FTA-TV Making a Murderer - SPOILERS

[rumply]

Spoiler

She hasnt got much of a mention, but how was that little shitbag cousin or whatever she was that dropped Brendan in it with the cops? Nothing like family...

& Brendan may still have a chance at a retrial

http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/news/a41031/making-murderer-brendan-dassey/

 

[Willo_]

So wat is the policy on spoilers in this thread?

Spoilers for everything re the cases?

Can the title just be changed to say INCLUDES SPOILERS

Since basically every post is using the tags anyway

 

[vonn]

For those of you who don't have Netflix, don't want to sign up for a month and CBF torrenting -

http://pubfilm.com/making-a-murderer-2015-season-1-full-10-episode-pubfilm-free.html

I have no idea if there are many ads on that page, but I have uBlock so I don't see anything anyway.

 

[Mancey]

Half way through and am ready to fly to Wisconsin and bust the guy out

No doubt a biased viewpoint but christ...reasonable doubt up the ying yang

 

[Mancey]

Poor kid just wanted to watch wrestlemania

 

[Lester Burnham]

 

[phantom13]

Thread title changed, we can stop using spoilers now.

 

[Gasometer]

Thread title changed, we can stop using spoilers now.

I have nothing more to add.














Jokes.

I was thinking that how could anyone find him guilty.

And then I came in here....so I don't know anymore.

 

[phantom13]

I would say this

- the burden of proof lies with the prosecution and the doco certainly indicated that they didn't meet that burden, not even close
- the doco was extremely biased (to the degree that I felt they really dehumanized the victim)
- it's very easy to get caught up in the emotion of the doco and sympathize with the Avery family and the scenes of them doing "family" stuff are clearly meant to emote a strong feeling of "looks at these poor daft country hicks, they never stood a chance"

Imo, something happened out there and if it was good enough for him and Brendan to get convicted and have it knocked back from 4 (I think? Maybe 5) seperate appellate courts there has to be more to the story than the doco shows. Having said all that the initial investigation seemed riddle with poor governance and procedure and it's a scary look inside the way these things work.

 

[stewie griffen]

So much of the evidence looks circumstantial, or unexplained.

But there's no evidence presented to suggest anyone else. Whether that was because they weren't investigated (such as the brother or ex boyfriend) were discounted (the other nephew and his mate) its hard to say as no evidence is there. The only thing was the voicemails, which they didnt really go into, presumably phone records would back all that, but without access to any of that information its hard to say. Maybe the brother and ex had concrete alibis that we didnt see i. Did we not see it as it doesnt exist, or was it edited out as not being of sufficient importance.

The EDTA test process still blows my mind tho. Add that to all the other crap that was going on with the local police and the investigation and it doesnt sit right

 

[Mancey]

But there's no evidence presented to suggest anyone else. Whether that was because they weren't investigated (such as the brother or ex boyfriend) were discounted (the other nephew and his mate) its hard to say as no evidence is there.

The defence were prevented from presenting anything that suggested a possible 3rd party involvement. Their hands were tied

 

[rumply]

Steven not getting a retrial is one thing as his lawyers were actually doing their best for him, but how any appellate court can look at Brendan's trial & decide what happened to him was fair I just cannot come to terms with. Brendan may be guilty as hell, but he should receive a retrial.

 

[stewie griffen]

The defence were prevented from presenting anything that suggested a possible 3rd party involvement. Their hands were tied

Oh for sure. I'm more referring to anything out of the scope of the trial, which obviously we aren't privy to

 

[phantom13]

Steven not getting a retrial is one thing as his lawyers were actually doing their best for him, but how any appellate court can look at Brendan's trial & decide what happened to him was fair I just cannot come to terms with. Brendan may be guilty as hell, but he should receive a retrial.

This is the mid boggling bit. In an insane way his initial (totally incompetent lawyer) has been vindicated is suggesting he should take a plea deal.

I sort of accept what happened to Avery as the totally wrong process for what seems like a just outcome (as wrong as that sounds) but that poor kid.

 

[phantom13]

The other thing that popped up alot for me was the burden of proof. Obviously with the jury and county being so biased against Avery and Dassler it was always going to be a tough slog but so often the defence attorneys talked about "proving innocence". Unless ive grossly misunderstood the justice system i thought it was the job of the prosecution to prove guilt, not the other way around.

This is especially important when considering the possibility of other suspects (in a normal trial the defence only needs to create the doubt that there "could" have been another suspect).

I must admit i found myself trying to justify the holes that the defence poked (the "blood on the bed/room" maybe he burned the matress etc.) but thats my personal bias and is not how a trial should be conducted.

Edit: Just got told a story by a colleague from the states that sort of backs up the burden of proof thing (that is that its almost more on the accused to prove innocence) and more alarming stories of the justice system from within his family.

 

[djrossie16]

Didn't really find it that biased as some people say. There's plenty of stuff in there to dislike Avery a lot and believe he did it. The point it was trying to make strongest I feel was the things occurring that would make a fair trial impossible so a mistrial and if that didn't pass then creating enough reasonable doubt for a not guilty verdict. Things like the investigation being compromised by the strong conflict of interest of the local police. The local people being on the jury. By that implication it would be very hard for local people on a jury to deliver a verdict which condemns their own police department. Strong use of circumstantial evidence to convict. Confessions under duress and Dassey having compromised legal representation. Obviously I don't know every detail but the feel you get is that if the same trial was held out of that area and state it would be a different outcome. Especially feels like Dassey got hosed. I was especially startled in the series when he was found guilty but then I hark back to other docos i've seen The Trials of Darryl Hunt and The Central Park Five or the West Memphis documentaries and you realize it's happened probably a fair bit. A pretty great series it has to be said. A guy like Robert Durst must be laughing.

 

[vonn]

 

[rumply]

one of those funny but not funny jokes

 

[Gasometer]

The world wide media frenzy could be both of their last opportunities for something to happen.

At the moment. ..and possibly if it picks up awards at the Emmys or something.

I don't know what could happen and whether or not it will...but people power has done some amazing things over the years.

I do know though that the window of opportunity will be short and it would be a tragedy to be bumping this thread in 5 years time and seeing nothing happened.

 

[vonn]

The world wide media frenzy could be both of their last opportunities for something to happen.

At the moment. ..and possibly if it picks up awards at the Emmys or something.

I don't know what could happen and whether or not it will...but people power has done some amazing things over the years.

I do know though that the window of opportunity will be short and it would be a tragedy to be bumping this thread in 5 years time and seeing nothing happened.

Something already has happened. Arguably one of America's best lawyers for false accusations (Zellner) has agreed to take on SA's case, tweeting she 'won't rest until he's free.' She has a track record of 17/20 exonerations. I believe that they have already met and filed a Motion to be Released for mid Feb.

 

[rumply]

Imagine the payout this time if he is exonerated. Manitowoc County might end up filing for chapter 11...

 

[craigos]

Reddit has heaps of info on the forum, some interesting, funny, insightful and crazy https://www.reddit.com/r/makingamurderer

 

[craigos]

I had to re-post this, made me laugh, then feel sad.


Making a murderer, why the prosecution's case was "airtight". self.MakingaMurderer

A guy who is a month or two away from a $36 million dollar check gets impatient waiting for all that money and decides to rape and murder a woman that he telephonically arranges (which she seems un-frightened to see him in her voicemail) to come visit his property in the middle of a weekday in full view of various people coming and going from said property. Once he gets her inside his trailer and commences with said raping, he gets a knock on his door, and answering it, he sees his nephew with the mental capacity of a 9 year old. Rather than saying, "I'm busy", he invites said nephew in to witness, participate in, and eventually confess about all the subsequent rapiness and other crimes that happen. Luckily for him, the nephew does not seem to possess any DNA, since none of it gets anywhere during the entire afternoon and evening.

Later, after much raping, stabbing, cutting, slitting, etc, that happens without any blood loss, the woman is dragged to the garage where she is shot eleven times, again without any blood loss, and also without making any sound. Later that evening, they burn the woman's body a few yards away from where several people live, without the horrifying and distinctive smell caused by a burning body.

At some point during this time, the guy and his nephew drive the woman's car (after first taking some of her bloody hair and drawing pictures with it in the back of the vehicle) to what they think is a perfect hiding spot behind 3 or 4 branches, which is located very close to a large and inconvenient car-crusher. They do this without leaving any fingerprints or the tiniest bit of DNA in the car, except for a lot of smeared blood in very obvious spots.

Three days later the police come asking questions and want to look around inside the trailer. The guy lets them do it, knowing he is safe because all of the raping, stabbing, cutting, slitting, etc, that happened in his carpeted trailer happened without any blood loss. The very next day, this guy leaves for his family's cabin 100 miles away, but decides not to bring the woman's car key, bones, teeth, cell phone, camera, etc. to dispose of far away because he knows he's loved by the Manitowoc police department and they will never suspect him and search his property.

 

[Mancey]

haha brilliant

 

[Mancey]

Lulz...that should have been the entirety of the defenses closing statement