John Cena

[Jade's]

Believe my emotions don't even alter when talking about Cena's main event status. Sure you wouldn't be able to go back to a mid card now. But he still shouldn't be the face of the company.

What makes him any different to the rock?

Both cut awesome promos. Both incredibly over with the preteens in their day. Both limited move sets?

 

[Kong]

Don't have an issue with him, but in terms of what he's done for wrestling, he's still below Hulk Hogan (who was wrestling in the 80's, and whose name is still known by non wrestling fans), Stone Cold (who single handedly beat WCW, and revolutionised wrestling) and The Rock (who picked up where Austin left off).

This is just personal opinion, but I've always thought Hogan and Austin to be the two genuine heads, with Rock a rung below (Austin laid the groundwork for him), and guys like Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart following.

 

[Jade's]

Don't have an issue with him, but in terms of what he's done for wrestling, he's still below Hulk Hogan (who was wrestling in the 80's, and whose name is still known by non wrestling fans), Stone Cold (who single handedly beat WCW, and revolutionised wrestling) and The Rock (who picked up where Austin left off).

This is just personal opinion, but I've always thought Hogan and Austin to be the two genuine heads, with Rock a rung below (Austin laid the groundwork for him), and guys like Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart following.

Fair call. Im happy for him to sit 4th behind the three you mentioned. Although id personally have it:

Hogan





Austin
Rock, Cena


Taker, Michaels, Hart

 

[Pera]

Don't have an issue with him, but in terms of what he's done for wrestling, he's still below Hulk Hogan (who was wrestling in the 80's, and whose name is still known by non wrestling fans), Stone Cold (who single handedly beat WCW, and revolutionised wrestling) and The Rock (who picked up where Austin left off).

This is just personal opinion, but I've always thought Hogan and Austin to be the two genuine heads, with Rock a rung below (Austin laid the groundwork for him), and guys like Undertaker, Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart following.

Ric Flair is a longgg way ahead of the final three you mentioned.

 

[Kong]

I can't really add much to the Flair argument, because although I knew the name, I hadn't ever seen him until he came to the WWF/E.

People say how much he did for NWA or which ever organisation it was, I'm sure that's right, but in terms of popularising wrestling, in the 80's everybody knew Hulk Hogan, and in the late 90's most people knew Stone Cold Steve Austin.

I reckon if I went and asked 100 people at random who Ric Flair was and what he'd achieved, maybe 5 would be able to answer me.

EDIT: Sorry, misread you. Didn't see "final". Probably a fair call; I don't rate those three anywhere near Austin and Hogan.

 

[Pera]

Yeah still think the big three are ahead of him.... just.

Better than Cena that's for sure.

 

[Jade's]

Yeah still think the big three are ahead of him.... just.

Better than Cena that's for sure.

Hogan yes...the other two very debatable...Outside Wrestling circles Cena would be bigger than Austin and more people will remember Dwayne for his terrible movies than his wrestling

 

[TRAWP]

Austin, Rock and Hogan are well known outside of WWE circles. Though Cena isn't known by many at all. As well as that out of the three Austin and Rock became tweeners more than once in there career. Cena had his small one at the start of his career and ever since he has been a hated face.

 

[Jade's]

Austin, Rock and Hogan are well known outside of WWE circles. Though Cena isn't known by many at all. As well as that out of the three Austin and Rock became tweeners more than once in there career. Cena had his small one at the start of his career and ever since he has been a hated face.

He has been the most over face in the industry since 2008

 

[THRILLHO]

Hogan yes...the other two very debatable...Outside Wrestling circles Cena would be bigger than Austin and more people will remember Dwayne for his terrible movies than his wrestling

Yeah, while Cena's off shooting The Marine III, straight to DVD, but no doubt will be critically and commercially acclaimed, Austin will have to settle for starring in the next Schwarzenegger film, Last Stand.

As for The Rock?

Fast Five: $209m
Journey 2: $100m
Faster: $23m
Tooth Fairy: $60m
Planet 51: $42m
Race to Witch Mountain: $67m
Get Smart: $130m

Not to mention starring in GI Joe this summer. The dude is building into a bona fide legitimate action star.

He has been the most over face in the industry since 2008

You might want to try tuning in sometime this year. Some guy called CM Punk? I know you might be a bit confused, cause Punk doesn't get booed, but that's a good thing.

 

[Jade's]

You might want to try tuning in sometime this year. Some guy called CM Punk? I know you might be a bit confused, cause Punk doesn't get booed, but that's a good thing.

Punk gets nowhere near the pop Cena did/does!

 

[Rusty Brookes]

I can't really add much to the Flair argument, because although I knew the name, I hadn't ever seen him until he came to the WWF/E.

People say how much he did for NWA or which ever organisation it was, I'm sure that's right, but in terms of popularising wrestling, in the 80's everybody knew Hulk Hogan, and in the late 90's most people knew Stone Cold Steve Austin.

I reckon if I went and asked 100 people at random who Ric Flair was and what he'd achieved, maybe 5 would be able to answer me.

In southern states of the US, Flair was as big if not bigger than Hogan. The NWA at the time with Flair on top used to outdraw the WWF with Hogan headlining in certain cities: Atlanta, Greensboro, Charlotte (obviously). Flair also used to wrestle as the roving World Champion so helped draw big numbers for a large number of regional promotions. Plus he had absolutely killer bouts night after night. On a worldwide scale, sure Hogan, Austin and the Rock mainstreamed wrestling - but in wrestling circles and in particular places around the world (southern US, Puerto Rico, Japan, Canada), Flair was the man.

Oh and if Cena is the most over wrestler in WWE, what were all those "Yes" chants about on Raw the other week?

 

[THRILLHO]

Punk gets nowhere near the pop Cena did/does!

Yeah, you're probably right.

The only thing bigger than Punk's pop at MITB and SS was Cena's heat at the same PPVs.

Any chance of responding to the rest of my post? Your trolling is boring and easily dismissed. Give me something better.

 

[Jade's]

Yeah, you're probably right.

The only thing bigger than Punk's pop at MITB and SS was Cena's heat at the same PPVs.

Any chance of responding to the rest of my post? Your trolling is boring and easily dismissed. Give me something better.

Coz he gets that week in week out...Try and keep an open mind and look at the big picture. You are coming off as rather pathetic

 

[Jade's]

Oh and if Cena is the most over wrestler in WWE, what were all those "Yes" chants about on Raw the other week?

Lol 3 people shouting yes doesnt beat 75% of the crowd singing "lets go Cena"

 

[THRILLHO]

Coz he gets that week in week out...Try and keep an open mind and look at the big picture. You are coming off as rather pathetic

He does.

Obviously doesn't replicate that pop each and every week, but every week he gets the biggest face reaction in the WWE. There's always an initial pop and then a very vocal CM Punk chant.

Lol 3 people shouting yes doesnt beat 75% of the crowd singing "lets go Cena"

You... You don't actually watch Raw do you?

Yes is the biggest thing in the business right now. English crowd was going nuts for it. Kofi vs. Bryan. Every move Kofi hits: "NO", every move Bryan hits: "YES!". It is massively over.

And Cena would individually kiss every member of the audience if he got 75% of them chanting Let's Go Cena. His reaction is 50-50 at best these days.

 

[Jade's]

He does.

Obviously doesn't replicate that pop each and every week, but every week he gets the biggest face reaction in the WWE. There's always an initial pop and then a very vocal CM Punk chant.





You... You don't actually watch Raw do you?

Yes is the biggest thing in the business right now. English crowd was going nuts for it. Kofi vs. Bryan. Every move Kofi hits: "NO", every move Bryan hits: "YES!". It is massively over.

And Cena would individually kiss every member of the audience if he got 75% of them chanting Let's Go Cena. His reaction is 50-50 at best these days.

That is a rediculous statement. It is a vocal minority that voices their displeasure with Cena but no more than 10-15% of the crowd except on some occassions (ie.MITB @ Punks home town)

 

[TRAWP]

Cena doesn't have close to 50% of the crowd, you listen to WM he had maybe 30% at best. Keep telling yourself this Jade's. End of the day, there are bigger and better guys coming through so Cena is stepping aside. Here comes the Pain!

 

[Jade's]

Cena doesn't have close to 50% of the crowd, you listen to WM he had maybe 30% at best. Keep telling yourself this Jade's. End of the day, there are bigger and better guys coming through so Cena is stepping aside. Here comes the Pain!

I bet you that at the end of 2012 Cena will still be the biggest asset in the WWE. And at the end of 2013 and 2014

 

[Asgardian]

Flair was the wrestler trying to make wrestling popular.

Hogan was the celebrity trying to make Hulk Hogan popular and drag up the WWF on his coattails by association. WWF played along with this, happy for the intrusion into popular media with the with the rock'n'roll wrestling stuff with Lauper, Mr. T & the cartoon stuff.

Obviously the WWF model was the successful vehicle.

 

[Jade's]

Flair was the wrestler trying to make wrestling popular.

Hogan was the celebrity trying to make Hulk Hogan popular and drag up the WWF on his coattails by association. WWF played along with this, happy for the intrusion into popular media with the with the rock'n'roll wrestling stuff with Lauper, Mr. T & the cartoon stuff.

Obviously the WWF model was the successful vehicle.

Cena is the wrestler that had captivated an entire generation of new fans into wrestling

 

[THRILLHO]

Cena is the wrestler that had captivated an entire generation of new fans into wrestling

Okay, now we know you're not even trying.

 

[_Mike_]

Cena will retire as the greatest wretler of all time. Is only 34 (still relatively young in wrestling terms) and he already has 19 Championships including 10 WWE Championships and 2 World Heavyweight Championships.

Disagree Jades

Cena has been good for ths business however that was due to his timeline.

When it comes to the greatest of all time, he's no where near the mark. The legacy that guys like Shawn Michaels, Brett Hart, Ric Flair, Steve Austin, Undertaker, HHH, Stone Cold and The Rock left trump Cena by a mile.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I agree that Cena is behind pretty much all of those guys. It is hard to gauge where his place is because while Cena is the leader of an ordinary era, his ability to take the step into that stratosphere has been affected by a lack of opposition. To his detractors, it is a negative against Cena that he has not had that quality around him. On the other hand, to his supporters, it is a positive that he has helped to keep enough interest in what is a weaker product. I really don't remember anybody else but Hogan having to carry that mantle for so long waiting for genuine stars to develop. I do have a recollection of some weaker periods during Hart's run. Maybe through injury, maybe through depth, can't remember.

The WWE had a chance with Orton but his face turn based on the audience buying his heel character was unnecessary. They don't have to have wrestlers firmly in one camp or another. They are doing the same to Punk now. Stop putting him in tag team matches with other faces or have them be just as dismissive of the faces as he is of the heels. WWE are too black and white. We all know that Sheamus isn't suddenly best friends with Cena or Orton a mere year or two after being an ass and wanting to kick their heads off. Stop overselling the hero vs villain angle. Keep us guessing.

Now I've turned a Cena defence into a WWE rant. I think my point about how poorly these guys are being used, eventually turning the crowds against them, is in there somewhere.

It's a tough era for faces. This generation likes the anti-hero, or likes the sadistic, or the conniving. It entertains them more to see bad asses than the superhero coming in to save the day. When Wrestlemania was first launched, it was all about heroes. Crowds hated the heels and didn't cheer them for being bad. The situation has been reversed and it is hard to write for. I think crowds are going to have to become a little smarter though, as they are killing off faces. The message I get on this forum is that posters would much rather see the heels win more often than not, but do they not think there are a healthy percentage of the audience that would switch off, because they see it as being more real than most?

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

I totally agree about your "wwe is too black and white" comment.

I hate it how the heel can never win clean in championship matches. It's becoming so ridiculous that they may as well build up by saying Cena will win this match pending cheating from his opponent." While the cowardly heel can draw easy heat, I'll always prefer an unbeatable heel champion making the win even more significant when the hero finally conquers the villain.

Also in regards to title reigns, since JBL, when was the last mega title reign from a heel? I'm not sure if there's been one. I loved JBL's reign, every PPV he found a way to steal a win over Undertaker, Eddie and Booker T with his underrated stable "the cabinet." I was so mad at 21 because I was fully expecting Cena to have to dominate the Basham's one by one, then Orlando Jordan and even the chick (Joy?) to finally get JBL one on one and finally take down the SOB who'd been running for 9 months. Instead JBL sends Orlando back and we get a straight match between two awful wrestlers??? Could've made that match so memorable I think.

So to answer navy, no. The fans who have "heightened realism" needs these powerful villians. As long as he's over, like any story I beleive chasing the title is when he will gain his most support as that's the interesting part. If Cena's constantly champ then these kids will lose interest far more quickly as they'll catch onto the predictability and grow bored far more quickly imo. "Striving for the title" is a much more gripping tale than "trying to hold on to the title for as long as possible"

Last year ADR and Miz were the only heel champs on Raw and neither held it for long at all. Will be very interested to see with who Punk feuds with next as there's not alot of heels to choose from. Already defended the title against Miz and Ziggler. D Bryan would be awesome, I'd hazard to guess that Christian was the intended contender so let's hope he can get back into it.