Josh Kennedy a bargain of trading up

[HAWKS HEROES]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/josh-kennedy-a-bargain-of-trading-up/story-fn7si1vl-1226326183974

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...in-of-trading-up/story-fn81k577-1226326183974

i know this will probably start the what ifs but it is a good read i put both hs and a different link that has whole story up for those that don't have access to hs paywall



IN my time as Sydney coach, we would sit down at the halfway mark of every season to discuss out-of-contract players who might be of interest to recruit for the following season.

But it would be fair to say that when our opposition analyst George Stone threw up the name of Hawthorn youngster Josh Kennedy, none of us in the room could have envisaged that he would become one of the competition's elite midfielders in such a short space of time.

 

[xellis]

Its a pointless conversation unfortunately. And a painful one.

Say what you like, at the end of the day: shocking decision.

Joey is the best clearance player in the competition right now. If you watch carefully in a Swan's games you can see his brilliance.

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

just wondering back then could he have played backline cause there were no spots midfield for him

 

[kirbatron]

lets not beat around the bush - its starting to really sting....

 

[go hawks!!!]

lets not beat around the bush - its starting to really sting....

Yes indeed.

Could form part of the 'hindsight' mega thread

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

yes hindsight is a wonderful thing sadly

 

[TBoyleSuperstar]

lets not beat around the bush - its starting to really sting....

Yes and No. Yes because he's become a gun, No because there is nothing to say he would have with us. Also, it would have potentially stunted Shiels's development who is looking like a future gun anyway

I'm rapt for Joey and how he has developed and good to see him make something of his career. Could he have done what he has done if he stayed with us, still not convinced.

 

[Buddy Guy]

Still clearly remember all the comments from the experts on this board..

"he is as slow as treacle", "he cant kick over a jam tin", "he is at least 5th or 6th in line" ha, what a load of s**t

I cant even watch Sydney games anymore.

 

[play2win]

Joey was always going to become a good player, he just needed the game time to make the transition. The hawks knew and wanted to keep him. The question now really boils down to, would you trade one of Lewis, Mitchell, sewell or hodge to get him now, because these were the guys that were keeping him out of the team. The answer to that question 1-2 years ago was a resounding no, at some point it will become a yes but there are other factors to consider too.

 

[Roby]

Like Whitecross of recent times, I thought Kennedy was improving. At 21 in our start studded midfield in his last 9 games he was averaging nearly 20 disposals a game, 4 tackles a game, 1 goal scored or assist per game, and averaged 88 in Champion Data in his last 7 games. That's higher than what Rioli was getting.

There was question on his disposal and decision making but I noticed that he was improving this with each game. For me that was enough to keep playing in the side but obviously we saw different.

Honestly I think it's worked out better for Kennedy this way. He went to Syndey in a lesser midfield, given more responsibility and has now flourished. Sydney have done a really good job to develop him, he probably wouldn't be the same player at Hawthorn. I am Hawks supporter, and pleases me to see K.Junior do really well.

Let's not forget we were fortunate to get good picks with the trade.

 

[grizzlym]

Would you like him in the side about now?

 

[eldorado]

Would have been great to keep him, but he would have to accept being a fringe player for another year or so (because of our inside mid surplus), while it seems the Swans had plans for him to go straight in.

I'm happy to see him do well, as long as he doesn't turn it on against us.

I hope we're in his ear though...prodigal son, and all that...

 

[Rioli magic]

No point crying over spilt milk. It's the nature of the industry, players move clubs, you win some, you lose some, just like the draft.

As supporters we tend to concentrate on the "what if" losses, but there are just as many "what if" wins.

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

Joey was always going to become a good player, he just needed the game time to make the transition. The hawks knew and wanted to keep him. The question now really boils down to, would you trade one of Lewis, Mitchell, sewell or hodge to get him now, because these were the guys that were keeping him out of the team. The answer to that question 1-2 years ago was a resounding no, at some point it will become a yes but there are other factors to consider too.

agree and sadly as much as yes wanted to keep him if he was not going to get much game time with hawks till later and swans offered him more game time then and there and more money probably well why should he not take that up , i wanted him to stay like i am sure all wanted him to stay but in the end it was his choice to make and if it meant leaving hawks getting the game time he wanted then so be it he knows he is loved at the hawks he loved and i am sure still loves the hawks just at this moment in tame he is with the opposition sadly

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

Like Whitecross of recent times, I thought Kennedy was improving. At 21 in our start studded midfield in his last 9 games he was averaging nearly 20 disposals a game, 4 tackles a game, 1 goal scored or assist per game, and averaged 88 in Champion Data in his last 7 games. That's higher than what Rioli was getting.

There was question on his disposal and decision making but I noticed that he was improving this with each game. For me that was enough to keep playing in the side but obviously we saw different.

Honestly I think it's worked out better for Kennedy this way. He went to Syndey in a lesser midfield, given more responsibility and has now flourished. Sydney have done a really good job to develop him, he probably wouldn't be the same player at Hawthorn. I am Hawks supporter, and pleases me to see K.Junior do really well.

Let's not forget we were fortunate to get good picks with the trade.

agreed

and i wish him well in all he does will never stop loving the guy he is a great kid

 

[HAWKS HEROES]

No point crying over spilt milk. It's the nature of the industry, players move clubs, you win some, you lose some, just like the draft.

As supporters we tend to concentrate on the "what if" losses, but there are just as many "what if" wins.

true too

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

God Roos is full of s**t. They got K3 cos of George Stone's knowledge.

Swannies are going nowhere all they have done is build a mediocre list by their amazing strategy of looking at who is coming out of contract.

 

[BobHawk]

Would you like him in the side about now?

Would have been handy on Monday after Mitch got tagged out of the game in the second half...

 

[BobHawk]

God Roos is full of s**t. They got K3 cos of George Stone's knowledge.

Swannies are going nowhere all they have done is build a mediocre list by their amazing strategy of looking at who is coming out of contract.

Still, you have to hand it to Roos and the Swans just for the audacity of going after him. I mean, this is the grandson of what is (maybe arguably) the biggest legend at the club and his father played some 250 games too.

Add to that his dramatic improvement in the second half of 2009 which included his fitness and his uncanny ability to get the ball and dish it off at lightning speed by hand (which was becoming more obvious with each game) and you do have to wonder how the club let him go. Personally, I do not think it would have been all that difficult to talk him into staying just by looking at the family history at the club. You would be pretty sure a young bloke with that sort of heritage would take a bit of talking into moving to another club.

Most probably the decision was based on his foot skills (knowing what the team is about today but how important is it when a Suckling or Birchall is running past?), keeping the faith with players who won us our 10th flag and probably Liam Shiels who the club has rated very highly from the beginning. Might even throw X Ellis in there as well and I am not trying to start a fire here....

 

[Donnybrook]

No point crying over spilt milk. It's the nature of the industry, players move clubs, you win some, you lose some, just like the draft.

As supporters we tend to concentrate on the "what if" losses, but there are just as many "what if" wins.

Spot on. We could quite easily have a steal on our hands in Jack Gunston. Time will tell.

I think context is important when considering the trade of Kennedy. Remember what our midfield was like at the time.

Would it be fair to say that Kennedy and Shiels were in direct competition for the same position in our midfield rotation until the trade? If so Shiel's stacks up quite nicely next to Kennedy in my opinion.

 

[hawk for 37]

Doing the business again today. 60 Supercoach points half way through the 2nd quarter.

 

[SodaPop]

Wonder if our offer to him would've improved if we didn't recruit Burgers?

 

[big footy cyril]

Yes, its past the point where we can do anything about it now, still love watching him play although thats more of a personal opinion.

I think that the real story here is practically a blueprint for how to go about picking up those potential golden recruits from other clubs. The powers that be at the swans have assessed their fan demographic really well and as such, pulled exactly the right punches as they required.
Recently we heard how the pies went a few years without trading any picks to ensure they had a brilliant goal to goal line, pumping games into them (think 2005) before topping up with ready made players such as Jolly and Ball to fill remaining gaps and push for the flag (can also be afforded due to the abundance of home grown talent - similar to the hawks). Simple and smart. Combined with info such as the swans blueprint - i.e. assuring a spot in the team for an otherwise fringe player on the rise, etc. - its any wonder clubs like Richmond can remain fluctuating between spots on the bottom half of the table without a similar, deliberately structured rebuild.
Simple and smart.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Still clearly remember all the comments from the experts on this board..

"he is as slow as treacle", "he cant kick over a jam tin", "he is at least 5th or 6th in line" ha, what a load of s**t

I cant even watch Sydney games anymore.

Umm yeah, BG, but he was 5th or 6th in line AT THE TIME.

The AFL lists, as they are now set up, don't allow for a great deal of players to sit around on lists and develop( unfortunately for Joey, he was developing behind Sewell, Mitchell, Lewis and Hodge, who were all going to hold their spots).
You get 3-5 years to show something these days, and if you're not starting to hold your position, or in Joey's case, squeeze others out, you're excess to the lists needs, and also taking up valuable salary cap space.

It was a decision that I can still understand, especially when you put it in the context of the actual time.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

If you want to reduce the game to the "most effective" method of list management, you will maintain 18 lists. Your own ranking of all 600 players (and future year draft picks); and the other 17 clubs.

Take that data, look at the ~12k lines of data, and find out which team dramatically under-rates their players, or over-rates your own.

When you find a match, make the trade.

* Perfect World
** Perfect Scouting (by your team)
*** No Player relationships/friendships
**** Each transaction happens within a vacuum with zero influence on every other player.

IRL, teams will keep some players on their list an extra year to guarantee the signature of a star, simply because they are "best mates".