Leppa's third year.

[LicoriceAllsorts]

It's not even just the coach, it's the whole coaching stuff in general for mine

 

[lions27]

I think we need to look at the western bulldogs for a second. We can all agree that our list is far above them in terms of talent, yet they're playing like a top 8 team, and we're constantly embarrassing ourselves week in week out. It's just hard to not blame our coach, when clubs beneath us are playing above us, while we just continue to under perform.

Not sure about our talent being superior.
We have had a superior injury list.
They have a veteran in all Australian form- Murphy
They tackle like demons
They are also a year or 2 ahead development wise.

 

[davemc_lions]

Not sure only one KPF will make a difference.. Marks inside 50 against North was 14 to 6 and we lost by over 70
Injures not been good although the skill level of some of the players is woeful by hand or by foot.
Only the crows and the suns have a worse disposal % then us.
Centre clearances 4th.
Third for rebound 50 although thats where it stops as we kick backwards and then rebound and sideways.
The only ones who will score for us are the small forwards although we try for a target normally a throw in
Is Charlie Dixon going to make that much difference?

I was hoping for better this year. Last time we kicked 10 goals was against the Crows which we let them over run us.
In the last 5 games we have only kicked 3 goals in all the final quarters added together, 2 games zippo. Not even junk time goals
We just give up.
Game plan, players, coach I do not know.. just once they start loosing they turn in witches hats.
They cannot run out a game..

 

[jackess]

If we lose the next 2 games does he come under pressure?

 

[Hysteria25]

What is most concerning is the downfall of quality players. Rich and Redden have truly gone backwards under Leppa.


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[Bucking Beads]

What is most concerning is the downfall of quality players. Rich and Redden have truly gone backwards under Leppa.


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It is a concern but I'd like to see how Rich goes next season. Typically a player coming back from ACL is lacking confidence and below their best for a while. Rich is also the type of midfielder who feeds off others which hasn't been able to happen this season. Redden has been injured as well.

 

[James North]

Yeah - got to be some kind of injury hang over for those two.

 

[Lionheart182]

Players can't hold their ground in a contest. Their weak.

Their weak what?

 

[lions2010]

What is most concerning is the downfall of quality players. Rich and Redden have truly gone backwards under Leppa.

They are not on there own. I am struggling to see any Lions players that are individually playing better than last year. The objective of coaches is to get the best and develop players, and I see a massive lack of progression with the development overall.


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[Bucking Beads]

I might be being unfair but it is really hard to stick up for Leppa when we see what the Bulldogs have produced this season. They have a very young team as well and are kicking scores without genuine key forwards.

 

[Elixuh]

I might be being unfair but it is really hard to stick up for Leppa when we see what the Bulldogs have produced this season. They have a very young team as well and are kicking scores without genuine key forwards.

Didn't they say on the telecast that the dogs are 4th for fwd 50 entries but 16th for efficiency or marks i50 (something like that). Caliber of our forward line at the moment is well below WB.

When I look at our opponents now I look at their defence first. I have faith in our defenders although young and our midfield is strong on paper ( ) but I've struggled to see for a great portion of the season where our score is going to come from every week. With the forward set up we've got, presuming none of them will kick more than 2 goals on a regular basis, it asks for a mighty spread of goal kickers to win games. Bulldogs have a much more balanced list from end to end, albeit quite a young one.

 

[Alan Smithee]

Their weak what?

Your mean

Ps spelling intentional

 

[Lionheart182]

Didn't they say on the telecast that the dogs are 4th for fwd 50 entries but 16th for efficiency or marks i50 (something like that). Caliber of our forward line at the moment is well below WB.

When I look at our opponents now I look at their defence first. I have faith in our defenders although young and our midfield is strong on paper ( ) but I've struggled to see for a great portion of the season where our score is going to come from every week. With the forward set up we've got, presuming none of them will kick more than 2 goals on a regular basis, it asks for a mighty spread of goal kickers to win games. Bulldogs have a much more balanced list from end to end, albeit quite a young one.

Not to mention the glut of top-end talent on their list. Like it or not, we need a bottom finish to get some talent from the top end of the draft.

 

[Thedeftouch]

I might be being unfair but it is really hard to stick up for Leppa when we see what the Bulldogs have produced this season. They have a very young team as well and are kicking scores without genuine key forwards.

I see small things that worry me about Leppa's plans. Why have McStay as a sub and play Staker all game? Staker has a few games of AFL left and we're hoping Dan will play for 10 years. And what on Earth has he done to Rich? Leppa seems so reluctant to play him in the middle. Happy to be corrected, but from the TV coverage on Sat night he didn't seem to attend too many stoppages / bounces even though we had Hanley and Beams pull out late. Rich needs to develop in to a 25 possession mid; Lord knows he has the skills to do so, but he needs the coach to support / drive that. Stop playing him across half back!

Unfortunately I have to agree with these posts. From the limited amounts of things that we know about, his decisions often seem quite strange to me. Leppa seems like a nice bloke and will obviously go down as a legendary player. Does anyone have the argument for why he should stay? (i.e. point to some positive things he has done or skills that he has)

 

[kylegee28]

Unfortunately I have to agree with these posts. From the limited amounts of things that we know about, his decisions often seem quite strange to me. Leppa seems like a nice bloke and will obviously go down as a legendary player. Does anyone have the argument for why he should stay? (i.e. point to some positive things he has done or skills that he has)

I'm not 100 percent sold on Leppa but last season he took a very average side to 7 wins, and we started the season competing very well with Hawthorn and Geelong. All this despite losing the GH5 and having Leuey and Richy suffer season ending injuries. I think there is a problem with coaching and despite what I may say during game day, Leppa isn't entirely to blame.

 

[jackess]

Not to mention the glut of top-end talent on their list. Like it or not, we need a bottom finish to get some talent from the top end of the draft.

Absolutely nailing your early picks is pretty handy.

 

[Panthera]

What is most concerning is the downfall of quality players. Rich and Redden have truly gone backwards under Leppa.


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Not just under Leppa...haven't seen improvement since they were 21

 

[dlanod]

Absolutely nailing your early picks is pretty handy.

Looking at the Bulldogs' top young talent it really is a combination of top 10 picks (Bonts, Stringer, might throw Boyd in here despite not really contributing this year), father/son picks (Liberatore though again not contributing this year, Wallis, Hunter, and maybe a few others IIRC) and those from the same kind of age group as our GH5 coming into their own (Picken), supported by a couple of ageing stars in Murphy and Boyd. We barely have the first, especially if Aish leaves, we only have Clayton for the second, we were gutted on the third and our best older player is really Merrett who has been in and off the field the last few years. The Dogs have been lucky and good in nailing their draft picks but they've also gotten better picks and cheap talent fall into their lap. We're still trying to build out of a s**t sandwich here.

 

[maroon and blue]

Their weak what?

Wet?

 

[jackess]

Looking at the Bulldogs' top young talent it really is a combination of top 10 picks (Bonts, Stringer, might throw Boyd in here despite not really contributing this year), father/son picks (Liberatore though again not contributing this year, Wallis, Hunter, and maybe a few others IIRC) and those from the same kind of age group as our GH5 coming into their own (Picken), supported by a couple of ageing stars in Murphy and Boyd. We barely have the first, especially if Aish leaves, we only have Clayton for the second, we were gutted on the third and our best older player is really Merrett who has been in and off the field the last few years. The Dogs have been lucky and good in nailing their draft picks but they've also gotten better picks and cheap talent fall into their lap. We're still trying to build out of a s**t sandwich here.

Sorry to nitpick but Picken actually just turned 29. Surprised me how old he was. Maybe you confused him Dalhaus who was an amazing pickup in the rookie draft.

 

[dlanod]

Sorry to nitpick but Picken actually just turned 29. Surprised me how old he was. Maybe you confused him Dalhaus who was an amazing pickup in the rookie draft.

Nah just a straight up mistake. Thought he was only 26 or so as I was just taking into account how long he'd been in their firsts.

 

[Wounded Lion]

I remember in 2013 Vossy said the midfielders needed to have career best seasons.

2013 was the closest we had been to finals since 2009, so I guess they did and they will never achieve it again.

It reminds of the Simpsons episode when Scratchy finally kills Itchy and Krusty says "WOW! They'll never let us show that again! Not in a million years!"

 

[Ironmonger]

Looking at the Bulldogs' top young talent it really is a combination of top 10 picks (Bonts, Stringer, might throw Boyd in here despite not really contributing this year), father/son picks (Liberatore though again not contributing this year, Wallis, Hunter, and maybe a few others IIRC) and those from the same kind of age group as our GH5 coming into their own (Picken), supported by a couple of ageing stars in Murphy and Boyd. We barely have the first, especially if Aish leaves, we only have Clayton for the second, we were gutted on the third and our best older player is really Merrett who has been in and off the field the last few years. The Dogs have been lucky and good in nailing their draft picks but they've also gotten better picks and cheap talent fall into their lap. We're still trying to build out of a s**t sandwich here.

Weighing against that, they had a bit of a lost generation with their recruiting from four to seven years back (roughly) compared to ourselves, and haven't had the calibre of recruits from other clubs we've had recently.

PattyKwasagun also talked up the individual abilities of their players, specifically their forwards, a couple of weeks ago, in what was an excellent post, but probably overstated the difference. They get a lot out of average forwards like Crameri and Dickson because they move the ball quickly and efficiently forward. We could get more out of our forwards if we did the same.

I think we're falling into a bit of a trap in overestimating the quality of their list precisely because they are well managed and Beveridge is adept at getting the most out of everyone, something Leppitsch seems to struggle with. 'Lucky' really isn't a word I would have applied to the Dogs at the start of the year after losing Griffen and Cooney and then Liberatore to injury. They have just done superbly well this season and their new coach deserves a lot of credit.

It'll drive us mad if we compare ourselves to the Bulldogs; they are setting the highest possible standard. But it should remind us that setbacks and list problems can be overcome or at least mitigated and we shouldn't totally excuse Leppitsch and the coaching staff for a disappointing season just because we've had some problems they couldn't control.

 

[jackess]

Weighing against that, they had a bit of a lost generation with their recruiting from four to seven years back (roughly) compared to ourselves, and haven't had the calibre of recruits we've had recently.

PattyKwasagun also talked up the individual abilities of their players, specifically their forwards, a couple of weeks ago, in what was an excellent post, but probably overstated the difference. They get a lot out of average forwards like Crameri and Dickson because they move the ball quickly and efficiently forward. We could get more out of our forwards if we did the same.

I think we're falling into a bit of a trap in overestimating the quality of their list precisely because they are well managed and Beveridge is adept at getting the most out of everyone, something Leppitsch seems to struggle with. 'Lucky' really isn't a word I would have applied to the Dogs at the start of the year after losing Griffen and Cooney and then Liberatore to injury. They have just done superbly well this season and their new coach deserves a lot of credit.

It'll drive us mad if we compare ourselves to the Bulldogs; they are setting the highest possible standard. But it should remind us that setbacks and list problems can be overcome or at least mitigated and we shouldn't totally excuse Leppitsch and the coaching staff for a disappointing season just because we've had some problems they couldn't control.

As well as getting a lot of their top end talent, Beveridge similar to Hinkley, when he took over has managed to get a lot out of their depth players who would have been at the cross roads at the end of the year. Players like Wood, Dickson, Picken, Boyd moving back and Grant have all stepped. This is where I think we've been really hurt by our middle of the road players mainly dropping off a cliff and putting too much pressure on the kids.

 

[go you pups]

Sorry to nitpick but Picken actually just turned 29. Surprised me how old he was. Maybe you confused him Dalhaus who was an amazing pickup in the rookie draft.

We've owned the rookie draft over the last 10 years or so M Boyd, Morris, Harbrow, Picken, Dahlhaus and Johannisen have all been upgraded off it and are guns, while Redpath, Campbell and Jong have been upgraded off it also, our older rookie guys have made up for a few draft howlers over the years. Quite a few of those players weren't junior standouts (except Dahlhaus who was primarily overlooked for his size), but had some elite athletic qualities Jong, Johannisen and Harbrow for example are all quick and explosive, while Johannisen, Dahlhaus and Harbrow are all agile too.

Under our old regime under Scott Clayton (your old recruiting guru) he literally pissed away 1st rounder after 1st rounder except Murphy, Cooney and Griffen over a 10 year period, while Higgins was just ok. Jordan McMahon, Sam Power, Tim Walsh, trading pick 6 for Jade Rawlings (who we took in the PSD ) to stop Hawthorn dealing with North Melbourne, Farren Ray, Andrejs Everitt, Jarrad Grant and Ayce Cordy. Most of those guys failed and were traded, now we go best available and who has the best potential of succeeding as an AFL, drafting for needs doesn't always work too. Clayton had his best successes with 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounders and rookie picks for some strange reason, but his failure to draft and develop a key forward and not getting the best value out of his 1st round failures killed our premiership chances in 2008-09.

I see Brisbane's main issues as player retention and injury-prevention, you had a good offseason last year on the trade table, but injuries have killed you guys with any consistency of playing the same core group week in week out (Rockliff, Redden, Merrett and Hanley in particular). If you make the most of the draft and trade table this year, have a good preseason and get through unscathed, then you still have that solid core group of players to build around with the hopeful added improvement of your young KPPs and I could see you guys being mid-table again next year like you were in 2012-13 with a brighter future outlook. Hopefully you guys nail these highly rated academy kids at the draft like Hipwood and Keays who as Queenslanders will want to stay with you guys and build a better culture with the younger group.

Brisbane's players in their prime 23-29 yos are far better than ours and that's where Brisbane need to build around and start demanding more to get the kids up to speed, but our younger end and older end have shown more.

While Brisbane needs KPPs to come on, would a smart medium-sized goalkicker help ease the load in the short-term?

Weighing against that, they had a bit of a lost generation with their recruiting from four to seven years back (roughly) compared to ourselves, and haven't had the calibre of recruits we've had recently.

Yes, I'd agree with that, Beams and Christensen are much better standard older recruits than Crameri and Stevens for etc.

They get a lot out of average forwards like Crameri and Dickson because they move the ball quickly and efficiently forward. We could get more out of our forwards if we did the same.

Agreed on Crameri, he's been rubbish this year, yesterday was his 4th solid game for the year. 19 goals in 12 games isn't good enough a return with 7 of them yesterday. He's a flanker/3rd type at best, perhaps yesterday may have turned the corner for him but I'm skeptical still.

Disagree on Dickson, Dickson has already proven himself in the past previously winning games off his own boot such as his 4 goal haul against North in 2012 (his 4th AFL game IIRC) and his 6 goal haul against Adelaide in 2013, plus he nearly won us the game against Freo in round 7 booting 7 that day. The bloke is a hard-working sharp-shooter with natural goal-sense even if he's perceived as limited. He had a horrible year with injury last year missing 2-3 months with a pec injury, so played VFL only after that. 51 games and 82 goals in his career.

I think we're falling into a bit of a trap in overestimating the quality of their list precisely because they are well managed and Beveridge is adept at getting the most out of everyone, something Leppitsch seems to struggle with. 'Lucky' really isn't a word I would have applied to the Dogs at the start of the year after losing Griffen and Cooney and then Liberatore to injury. They have just done superbly well this season and their new coach deserves a lot of credit.

It'll drive us mad if we compare ourselves to the Bulldogs; they are setting the highest possible standard. But it should remind us that setbacks and list problems can be overcome or at least mitigated and we shouldn't totally excuse Leppitsch and the coaching staff for a disappointing season just because we've had some problems they couldn't control.

At the end of 2013 a few people thought we might win 10+ games in 2014, but it all went pear shaped obviously, the only positives from last year was losing 6 games by 13 points or less and winning the VFL premiership which quite a few AFL regulars this year contributed to.

I think this year is a mix of getting the best out of our veterans down back. Roughead, Wood, Dickson, Picken and Grant having career best years in the 24-28yo bunch, while the kids are standing up and coming on quickly being guided by a positive tactical coach. McCartney took us as far as he could but he taught our kids some good qualities which will make them good footballers going forward imo. My only concerns is our KPPs as they're all raw except Roughead and Morris with Fletcher Roberts looking the most assured out of the younger stocks.


Perhaps Brisbane should compare themselves to St Kilda because we're a very unique case? St Kilda's older players such as Riewoldt, Montagna, Dempster and Fisher are still helping them win games but they have a glut of young KPPs like you guys and they have elite midfielders in their prime also like Steven and Armitage as you guys have Rockliff and Beams etc.