- Jun 6, 2010
- 4,030
- 12,851
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Dillon Panthers
Toast Pav on Harvey Sacking
- Thread starter Belnakor
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Why is there never any direct criticizing of the AFL like this anymore? This was brilliant, even if Walls can perhaps say things that cause one to scratch their head a bit.
Reginald Perrin
Shouting at clouds
- Oct 19, 2010
- 18,826
- 24,952
- AFL Club
- Tasmania
- Other Teams
- Coney Island Warriors South Fremantle
So many people over-rating a media performance. Coaches are there to win games of football, not the praise of media sycophants.
- Sep 3, 2002
- 17,809
- 9,602
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
- Other Teams
- NBA Winning Machines/Dallas Cowboys
What a great read, might pick this up
A very expensive book that only has 6 pages. Each page has only a few sentences and most of those show glimpses of something, but generally poorly written.
couldhavebeen
Premiership Player
I hate to say it but that culture hasn't changed too much at Freo even with Harvey gone . To support my statement ,Mayne's ankle and Fyfe's corkie
A mate of mine who knows Clarke said that after every game this year he had to get fluid drained from his knee .
Being articulate and strong at spreading your message is a big part of being a coach or managing people in general. Your ability to respond to criticism or when your methods are challenged is pretty significant.
The basic requirements of a coach is to be able to relate to your own players and send a consistent message. He was all over the place in the media and this wouldn't suddenly change behind closed doors.
Reginald Perrin
Shouting at clouds
- Oct 19, 2010
- 18,826
- 24,952
- AFL Club
- Tasmania
- Other Teams
- Coney Island Warriors South Fremantle
That doesn't change the fact that it's given far too much weight by some. We've got a great media performer now, that's awesome. Has it earned us a premiership yet?
jackdanielz3
Senior List
- Apr 26, 2015
- 234
- 546
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
In those days with nothing much to cheer about it seemed like half the fans sitting around me each week were only there to yell abuse at McManus
Maybe but Harvey could barley string a coherent sentence together at times. You seriously don't think this caused any issues with his ability to do the head job?
- Jul 15, 2007
- 9,634
- 7,239
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Boston Celtics, Patriots
Not to make excuses, but you'll find that's pretty much the case at most clubs. In fact most elite professional sporting environments in general. Some would be 'harder' or worse if you like than others, but the pressure to simply 'get up' is massive and it's a pet hate of mine that the industry is still so immature in this regard. Some of the very best run clubs, with very good coaching and medical staff still push their players to places they shouldn't go. Happens very often, don't be surprised.
The players seems to believe so. Seems like it wasn't the case with Harvey.
Reginald Perrin
Shouting at clouds
- Oct 19, 2010
- 18,826
- 24,952
- AFL Club
- Tasmania
- Other Teams
- Coney Island Warriors South Fremantle
"Barely string a coherent sentence together" is an extreme exaggeration a fair way from the truth, but I know it's the comfortable viewpoint for many on this board. The fact is that Ross will have done no better if he doesn't bring home the bacon. Of course there will be plenty who will be happy with near enough being good enough. They will shortly flock to the thread in his defence.
The players seem to believe what? That Ross is a great media performer? That's just peachy. Has he been able to communicate his instructions better? Seems that's the case. Has it got us anywhere yet? No.
- Mar 2, 2007
- 43,139
- 61,380
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Liverpool, Cowboys, Packers, Scorchers
C'mon Reggie, you're starting to sound like one of those muppets on the MB who can't understand nuance so they try boil everything down to a simplistic 'black or white' world view.
The AFL isn't some binary system with two teams where you either win the premiership or you don't. Lyon has been responsible for a massive cultural improvement at our club and consistently gets the team in a position to contend for a premiership in a very tough competition. They're ******* hard to win though and you need a lot to go right - and a lot of what you need to go right isn't always stuff that one man can control.
He's not perfect of course, but there aren't many perfect coaches out there. Though I suspect he would appear slightly more perfect if Freo had the sort of advantages a club like Hawthorn enjoys where they can instantly recruit the exact player they need every time they need them.
Near enough might not be good enough, but you have to get near something before you can grab it. He's better than most at getting teams there.
The AFL isn't some binary system with two teams where you either win the premiership or you don't. Lyon has been responsible for a massive cultural improvement at our club and consistently gets the team in a position to contend for a premiership in a very tough competition. They're ******* hard to win though and you need a lot to go right - and a lot of what you need to go right isn't always stuff that one man can control.
He's not perfect of course, but there aren't many perfect coaches out there. Though I suspect he would appear slightly more perfect if Freo had the sort of advantages a club like Hawthorn enjoys where they can instantly recruit the exact player they need every time they need them.
Near enough might not be good enough, but you have to get near something before you can grab it. He's better than most at getting teams there.
Reginald Perrin
Shouting at clouds
- Oct 19, 2010
- 18,826
- 24,952
- AFL Club
- Tasmania
- Other Teams
- Coney Island Warriors South Fremantle
I'm starting to sound like I'm getting sick of waiting for a premiership. When Ross came along, with the express purpose of winning us that elusive flag, I suggested that if he couldn't do it in 3 years his appointment will have been a failure for the Steves. At the time, the same people who are lauding his performance now agreed with me.
Would we be in any different situation if we had retained Harvey? You have to take into consideration that Ross has a significantly better list at his disposal.
Would we be in any different situation if we had retained Harvey? You have to take into consideration that Ross has a significantly better list at his disposal.
If we had retained Harvey we would have started a rebuild earlier. Harvey would have been sacked a couple of years ago, and we would have gone with Sumich or Neeld or some other recycled coach. Fyfe would not have reached the levels he has, and Pavlich would have retired a year ago, along with Sandilands and Mundy. Walters would have been long gone. I have proof of this as I have just returned from an alternative universe where that is the only difference. Apart from the pink sky.
- Mar 2, 2007
- 43,139
- 61,380
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
- Other Teams
- Liverpool, Cowboys, Packers, Scorchers
I think it's disingenuous to claim Ross was hired with the express expectation of winning us a flag within a certain timeframe or else.
Yes that would have been the hope (just as it is with any coach hired by any club - no club hires a coach hoping they won't win them a flag) but more realistically I'd say the Steves just saw one of the best coaches on the market available and made their move.
It's still one of the greatest moves the club has ever made and I can't see how any fair-minded person could say the Steves have failed the club by poaching him.
Almost definitely we'd be in a different situation. I was on record towards the end of Harvey's last year as saying I was struggling to get enthused about the next season because you could just tell we were going nowhere under him.
You also have to take into consideration that it looks like Ross has a better list because he's a better coach who makes players better.
I don't think we would have made top 4 under Harvey.
I don't miss Harvey's random WTF positional moves, like Crowley to FF or Ballantyne in the ruck.
I don't miss Harvey's random WTF positional moves, like Crowley to FF or Ballantyne in the ruck.
Reginald Perrin
Shouting at clouds
- Oct 19, 2010
- 18,826
- 24,952
- AFL Club
- Tasmania
- Other Teams
- Coney Island Warriors South Fremantle
I've just been reading a few historical threads related to the whole Harvey to Lyon transition. Will make very interesting bumps during the off season.
Geez Reg, if you want him back so bad why don't we ask him. Hey couldhavebeen, are you up for another go?
JoseMourinho
Not A Manager
I like Ross. He is a good coach but he isn't a success until he brings home a premiership and he knows this.
Reginald Perrin
Shouting at clouds
- Oct 19, 2010
- 18,826
- 24,952
- AFL Club
- Tasmania
- Other Teams
- Coney Island Warriors South Fremantle
I didn't say I wanted him back, I just think the whole shift in people's belief systems from a few years ago makes interesting reading.
Some of my stuff, in particular, is eye opening reading it again, so naturally I'll be avoiding as much of that as possible.
JoseMourinho
Not A Manager
I'll have heaps of fun if Danyle Pearce gets close to winning a brownlowI didn't say I wanted him back, I just think the whole shift in people's belief systems from a few years ago makes interesting reading.
Some of my stuff, in particular, is eye opening reading it again, so naturally I'll be avoiding as much of that as possible.
Similar threads
