a few years back - 1972 was it, when Sebastian Rioli went to play for South Fremantle, then Maurice followed to South Freo, then to Melbourne, then Ravioli to South Freo the the Bombers. Michael Long went to the Bombers via West Torrens winning the 1988 B&F - married to one of Sebbys sisters.

Jetta played in a WAFL 3rds premiership in 2007 at Swan Districts, played at Bridgetown in 2008, back to Swan Districts 2009, then debuted for Sydney in 2010.

Paddy Ryder is a nephew of Billy Dempsey who played WAFL footy out of Darwin the late 1950s, AFL Team of the Century, West Perth team of the century - Footscray tried to get him to go to Melbourne but VFL footy had little interest.
Paddy was recruited from East Freo, the WAFL team his dad played for.

The comparison attempted by delirium is figment of a very poor imagination.

Re Buddy, went to Wesley College for his final 2 years of schooling.

 

[fabulousphil]

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/indigenous-footballers-win-15m-academy-20120316-1vayu.html

Opportunity awaits AFL Cape York House
Opportunity awaits AFL Cape York House




The AFL will be keeping a close eye on how the new AFL Cape York House program runs when it takes off early next year.
A Sherrin-shaped roof will feature on the building with residential quarters to house 48 indigenous students who will attend school in Cairns.
The boarders at Cape York House will play for a newly-created club in the Cairns junior competition and with a footy oval their new backyard, should give teams a run for their money.
Partnerships with local schools and James Cook University will ensure students potential career interests are covered and aim at providing long-term professional development for the local indigenous community.

“It’s unique in the communal aspect and its cutting edge for us,” AFL community engagement officer Jason Mifsud said.

“It’s an interesting case study for the AFL to see how it works.”

With the success of the initial Cape York House program, Mifsud talked about the prospect of taking in the Indigenous TAC Cup and AFL recruits each year to provide tutoring and professional development as one example of how the prototype could be adapted.

“It’s definitely transferable,” he said.

Mifsud and former Brisbane Lion triple premiership player turned AFL engagement and talent co-ordinator, Chris Johnson roamed the building site yesterday.

“It’s an opportunity. An option to have a good crack at life,” Johnson said.

“You talk about leadership in footy. Here you’ll have your junior kids aspiring to graduate to the senior campus.”

Johnson also said the idea of playing for their own club only strengthened the community environment of the project.

“From there, you’ll get half a dozen in a state team or rep team there are things you can step on top of that,” he said.

Johnson and Mifsud will travel to Bamaga next week for the annual Chris Johnson Cup, a round-robin tournament that features Indigenous players from Cairns and Cape York.

A girls and boys Crusaders representative side is selected from the carnival

http://www.aflq.com.au/index.php?id...s]=1575&tx_ttnews[backPid]=4&cHash=9f93e150ae

 

[fabulousphil]

I'd describe your claim as nonsense.

Lets have a look at what, if anything, the guys you mention share

Michael Long & Cyril Rioli share a path pioneered a few years back - 1972 was it, when Sebastian Rioli went to play for South Fremantle, then Maurice followed to South Freo, then to Melbourne, then Ravioli to South Freo the the Bombers. Michael Long went to the Bombers via West Torrens winning the 1988 B&F - married to one of Sebbys sisters.

Jetta played in a WAFL 3rds premiership in 2007 at Swan Districts, played at Bridgetown in 2008, back to Swan Districts 2009, then debuted for Sydney in 2010.

Paddy Ryder is a nephew of Billy Dempsey who played WAFL footy out of Darwin the late 1950s, AFL Team of the Century, West Perth team of the century - Footscray tried to get him to go to Melbourne but VFL footy had little interest.
Paddy was recruited from East Freo, the WAFL team his dad played for.

The comparison attempted by delirium is figment of a very poor imagination.

Re Buddy, went to Wesley College for his final 2 years of schooling.

I would think that the Kimberleys has not been anywhere as 'developed' as the south of the state, i think he makes a reasonable point.

 

[Jaeger]

It's a harder move than for an Irish, Canadian, New Zealand player.

They don't speak English, and live an entirely different lifestyle to western civilisation. I commend them all for having a go, especially the ones that end up playing AFL games. It would be incredibly difficult, even with the support they get.

I had no idea about any of this before we drafted Amos Frank, who is still on our list. It's hard to believe they live in Australia.

A lot of them have commitments and obligations to their communities, and also prefer that lifestyle. Their lifestyle.

Unfortunately, the Bulldogs, Melbourne and Richmond will probably be hesitant in picking players from remote communities in the future. It's hard work and it hasn't been a success. Well it has and it hasn't.

Is it viable? I think so. Clubs do a good job of nurturing them and will continue to improve in this department.
There's just way too much talent around for them not to. Jurrah was a gun on his day, Wonneamirri was very good and Skinner could have been anything.

 

[Rob]

It would be interesting to see what recruiters think, because it's those guys' opinions that matter. If they think it's not worth it, then clubs will stop recruiting from there. Unfortunately the way Rendell was hung out to dry will be enough motivation for people to say nothing at all, and then everyone will wonder why the number of recruits from those areas drop.

The Cape York centre sounds like a pretty positive idea though, as long as it's about life skills with footy being the motivator. Sounds a lot like the Clontarf system.

 

[bombermick]

Taking them out of home for their final high school years could help them acclimatise, but many may not be able to adjust even to that. Adjusting to an individualist society with a largely foreign language is far harder than anything any Irish recruit has faced.

 

[Off The Couch]

For every small town Aborigional who has gone home many have stayed and become very good players Ie-Michael Long/Lewis Jetta/Cyril Rioli/Patty Ryder and your seeing

A bridge year in State Leagues or identifying and giving some guys boarding oppotunities (Franklin/Rioli/Motlop) is always pretty good idea.

Remote Communities in W.A/N.T and SA are by far the biggest talent pool of AFL footballers, I dare-say The Kimberley Region if developed properly could easily trump the Southern part of W.A If the AFL got their act together our League could easily become much stronger and could be the foundation of 1-2 more teams as well

http://www.clontarf.org.au/



I think you will find the retention rates for WA indigenous players far outweighs that of remote communities elsewhere in the country partly because of the Clontarf program. Gerard Neesham has always been way ahead of his time and what started in Perth back in 2000 is now throughout the country and producing fantastic results - naturally results from those schools who have only started the program in the last few years are going to have to wait to bear fruit but at least I think it's heading in the right direction. Players that have come out of the academy include Andrew Krakeour, Mark Williams, Michael Johnson, Paddy Ryder, Neville Jetta, Chris Yarran, Lewis Broome - so it seems whatever Gerard has put in place is paying dividends and hopefully the other colleges that have now opened around the country will do the same thing.

 

[MUYB]

It's only natural that they have a hard time adjusting. They are completely removed from family and anything resembling the culture they grew up with. There's likely no-one in the city that shares their first language with them. It would be like plonking kurt tippett down in a small town in the Sudan, almost anyone will struggle under those conditions.

 

[Rack Watts]

As an indigenous Australian, it's very sad seeing these kids not being able to make the most of these financial and life quality improvement opportunities, there's so much more pressure on them. I have enough trouble coming from Hobart to Melbourne for a weekend trip and not feeling totally out of places, I can only imagine what it would be like for them!
I hope Anthony Tipungwuti makes a smoother, transition seeing as he's been in Gippsland for the last 3 years as he moved to Victoria to learn english and get himself a good education.
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/...ou-just-want-to-have-a-go-20120919-2670x.html
I'd love to have him at Essendon to keep our proud indigenous history burning bright.

 

[WCE_phil]

No

 

[caterina]

It would be like plonking kurt tippett down in a small town in the Sudan

Can anyone arrange this? Anyone? PLEASE?

 

[Upgrayedd]

As an indigenous Australian, it's very sad seeing these kids not being able to make the most of these financial and life quality improvement opportunities, there's so much more pressure on them. I have enough trouble coming from Hobart to Melbourne for a weekend trip and not feeling totally out of places, I can only imagine what it would be like for them!
I hope Anthony Tipungwuti makes a smoother, transition seeing as he's been in Gippsland for the last 3 years as he moved to Victoria to learn english and get himself a good education.
http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/...ou-just-want-to-have-a-go-20120919-2670x.html
I'd love to have him at Essendon to keep our proud indigenous history burning bright.

I think the Financial thing rings true, A lot of the talented players up north dont have the resources to really be able to come down to perth for a while and give it a real crack, It seems only the guys with buckletloads of flair get noticed and get the oppotunity to achieve the dream.

http://www.clontarf.org.au/



I think you will find the retention rates for WA indigenous players far outweighs that of remote communities elsewhere in the country partly because of the Clontarf program. Gerard Neesham has always been way ahead of his time and what started in Perth back in 2000 is now throughout the country and producing fantastic results - naturally results from those schools who have only started the program in the last few years are going to have to wait to bear fruit but at least I think it's heading in the right direction. Players that have come out of the academy include Andrew Krakeour, Mark Williams, Michael Johnson, Paddy Ryder, Neville Jetta, Chris Yarran, Lewis Broome - so it seems whatever Gerard has put in place is paying dividends and hopefully the other colleges that have now opened around the country will do the same thing.

Hack of a coach but as you've put it, about 15 years and counting ahead of everyone else in terms of developing indigenous talent.

 

[joeyavalanche]

Unfortunately the strike rate that these guys are going back home at is alarming.
Clubs would be investing a lot of extra time and resources to get these guys in and are seeing zero in return.
Especially with the value of the draft these days, I can't see many clubs clinging to the hope.

You can offer these kids from remote communities all the money and resources they need but when these things just aren't important to their culture there's no need for them to work for it and that's before the homesickness etc

I hope this centre in NT goes well!

 

[royals1922]

Read up on Lewis Broome- the ex Eagle- there are some difficulties involved....