If nothing else this whole Ukraine conflict is exposing media on both sides as very much beholden to its owners, and the truth, is never shown fully. We in the west are no less manipulated by propaganda than the Russian populace- we too are being prepared for war. To be honest though it is getting harder to suspend disbelief of the msm.
Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 shot down 295 dead.
- Thread starter Elroo
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- Dec 22, 2009
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RH is owned by Putin. There is photographs of BUK batteries in Snizhe on the morning of the downing. The missile used to destroy MH 17 has a range of 48km. The radius of the missile from the point where MH17 was blown out of the sky is under rebel control. So the only possible way for anybody other than the Russian backed rebels to have shot down the plane is from fighter jet launched missiles and we would have seen radar evidence from the Russians if this occurred. They are claiming there were fighter jets with absolutely no evidence to back up their claims. I'll believe their version of events if they release radar data of Ukranian jets. Otherwise they are clearly bullshit artists and just trying to cover their arses.
- Dec 22, 2009
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Also anyone stupid enough to believe the Russian story about fighter jets in the area would also need to explain why both flights within 25 km of MH 17 (a Singapore & Air India flight) didn't see anything in clear skies. Unless they were also in on the conspiracy! !
- Dec 22, 2009
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Occam's Razor is a good place to start. We know that any ground based missile launch came from rebel held territory. We have phone intercepts of Russian rebels discussing papers from a "Indonesian student at thompson university' at the crash site of the plane expecting it to be a ukranian transport aircraft. No eyewitness accounts from either passenger jet in close proximity of fighter jets in the air and no radar evidence produced of such. It is fairly safe to say that the most likely perpetrator is the rebels. The argument now will be whether they had russian support behind them and any evidence of that has most likely been destroyed if it exists (along with the missile crew responsible - they are probably 10 feet underground by now).
Ukrainian evidence has to be questions as they are undoubtedly one of the combatants in this media war. As are Russia AND Usa. Eu, not as much.
But I'm confident a war on Russia and China has started, more softly on China than Russia.
But I'm confident a war on Russia and China has started, more softly on China than Russia.
- Dec 22, 2009
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What evidence is from the Ukranian? The position where the aircraft was destroyed is known from flight tracking websites. Compare that with the rebels map of their own territory and the known specifications of the BUK missile system tells us that without any doubt a ground based missile launch came from rebel held territory. That is indisputable.
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lol 'we know this', 'we know that'. You don't know s**t, and are simply regurgitating your msm talking points.
Unless you are an intelligence agent or an actual combatant in the conflict and you know more than the rest of us, I don't think you can state you actually know anything. Saying its indisputable does not make it so.
- Dec 22, 2009
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Yes it does. The position of the aircraft when destoryed is a known fact: 47°51′24″N 39°13′6″E / 47.85667°N 39.21833°E / 47.85667; 39.21833 (from flightradar24 tracking service which updates once per second).
The range of the missile system (BUK) is a known fact (48km). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
Rebel held territory is also a known fact: https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...ds%2Fmh17-ukraine-malaysia-airlines;2040;1696
Don't think anyone can dispute the fact that any ground based missile attack on MH17 must have come from rebel held territory.
Why then, have not Ukrainian ATC communications been released?, why have not any incriminating satellite images been released by USA which apparently did have satellite right there? Why are they being very shrill with only social media as evidence? Why are at least some and possibly all of what was very quickly released as evidence proven to be fake ? Why would you need to fake evidence?
- Dec 22, 2009
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I think the lack of radar data showing the supposed fighter jets approaching mh 17 speaks more than anything from the Russians. That's the only possible way Ukraine could be involved in the shoot down.
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Taiwanese reporting that Malaysia believes Ukraine is responsible for the crash.
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20140729000007&cid=1101&MainCatID=11
Haven't seen this reported in western msm yet.
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20140729000007&cid=1101&MainCatID=11
Haven't seen this reported in western msm yet.
Always remember that the first 'victim' in any war is the truth.
This is a war zone after all.
The odds are that the most logical answer is probably correct, a rebel group with a soviet supplied missle system finally found the on button. Why the planes before & after M17 were 'missed' is a big part of the mistery as well.
This is a war zone after all.
The odds are that the most logical answer is probably correct, a rebel group with a soviet supplied missle system finally found the on button. Why the planes before & after M17 were 'missed' is a big part of the mistery as well.
slicedndiced
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This is as sad as it is bizarre...
http://www.watoday.com.au/world/cou...-scientists-on-mh17-probe-20140730-zyc9s.html
Grief does some terrible things to people.
http://www.watoday.com.au/world/cou...-scientists-on-mh17-probe-20140730-zyc9s.html
Grief does some terrible things to people.
- Jan 15, 2012
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Ms Dyczynski later threatened to sue anyone who suggested - without evidence - that Fatima was dead?? damn...
very sad, but i honestly dont know what to say about this.
http://www.nst.com.my/node/20925?d=1
Yesterday, theNew Straits Timesquoted experts who had said that photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes — the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with “flechettes”, and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds.
...
Parry also cited a July 29 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interview with Michael Bociurkiw, one of the first Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) investigators to arrive at the scene of the disaster, near Donetsk.
...
“It had to have been a hail of bullets from both sides that brought the plane down. This is Haisenko’s main discovery. You can’t have projectiles going in both directions — into the left-hand-side fuselage panel from both its left and right sides — unless they are coming at the panel from different directions.
“Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile,” Parry had said.
If the range is 48km then why couldn't it have been fired from non rebel held territory? How many km inside rebel territory was in when it was hit?
Yesterday, theNew Straits Timesquoted experts who had said that photographs of the blast fragmentation patterns on the fuselage of the airliner showed two distinct shapes — the shredding pattern associated with a warhead packed with “flechettes”, and the more uniform, round-type penetration holes consistent with that of cannon rounds.
...
Parry also cited a July 29 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interview with Michael Bociurkiw, one of the first Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) investigators to arrive at the scene of the disaster, near Donetsk.
...
“It had to have been a hail of bullets from both sides that brought the plane down. This is Haisenko’s main discovery. You can’t have projectiles going in both directions — into the left-hand-side fuselage panel from both its left and right sides — unless they are coming at the panel from different directions.
“Nobody before Haisenko had noticed that the projectiles had ripped through that panel from both its left side and its right side. This is what rules out any ground-fired missile,” Parry had said.
If the range is 48km then why couldn't it have been fired from non rebel held territory? How many km inside rebel territory was in when it was hit?
Freo2012
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Whilst cannon round holes in the fuselage may indicate this, making the statement that it rules out a ground missile simply makes the person making that statement have zero credibility. Full examination of the blackbox (including voice recordings) should give much more accurate information of what actually brought the plane down. Very easy for ground troops (under instruction) to fire cannon rounds through the downed remnants of the fuselage.
As the crash site has been compromised, and was under control of peoples certainly not wanting to be found at fault little reliance can really be placed on physical crash evidence other than the blackbox. And we will only know the truth if the blackbox is correctly examined and has not been tampered with (which is possible certainly with the length of time it took to hand it over).
Will we ever know the full truth of this? I wonder, as all sides have ulterior reasons for doing everything to point the blame at one side or the other.
Be amazed if Poms didn't play ball with the Americans re the black boxes. No, I don't think we will ever know the truth.
Freo2012
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Yep the black box can (could have been) tampered with by either side. What is the latest on the Ukraine airtraffic control recordings? Still "lost" in the Ukraine administration?
What can a blackbox tell us if a plane gets shot down?
Sudden failure of every system at once?
The blackbox would be pretty useless I would think.
Pilot yap to air traffic control? Aren't there two black boxes?
Would there even be any time for the pilot to figure things out?
- Dec 22, 2009
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If anyone bothered to check ICAO regulations into accident investigation s state evidence is not to be released until the final investigation is complete. No conspiracies, the same applies to any airliner crash including the one that also crashed in Africa which also has not had its communications released.
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