Player Development - lack of often

[Tiger2709]

yes but Sanderson got the arxe which means the admin expected more from him and they were not happy with the results and direction they were going with him.
I like ROK bc he comes from a club with culture and if he could impart some of this knowledge onto us it would be of a great benefit
As stated i believe DH Sanderson and Ratten are too alike and are all from the the academy of nice guys.Lets try someone with a different angle.

I wouldn't want Ratten, but Sando may be worth a risk, but in reality the dollars he will be asking may be better spent elsewhere and yes you may be right about them being to nice, it's a shame we lost Lappeitsch imo, although the fact he got a coaching gig makes me think we must have done some things right, we also now have the truck, but we need more quality assistants, we were definitely short on assistants for DH this year.

 

[TigerImposter]

I wouldn't want Ratten, but Sando may be worth a risk, but in reality the dollars he will be asking may be better spent elsewhere and yes you may be right about them being to nice, it's a shame we lost Lappeitsch imo, although the fact he got a coaching gig makes me think we must have done some things right, we also now have the truck, but we need more quality assistants, we were definitely short on assistants for DH this year.

I remember having a chat with Lepper at Coburg a couple of years ago he spoke with nerves of steel and power
Loved the way he spoke And I reckon players would run through a brick wall for him he's that respected
I would have him back in a heart beat
Agree with you a massive loss

 

[nineteen eighty]

yes but Sanderson got the arxe which means the admin expected more from him and they were not happy with the results and direction they were going with him.
I like ROK bc he comes from a club with culture and if he could impart some of this knowledge onto us it would be of a great benefit
As stated i believe DH Sanderson and Ratten are too alike and are all from the the academy of nice guys.Lets try someone with a different angle.

I don't get what you are saying. Blokes like Sanderson, Neeld and Watters are proven assistant coaches in successful environments. All were involved in premiership teams. Their knowledge would be second to none and be of significant benefit to Hardwick.

How do you know that ROK isn't from the "academy of nice guys"? I'm not following your reasoning by throwing out the academy line. Ok I get it that you want us to try an ex player who comes from a very successful team. I think we would get greater bang for our buck and quicker return though by bringing in an experienced coach. An inexperienced coach Dimma would have to invest time in. Which would take his eyes off full time coaching of the team. An experienced coach would hit the ground running...or close enough to.

 

[TigerImposter]

I don't get what you are saying. Blokes like Sanderson, Neeld and Watters are proven assistant coaches in successful environments. All were involved in premiership teams. Their knowledge would be second to none and be of significant benefit to Hardwick.

How do you know that ROK isn't from the "academy of nice guys"? I'm not following your reasoning by throwing out the academy line. Ok I get it that you want us to try an ex player who comes from a very successful team. I think we would get greater bang for our buck and quicker return though by bringing in an experienced coach. An inexperienced coach Dimma would have to invest time in. Which would take his eyes off full time coaching of the team. An experienced coach would hit the ground running...or close enough to.

Lepper came from a successful era under a hard nosed coach
And a team with a good culture even so players took pay cuts to keep the team united
Seriously to me Sanderson Ratten Neeld have had their turn
Watters was stiff as he picked up an ageing list and was dealt a cruel blow . This is why I would prefer to go down the ROK path. You could be right with your point and only time will tell
Knowing the rfc we will probably go the safe path as we've picked up Rutten already

 

[Calcium Man]

W have room for a few coaches, seriously don't get this idea in AFL why once a guy has been senior coach and fails not to touch him any more?? People learn from their mistakes.

Ratten has been awesome at the hawks, Bailey was very very good for the crows, Gray Ayers and Matty Knights both thriving in the VFL, heck even Choco has been great for us.

 

[captain blood 17]

Why can't we develop players like other clubs.
Jay Schulz is classic, Matt White has gone up a level with Port. Tom Derickx was running around in VFL for us then goes to Sydney and is looking at a premiership. We knew he had potential but it was not tapped.
Just think, if we had developed Derickx, we would not have needed Hampson and could have got Lewis Taylor.

Are McBean and Elton going to make it like we all hope? I think Darrou might be the next one that could develop at another club. Never seen him play,, just read about him in forums but seemed to have a chance to be good.

Vickery and Griffiths would be stars in any other team. Jack would be better too.
We need to go and get a very good forward coach for these guys to teach their potential and we can match anyone with attacking power. Vlas also needs to kick on next year. After a great first season, thought he was a bit disappointing this year.

Maybe I am too worked up about the point but it is frustrating, just like the recruitment sometimes, but then Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

We just made consecutive finals for the first time since the '70's. We now have the money and infrastructure to develop players. So OP, I totally disagree with your premise.
Schultz was at the club when we were broke and simply didn't have the structures to develop him.
Matt White played no better at Port than what he did at Richmond. His last year at the tigers was as good as his season at Port.
Big Tom? Turn it up. Its a spud off between him and Hammer. When tne whips got cracking, he got dumped to the magoos.


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[TigerImposter]

W have room for a few coaches, seriously don't get this idea in AFL why once a guy has been senior coach and fails not to touch him any more?? People learn from their mistakes.

Ratten has been awesome at the hawks, Bailey was very very good for the crows, Gray Ayers and Matty Knights both thriving in the VFL, heck even Choco has been great for us.

Most of those guys you mentioned went off to successful clubs after their sackings and seriously Bailey Couldn't have stooped any Lower
Chocco as I said is a premiership coach and is the black sheep and is completely opposite to DH in traits and tactics and they complement each other bc of this just like Clarko and Ratten are opposites ie black sheep and white sheep
The key is finding the mix with guys that are creative and not monotonous with their thinking otherwise you run the risk of familiarity breeds contempt. Sorry to use the Spud line ,but look at Frawley and Britton two placid white sheep with no ideas of any difference which killed success within 12 months
I want creators and people with ideas ,motivation ,risk takers and passion for success
This is why DH should avoid people with similar coaching DNA as one is enough

Hopefully the club is aware of the size of the problem confronting us at the moment.
I Would like to think DImma, coaching staff, the board, the CEO and the list manager realize that the guys below can either be improved further or upgraded if we are to be a top four team. With two EF failures and this tail of eight batting for us I doubt we can go up one step
Morris, Newman, Grigg, Thomas, Chaplin, Houli, Pettard & Foley
Which tells us two things.
Good job to get to another elimination final with no surprise about the result.
Coaching team must either improve the above lads or work on developing talent to upgrade them if we are to go passed the EF disasters of the previous two years

Either way
Dimma and co have got their work cut out next year!

 

[nineteen eighty]

Lepper came from a successful era under a hard nosed coach
And a team with a good culture even so players took pay cuts to keep the team united
Seriously to me Sanderson Ratten Neeld have had their turn
Watters was stiff as he picked up an ageing list and was dealt a cruel blow . This is why I would prefer to go down the ROK path. You could be right with your point and only time will tell
Knowing the rfc we will probably go the safe path as we've picked up Rutten already

I didn't know we had picked up Rutten. Interesting. I don't know what his coaching credentials are but he was a smart defender and made the absolute most of limited ability...similar characteristics to Hardwick. Wish him well.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Most of those guys you mentioned went off to successful clubs after their sackings and seriously Bailey Couldn't have stooped any Lower
Chocco as I said is a premiership coach and is the black sheep and is completely opposite to DH in traits and tactics and they complement each other bc of this just like Clarko and Ratten are opposites ie black sheep and white sheep
The key is finding the mix with guys that are creative and not monotonous with their thinking otherwise you run the risk of familiarity breeds contempt. Sorry to use the Spud line ,but look at Frawley and Britton two placid white sheep with no ideas of any difference which killed success within 12 months
I want creators and people with ideas ,motivation ,risk takers and passion for success
This is why DH should avoid people with similar coaching DNA as one is enough

Hopefully the club is aware of the size of the problem confronting us at the moment.
I Would like to think DImma, coaching staff, the board, the CEO and the list manager realize that the guys below can either be improved further or upgraded if we are to be a top four team. With two EF failures and this tail of eight batting for us I doubt we can go up one step
Morris, Newman, Grigg, Thomas, Chaplin, Houli, Pettard & Foley
Which tells us two things.
Good job to get to another elimination final with no surprise about the result.
Coaching team must either improve the above lads or work on developing talent to upgrade them if we are to go passed the EF disasters of the previous two years

Either way
Dimma and co have got their work cut out next year!

I agree with this point and that's why I'm keen on getting Watters or Neeld there. I don't care if they're nice guys etc.. but they have smart football brains and understand about structures, clearance play, and importantly match day tactics. Sure they got found out as senior coaches but they got those senior gigs because they were deep thinkers who knew their footy. They would complement Hardwick nicely as I don't see him as the best tactical coach (not the worst but not the best) but is very good at man management (the other crucial component to a senior coaching role).

 

[TigerImposter]

I didn't know we had picked up Rutten. Interesting. I don't know what his coaching credentials are but he was a smart defender and made the absolute most of limited ability...similar characteristics to Hardwick. Wish him well.

Don't know his mental character ,but where have you been hiding?
He could be a deep thinker like Lepper with a hard edge about him
I hope he's not there bc he's Ivaans mate????
Just bc he's part of the team we still wait anxiously to see if it will succeed as nothing is guaranteed when it comes to coach and staff selection
The proof will be in the pudding

 

[TigerImposter]

I agree with this point and that's why I'm keen on getting Watters or Neeld there. I don't care if they're nice guys etc.. but they have smart football brains and understand about structures, clearance play, and importantly match day tactics. Sure they got found out as senior coaches but they got those senior gigs because they were deep thinkers who knew their footy. They would complement Hardwick nicely as I don't see him as the best tactical coach (not the worst but not the best) but is very good at man management (the other crucial component to a senior coaching role).

As I said I could handle Watters as he had some guts moving on senior players who were passed their expiry date and DH could do with some help in this area. All jokes aside you're right he's a different cat and could be of some use to us

 

[captain blood 17]

I agree with this point and that's why I'm keen on getting Watters or Neeld there. I don't care if they're nice guys etc.. but they have smart football brains and understand about structures, clearance play, and importantly match day tactics. Sure they got found out as senior coaches but they got those senior gigs because they were deep thinkers who knew their footy. They would complement Hardwick nicely as I don't see him as the best tactical coach (not the worst but not the best) but is very good at man management (the other crucial component to a senior coaching role).

Kneeld or Watters? You're ******* joking right? They were unmitigated disasters. At least Matthew Knights got the bombers to finals and didn't destroy the bombers list.
I would of rathered us have a crack at Ling.


Sent from my iPad using righteous man power.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Kneeld or Watters? You're ******* joking right? They were unmitigated disasters. At least Matthew Knights got the bombers to finals and didn't destroy the bombers list.
I would of rathered us have a crack at Ling.


Sent from my iPad using righteous man power.

Tell me what you really think?! All good. I'd give you a thumbs up if I could find that stupid icon thingy.

You're absolutely spot on with regards to being failed coaches. No argument from me on that one. They were however, successful assistant coaches...which is what we are talking about here. I dont want them running the coaching side of things...I want them for their footy brains. We need to improve tactically and like i said, it's not Hardwick's greatest strength. Compliment him with a someone who is strong tactically is where I am coming from. Bringing in an untried assistant coach would not necessarily guarantee they have it in them.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Don't know his mental character ,but where have you been hiding?
He could be a deep thinker like Lepper with a hard edge about him
I hope he's not their bc he's Ivaans mate????
Just bc he's part of the team we still wait anxiously to see if it will succeed as nothing is guaranteed when it comes to coach and staff selection
The proof will be in the pudding

Agree.

And yeah I missed it completely. Started a new job and it's getting in the way of my social life.

 

[captain blood 17]

Tell me what you really think?! All good. I'd give you a thumbs up if I could find that stupid icon thingy.

You're absolutely spot on with regards to being failed coaches. No argument from me on that one. They were however, successful assistant coaches...which is what we are talking about here. I dont want them running the coaching side of things...I want them for their footy brains. We need to improve tactically and like i said, it's not Hardwick's greatest strength. Compliment him with a someone who is strong tactically is where I am coming from. Bringing in an untried assistant coach would not necessarily guarantee they have it in them.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not against re-treads as coaches, but with those two in particular it was kaos behind the scenes.
The theory is fine, but not those two. I really wanted Ratten and Knights, but, very happy we got Chocco.

 

[captain blood 17]

I guess for me it's more cultural than brains that has to fit in with the coaching group as well.
Brains and style we can develop and educate.

 

[leemo]

RE: development. I hope to christ we act good on the Cotchin's words in his interview with Richo and start playing dusty as an inside mid. Time to get serious.

Definitely would love to start seeing dusty in the middle more.
IMO the playing him off half-back experiment was a fail.
At this point in time I don't think he works hard enough defensively to be played in the back half, and he looked pretty uncomfrotable at times even when he had heaps of time and space, his decision making in the back half was really poor at times, just picking the wrong option or bombing it long instead of hitting up targets. He is too valuable as both a mid and forward to be wasted in the back half when there are others coming along like Lennon and McDonough who could play that HBF position.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Just quietly, still annoys me we got nothing in terms of compo for losing Matty White

 

[Tango67]

Maybe if dusty found a tank over summer he could play midfield

 

[nineteen eighty]

Maybe if dusty found a tank over summer he could play midfield

Was at a lunch yesterday and Choco spoke. I didn't know he''s taken Martin under his wing and Martin is now very close with the Williams family. Williams spoke glowingly of Martin and made the comment that there is 50% improvement still left in him. If Williams can give Martin the family stability that he has never had, we may just see something special in 2015.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Sanderson is apparently a very good game day coach not so good at interacting with the players .........

BZZZZZZZZZ - wrong. Sanderson is a crap game day coach who is slow to react to what's unfolding on the field and often sits watching it like he's comatosed. Have a look at some of our losses this year, a good coach would have limited damage or get us across the line.

That's why so many of us are glad to see him sacked, should never have the the contract extension at the end of 2013 anyway.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Ratten has been awesome at the hawks.

Has he? is that why a no name coached Hawthorn for five weeks in Al Clarksons illness absence rather than Brett Ratten?

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

If White, Schulz, and Derickz are the best players we wish still played for us, then we've done a pretty good job at list management.



Oo a sarcasm detector, that's a real useful invention.

Good point.

Hawthorn have lost Kennedy, Franklin, McGlynn.
Geelong have lost Ablett, Chapman.
Port have lost Burgoyne, Pearce, Chaplin.
Sydney have lost Mumford, Spangher.
Collingwood have lost Beams, Daisy, Shaw.
St Kilda have lost Goddard, Dal Santo, McEvoy.
Brisbane have lost Polec, Yeo, Longer.
Melbourne have lost Thompson, Scully, Martin.
The Bulldogs have lost Ward.
The Bombers have lost Ryder, Crameri.
The Crows have lost Tippett, Davis, Gunston, Maric.
Carlton have lost Betts, Kennedy, Waite.
West Coast have lost Judd, Ebert.

 

[TigerImposter]

Was at a lunch yesterday and Choco spoke. I didn't know he''s taken Martin under his wing and Martin is now very close with the Williams family. Williams spoke glowingly of Martin and made the comment that there is 50% improvement still left in him. If Williams can give Martin the family stability that he has never had, we may just see something special in 2015.

Still cannot believe after five seasons we haven't developed him to his potential. It almost explains why DH and his merry men still have Newman and Foley on the list and continue to recruit players of the ilk of Thomas ,Hampson ,Banfield and Chaplin
We need to get better developmental staff and coaches as Martin should be running at 95- 100% at this stage of his career and not at 60-66.6666% as suggested by Chocco
I look at Heppels physique he's so more physically developed than Conca it's not funny
Even with Concad injuries he could have been doing gym work etc. Griffo 3 yrs ago looked like a bamboo reef and now after Chocco has handled him he's built up to a monster
Why is it taking years to fast track our guys? Have we got the right blokes or are we still a boys club who are settled with just being a middle of the road club??

We need a Burgess type who can train players to a power athlete standard not to a 1990 footballer level
Looking at Ports fitness regime.here are two areas we need to start looking at

Highest % of last quarters won as coach (min. 48 games):

Won Coach Clubs Career Gms Won
------------------------------------------------
68.75 Hinkley, Ken PA 2013-2014 48 33
65.00 Bisset, Jack Sy 1933-1936 80 52
63.79 Diggins, Brighton Sy,Ca 1935-1940 58 37
63.33 Angus, George Co 1909-1911 60 38
60.87 Sanderson, Brenton Ad 2012-2014 69 42
60.82 Scott, Chris Ge 2011-2014 97 59
60.43 Reynolds, Dick Es 1939-1960 417 252
60.15 Coleman, John Es 1961-1967 133 80
58.46 Clarke, Jack E. Es 1968-1970 65 38
58.04 Roos, Paul Sy,Me 2002-2014 224 130
57.89 Nicholls, John Ca 1972-1975 95 55
57.50 Coghlan, Arthur Ge 1929-1934 80 46
57.38 Barker senior, Syd Es,NM 1922-1927 61 35
57.05 Matthews, Leigh Co,Br 1986-2008 461 263
56.70 Lyon, Ross St,Fr 2007-2014 194 110


I believe this guy has had a lot to do with Port's revival -

Port's fitness boss Darren Burgess becomes highest paid in AFL

June 17, 2014
Caroline Wilson
CHIEF FOOTBALL WRITER FOR THE AGE


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...paid-in-afl-20140617-zsajj.html#ixzz3E0hu6wUS

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...paid-in-afl-20140617-zsajj.html#ixzz3E0hQRp5F

Port Adelaide's Darren Burgess has become the highest-paid high performance manager in the AFL after committing to the game's top-of-the-ladder club until the end of 2018.

Burgess, who confessed early this year that he "owed" Port Adelaide after breaking his last contract with the Power to join the Socceroos, will command an estimated $2 million over four years in a deal which overrides his current contract that ends in 2015.

Burgess returned to Port from Premier League stalwart Liverpool at the start of the 2013 pre-season, spurning an offer from Richmond and joining forces with new coach Ken Hinkley.

While Port's football department budget currently sits in the bottom six of the 18 clubs, that is expected to change next season with the new Burgess deal and new contracts being negotiated by the club's until recently no-name coaching panel.

Still one game clear at the top of the AFL ladder, Port's final term dominance this season has been largely attributed to Burgess, who has fielded a number of international offers but who said he was keen to settle in Adelaide for family reasons.

With Port's hard-running final terms built around a brutal pre-season which included a nine-day training camp in Dubai in high temperatures, the new Burgess deal includes a partnership between the club and the University of South Australia


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...paid-in-afl-20140617-zsajj.html#ixzz3E0h7hsua

 

[sante]

Bombers also lost Monfries