Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[Jello_B]

Is this the same Churchill that let millions die in south Asia in 1943? Same Churchill that built concentration camps in Kenya in the 50s so his military could torture locals? That Churchill?

He had moral clarity did he?

Are you sure he wasn't just a brutal racist campaigner with no real redeeming features?

anyway...

If Iran is Nazi Germany where are the pogroms against Jewish Iranians.

And at the same time...

See the bolded? Why must we do that? There's parallels happening in the West bank I spose, on a smaller scale.

Is that what you're talking about?

Is that why we must see Oct 7th as a modern Kristallnacht ... so we're blinded to the events in the west bank where entire villages are being told they have a day to leave or they'll be killed by the occupying power?

Nazi Germany had conquered multiple countries, had a massive defence force and advance weaponry. Europe was on its knees.
Hamas operate out of tunnels with archaic weaponry and haven’t conquered anything. Israel have always had their foot on the throat of Hamas.
Churchills situation was vastly different to this one.

 

[Jello_B]

The more I contemplate the situation Israel was in after October 7 the more I track towards they should have done nothing initially.

• take a breath get the full support of the international community
• be very deliberate and targeted in their response. Work with Palestinians (those that they can) in finding and eliminating key Hamas people.
• negotiate the safe release of hostages. Seems like Hamas would have come to the table for this. More hostages survive.
• leverage the event to strengthen defence infrastructure and processes.

I’ve stopped short of “kumbaya” (like stop illegally settling land) because at the end of the day they were doing that anyway.

 

[Jello_B]

Please don't assume by this response, that it suggests my unconditional support for Israel's government or it's war machine.



Good, then they should explain.



I've always said the settlers should be stopped and I would like to see them all removed. Are you aware that there's a lot of shifty legal ways Israel can take that land, including buying it and I know this goes on.



We do that here as well. Only recently the High Court ordered many people released out of indefinite detention, three or four of them have been arrested since they were set free.

Of course it's wrong to detain people indefinitely without charge or trial and on the presumption that they might commit an offense. It's particularly heinous when it's children.



Yep.

I’ve got no issues with anything you’ve posted here. But I can’t rationalise anything you or I have posted (we are agreeing) to Israel are going over and above to act in the rules of war. I mean, as a start, the international community is largely asking them to stop what they are doing because they ain’t going over snd above to act in the rules of war, and they are ignoring them.

 

[PieLebo87]

This’ll piss a few pro-Zionists off that are in here.

 

[PieLebo87]

While I don't think all members of the IDF are Mary Poppins and I'm sure none of them would hesitate to shoot under any perceived threat, I'm equally sure that in circumstances of so many against them now, Israel will be going above and beyond to make sure they are acting within the rules of war.

Come on Kurve surely even you don’t believe this anymore, do you? We’re now at almost 20,000 Palestinian civilians dead, we’re at over 4,000 children dead.

You still believe Israel are going above and beyond to make sure they are acting within the rules of war? You cannot be serious when you write that.

EDIT: Apologies, I responded to the above before getting to the next page which also had generated a few other people questioning the same thing. I wouldn’t have posted it had I seen a few others question you on it already.

 

[leon123]

Kurve, you still going with the line the idf are going above and beyond the rules of war.... or some facts getting in the way of your personal, lets say views

 

[Smeg Head]

This’ll piss a few pro-Zionists off that are in here.

Instagram has that directly tagged as false before loading.

 

[Chief]

Honestly it would have been horrific for the kids at the rave if they were off their faces, especially tripping hard or being all MDed up and then some mad campaigner starts shooting all your friends ... be a horrible last few moments.

Pretty horrible having a rave outside a massive prison.

 

[Roby]

Probably worth noting that since Israel have declared a formal war, all the people they killed should be considered legitimate combatants not automatically declared terrorists.

Have a look at this video.

I'm not expert in bombs, but according to this, bombs dropped on Gaza are for maximum damage and much worse than dropped in Iraqi war.

 

[PieLebo87]

Instagram has that directly tagged as false before loading.

Did you actually read the fact check?

The very definition of clutching at straws. Just because ‘three claims’ of the information share ‘gets validated’ doesn’t make the whole video less informational or that most aspects of it be less truth telling. Not that you’d care…

 

[leon123]

Did you actually read the fact check?

The very definition of clutching at straws. Just because ‘three claims’ of the information share ‘gets validated’ doesn’t make the whole video less informational or that most aspects of it be less truth telling. Not that you’d care…

Pieleb, please be fair, his name is smeghead, be grateful he can type a sentence... encourage him, reading will be his next challenge

 

[ferball]

Pretty horrible having a rave outside a massive prison.

It wasn't right outside it tho, it was over 5 km away. It was between two kibbutz so might have been connected to one or both of them.

 

[Roby]

This’ll piss a few pro-Zionists off that are in here.

I've mentioned this before, amongst a billion other things, that the silence from Israel is telling, the lack of videos from October 7th from the IDF is telling.

I would not be surprised if they shot the hell out of their own civilians, burned them to a crisp and then said it was Hamas.

All we've seen is burned bodies from October 7th but no videos of how it happened.

I think it was Saint that posted an article earlier in the Haaretz that says about 20 IDF soldiers had been killed by their own forces.

One thing is certain, like the USA, Israel is s**t at actually winning wars, but very good at killing civilians.

 

[ferball]

I don't think it's for you or me to make that judgement or attempt to discredit the way they're processing the October 7 attack, if you're not Jewish.

Its one thing for someone who is Jewish, especially Jewish Israeli, to be triggered by that attack. No doubt Hamas intended that.

Its not anything like Krystallnacht tho.

 

[Kurve]

Both videos have been posted here in this thread, side by side. It’s clearly staged.

See post 11566

They probably are Hamas mixed up with civilians but the image presenting the left hand right hand switch is mirror reversing of the still image. Not two takes, it's the same image mirror reversed.

 

[Smeg Head]

Did you actually read the fact check?

The very definition of clutching at straws. Just because ‘three claims’ of the information share ‘gets validated’ doesn’t make the whole video less informational or that most aspects of it be less truth telling. Not that you’d care…

The guy behind the mic is lying though so the fact check is pulling that up. 'Didn't torture civilians' yeah, burning them alive in shelters isn't torturing them?

Mixing in credible statements with lies is one way to try and move the story one way of the other, and that one post was using lots of the tried and true disinformation tactics.

 

[Blue1980]

I can't be ****ed going back through everyone's posts, but it's amazing that this seems to be the consensus.

I'm firmly of the view however that they would absolutely have to stop all forms of warfare in that event.

That is living in a world where Israel weren’t doing anything prior to October 7, which isn’t the case.

 

[Blue1980]

we import next to nothing from Israel. Most of the big-ticket items the avg joe consumer couldn't even really boycott if they wanted too.

Australia Imports from Israel - 2024 Data 2025 Forecast 1988-2023 Historical

Australia Imports from Israel was US$547.01 Million during 2023, according to the United Nations COMTRADE database on international trade. Australia Imports from Israel - data, historical chart and statistics - was last updated on May of 2024.

tradingeconomics.com

Might make a few news limited/fairfax journalists sad they don’t get pampered trips over there if we boycott them.

 

[Blue1980]

Sorry if this sounds a bit dumb.

The US gives Israel white phosphorus, Israel uses white phosphorus, US are concerned.

What did they expect Israel to do with the weapons provided?

This seems strange to me, just like the US supplying cluster bombs to Ukraine, even though the US is a country that enforces a ban on their use.

Yes act shocked when Israel use what they gave them.

 

[Blue1980]

Not get caught

Israel’s defence maybe similar to Homers.

 

[Blue1980]

So what is the difference between the censorship in China and Russia and Israel?

Oh that’s right Israel claims to be a democratic country.

One has US backing and a puppet state in the Middle East for their own interests.

 

[Blue1980]

Kristallnacht or The Night of Broken Glass 10th November 1938, was the signal and the prelude to the Final Solution and the murder of six million Jews during the Holocuast.

The Nazi Party's SS, SA, Hitler Youth and German civilians attacked, Jews were beaten and murdered, their homes, businesses and synagogues ransacked and destroyed, thousands were taken and sent to death camps.

After the Nazis had conquered much of Europe including France, there was pressure on Churchill to come to an agreement with Hitler but Churchill understood with moral clarity, what they were dealing with and that the Nazi regime couldn't and shouldn't be accommodated or negotiated with, they had to be defeated. The reason he gave as key to this understanding was Kristallnacht.

You must be able to see why Israeli Jews would draw parallels to The Night of Broken Glass, if on a smaller scale thus far, yet bearing in mind Hamas is simply a proxy for Iran, and understand why alarm bells are going off and the western world is getting jumpy.

There is no genocide of the Israel planned and it would be impossible to pull off with the military might of the US and the entire western world behind them.

Meanwhile there is an actual genocide going on that Israel are committing in Gaza.

 

[Blue1980]

The goal was to draw international condemnation against Israel for their response and force a wider conflict imo. We might be on the cusp of WWIII. Whether the allies of Hamas will follow through (as promised imo) remains to be seen.



I agree it's possibly a genocide.

However, I don't believe Israel is purposefully targeting women and children, Hamas fighters being difficult to distinguish given they've ditched their uniforms.

Killing 24k thus far under the guise of “getting Hamas”. This is just an excuse to ramp up what they have wanted to do for decades.

Also if the goal of Hamas was to goad Israel into an over the top response that showed Israel’s far right govt as the war mongering evil terrorists they are well, I guess that is succeeding but in no way excuses Israel.

Also re potentially leading to World War III, is it really worth it? Like wtf would be the point of most of the world being involved? Not saying it couldn’t happen mind you.

 

[Blue1980]

agreed

People seemingly dont understand the exact definition of what constitues a war crime like genocide and why they are in turn hard to actually prove.

Killing civilians isn't a war crime in itself. It's the deliberate act in doing so which makes it one.

In saying that I'm pretty OK with Israel being investigated for committing war crimes. When that time eventually comes.

The trouble is winners of wars (or more accurately anyone the US supports) ever gets charged with war crimes. Unless you have an example I can’t think of.

 

[Blue1980]

Israel is more like North Korea.

Bit rough on Kim jung there.