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I agree, but it sure upsets Hawthorn supporters.
Lake Harris
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I agree, but it sure upsets Hawthorn supporters.
- Apr 18, 2005
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I think if you asked every single Hawks supporter what matters more then the answer is obvious, but they are peeved that over a similar period of success as Geelong that they're players aren't rated.
I look at the discrepancy AA's compared to Geelong in a positive way. It indicates to me that Hawthorn are a cohesive unit that are consistently strong on every line with no absolute stand outs (besides Mitchell).
I honestly couldn't care less as long as we are winning flags in that time.
I honestly couldn't care less as long as we are winning flags in that time.
Good points, but i cant figure out why clarkson has never won coach of the year but thompson won it twice...
I used to get annoyed when the likes of Gibson and Mitchell got overlooked, but AA feels pretty unimportant now to be honest. It's just a group of the most clueless media commentators in the business and a couple of suits that don't even pretend to be partial selecting their favs, when Hodge didn't even make the 40 and Deledio made the squad I actually found it genuinely amusing. Not even slightly annoyed anymore.
Mooney, keeping out Buddy Franklin in 07. AA is the most irrelevant award in the sport.
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- Jul 13, 2015
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This.
AA and Brownlow are substitutes for flags. I do find it a tad embarrassing for the selectors when they ignore the talent in our team.
Same as coach of the year. I bet Clarko prefers his 4 Jock McHale medals. Though maybe 1 coach award before he retires and becomes a legend of the game would be nice.
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Pretty much, it's a joke. AA don't make you a better player in the circles that matter, internally that is. All it serves to do is full a void on football program's, newspapers, the AFL website, and media in general at the end of the season. It gives Mark Robinson, Gerard Healy, Cameron Mooney, Alastair Lynch, David King, Brad Johnson, and any other football commentator a sense of importance and relevance due to debating, analysing, and filling a show. They even have a live cross of the selection.
Every single player to be picked in an AA side is not a better player because of that selection, what they provide to their team is the most critical factor.
End of the day, Lake & Gibson are two of the best defenders I've seen, and Lake the best full back I've seen in pure ability and influence to a game. Hawthorn does not pick spuds, and Lake has been the most important player to a side crying out for a key defender.
Every single player to be picked in an AA side is not a better player because of that selection, what they provide to their team is the most critical factor.
End of the day, Lake & Gibson are two of the best defenders I've seen, and Lake the best full back I've seen in pure ability and influence to a game. Hawthorn does not pick spuds, and Lake has been the most important player to a side crying out for a key defender.
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Brownlow medals are a farce. Adam Cooney won in 2008 in front of Lance Franklin who kicked 100+. How can you give that any credibility?
- Apr 18, 2005
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Clarkson has coached 4 flags hasn't he? Perhaps it's cooler in the media to give it to a Luke Beveridge or Adam Simpson? But they haven't won a flag have they? Hmmm
- Apr 18, 2005
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And aren't the awards awarded before the finals series starts? Hmmmmm
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That one has me stuffed. Although I think it's given out before finals, that might explain it?
Finished first in 2013, finished second in 2014 on the barest amount of percentage to Sydney despite having a major issue throughout the season with long-term injuries to key players as well as our coach ffs.
If he couldn't get it in 2014 then someone has it in for him IMO. Dead set.
- May 12, 2015
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Bolts coaching us for 5 games (with a 100% winning record) made it hard for him to win it last year. At the end of the day Clarkson won't be losing a wink of sleep over it.
Agree with the second part but if it wasn't Clarko that set the foundations up for someone like Bolts to just walk in and take charge then who was it?
If anything it probably stands as more reason to acknowledge Clarko in that he set up a system that his assistants could manage at the drop of a hat should he have had to walk away for any reason. It's not like Bolton did anything different. I love Bolts, but he walked in and just had to motivate the players to do their jobs like they've always done using the systems that were already in place. That's Clarko's work.
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John Dyson
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My favourite memory of Lake is his hanger over that s**t truck Tippett in the 2014 grand final.
Bit of rose coloured glasses in this thread like the McPharlin one. Give it a few months for clarity.
That being said Lake is NOT the equal of Scarlett, never had the consistency. Both s**t blokes though unlike Glass and McPharlin.
Beyond Scarlett it becomes too subjective on who saw who, supported who and hated the other. Doesn't help that the Vic football media doubles as the National football media. I still clearly remember the hyperbole about Lake in 2010 when the already multi AA Fullbacks Scarlett had a brief lull and Glass was injured, short memories abound.
So beyond the subjective and Hawthorn/Geelong hate here are the most basic stats:
Scarlett: 284 games, 17 goals, 3x Premiership player, 1 Club B&F (2003), 6x AA (03,04,07,08,09,11) 4 at Fullback, 2 at Back Pocket.
Glass: 270 games, 8 goals, 1 Premiership Player, 3x Club B&F (07,09,11), 7 year Club Captain, 4x AA (06,07,11,12) 3 at Fullback, 1 at Back Pocket, 2012 AA Captain.
Lake: 251 games, 34 goals, 3x premiership Player, 1 Norm Smith Medal, 1 Club B&F (2007), 2x AA (09,10) 1 Fullback, 1 Back Pocket.
McPharlin: 256 games, 115 goals, 1 AA at Fullback (2012).
Anyone can argue who's best was better, Scarlett clearly did it for longer. Scarlett and Lake were better attacking defenders yet McPharlin clearly was the better swing man. Glass couldn't even kick, does that take away from him or was he so much better in his other faculties to nullify it making 4 AA's, my bias says he was the best of them in one on one contests and clearly in leadership.
Scarlett didn't suffer the injuries of Glass, Lake and especially McPharlin thus was able to secure more of his opportunities in the best team over that period. The others can only project what may have been. Lake and McPharlin played most of their careers
in average teams, Glass's team was up and down.
When more than one made the All Australian team:
Scarlett denied Lake AA Fullback in 2009
Glass denied Scarlett AA Fullback in '07 and '11
McPharlin denied Glass AA Fullback in 2012
That being said Lake is NOT the equal of Scarlett, never had the consistency. Both s**t blokes though unlike Glass and McPharlin.
Beyond Scarlett it becomes too subjective on who saw who, supported who and hated the other. Doesn't help that the Vic football media doubles as the National football media. I still clearly remember the hyperbole about Lake in 2010 when the already multi AA Fullbacks Scarlett had a brief lull and Glass was injured, short memories abound.
So beyond the subjective and Hawthorn/Geelong hate here are the most basic stats:
Scarlett: 284 games, 17 goals, 3x Premiership player, 1 Club B&F (2003), 6x AA (03,04,07,08,09,11) 4 at Fullback, 2 at Back Pocket.
Glass: 270 games, 8 goals, 1 Premiership Player, 3x Club B&F (07,09,11), 7 year Club Captain, 4x AA (06,07,11,12) 3 at Fullback, 1 at Back Pocket, 2012 AA Captain.
Lake: 251 games, 34 goals, 3x premiership Player, 1 Norm Smith Medal, 1 Club B&F (2007), 2x AA (09,10) 1 Fullback, 1 Back Pocket.
McPharlin: 256 games, 115 goals, 1 AA at Fullback (2012).
Anyone can argue who's best was better, Scarlett clearly did it for longer. Scarlett and Lake were better attacking defenders yet McPharlin clearly was the better swing man. Glass couldn't even kick, does that take away from him or was he so much better in his other faculties to nullify it making 4 AA's, my bias says he was the best of them in one on one contests and clearly in leadership.
Scarlett didn't suffer the injuries of Glass, Lake and especially McPharlin thus was able to secure more of his opportunities in the best team over that period. The others can only project what may have been. Lake and McPharlin played most of their careers
in average teams, Glass's team was up and down.When more than one made the All Australian team:
Scarlett denied Lake AA Fullback in 2009
Glass denied Scarlett AA Fullback in '07 and '11
McPharlin denied Glass AA Fullback in 2012
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- Apr 18, 2005
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So Scarlett & Lake have virtually the same statistics bar Scarlett having more AA which means nothing. Lake is a 3 time premiership player, club best and fairest, but also a norm smith medallist. I know who I'd rather have. Thanks for providing those stats though, just shows that Lake is the equal of Scarlett, but with a norm smith.Bit of rose coloured glasses in this thread like the McPharlin one. Give it a few months for clarity.
That being said Lake is NOT the equal of Scarlett, never had the consistency. Both s**t blokes though unlike Glass and McPharlin.
Beyond Scarlett it becomes too subjective on who saw who, supported who and hated the other. Doesn't help that the Vic football media doubles as the National football media. I still clearly remember the hyperbole about Lake in 2010 when the already multi AA Fullbacks Scarlett had a brief lull and Glass was injured, short memories abound.
So beyond the subjective and Hawthorn/Geelong hate here are the most basic stats:
Scarlett: 284 games, 17 goals, 3x Premiership player, 1 Club B&F (2003), 6x AA (03,04,07,08,09,11) 4 at Fullback, 2 at Back Pocket.
Glass: 270 games, 8 goals, 1 Premiership Player, 3x Club B&F (07,09,11), 7 year Club Captain, 4x AA (06,07,11,12) 3 at Fullback, 1 at Back Pocket, 2012 AA Captain.
Lake: 251 games, 34 goals, 3x premiership Player, 1 Norm Smith Medal, 1 Club B&F (2007), 2x AA (09,10) 1 Fullback, 1 Back Pocket.
McPharlin: 256 games, 115 goals, 1 AA at Fullback (2012).
Anyone can argue who's best was better, Scarlett clearly did it for longer. Scarlett and Lake were better attacking defenders yet McPharlin clearly was the better swing man. Glass couldn't even kick, does that take away from him or was he so much better in his other faculties to nullify it making 4 AA's, my bias says he was the best of them in one on one contests and clearly in leadership.
Scarlett didn't suffer the injuries of Glass, Lake and especially McPharlin thus was able to secure more of his opportunities in the best team over that period. The others can only project what may have been. Lake and McPharlin played most of their careers
When more than one made the All Australian team:
Scarlett denied Lake AA Fullback in 2009
Glass denied Scarlett AA Fullback in '07 and '11
McPharlin denied Glass AA Fullback in 2012
- Apr 18, 2005
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Why won't people start discarding AA selections? They actually mean nothing.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
Just because "discarding" AA selections suits your argument.
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Well how exactly are they relevant?
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
As relevant as Norm Smith medals. One is a subjective award by a panel for the best players in the competition in a year, and the other is a subjective award by a panel for best on ground in a GF.
Tell me why AA is irrelevant but the NS is
- Apr 18, 2005
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I am pretty sure the only statistics that matter are that Lake and Scarlett have 3 premierships each, a club best and fairest each, and Lake has a Norm Smith medal. Both players have significantly influenced their respective clubs over the years to win those premierships, but being named in a best 22 actualy does not mean anything.
It suits my argument because I am correct and I know where value should be placed, and that is not on meaningless selections from 'experts'.
- Apr 18, 2005
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Well the Norm Smith medal is awarded to the best player in a GF. For example, Brian Lake won that in 2013. Hawthorn won the premiership. Lake was not selected in the AA side. So I guess the award he received for his BOG in the most important game of the year was worth more than the award given to Scott Thompson from North Melbourne. Whilst the Norm Smith is an individual award, it probably carries a bit more weight in the most important game of the season as it generally goes to best player who had a significant influence in his team winning.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
In your mind only. On your reckoning Paul Dear was a better ruckman than Dean Cox because he won a Norm Smith
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