PLEASE try something new Buckley

[soreplums]

I agree for Cloke to be played at chf and either white closer to goal. white is a better kick for goal anyway. Reid could also play as the option of the longer kick if Cloke leads all the way up to the wing. Would be nice to have his long left foot deliver to white 30m out.

Only concern is that the game plan seems to be to carry the ball and kick deep over that 60m- 40m mark

 

[76woodenspooners]

So that brings me to the BIG point that I want to make. I have brought it up time and time again, and as obvious as it is to me, it seems to be avoiding others. My last such frustration of an obvious idea to use was to try Tarrant down back. He was quick, he had a good leap, why not try him back. Not a good idea said A LOT of supporters. That was until Tarrant went to Freo, they tried it, made a defender out of him, and then he came back as a very useful defender. So here is my next one, and I know that this guy is on a long term contract, so we can't have another team show us how to do it, but TRAVIS CLOKE IS A CENTRE HALF FORWARD. He is NOT a FULL FORWARD. I guarantee if Buckley puts him out at CHF it will work.

I don't think this is new.

IIRC Cloke played a lot at CHF in 2013, with Lynch at FF

 

[mavcib]

1. There are a few things wrong with Buckley. He has Micks out of date game plan for 1..
2. Playing out wide and the boundary doesn't work ..The players are running extra miles and their getting tired ..
3. Going back and side ways out of the back line is not good footy ..Move the ball quick up the middle and into the forward line to give the forwards the best chance 1 on 1 ..
4. Zoning grass doesn't work players are flat footed and out of position ... So play man on man and simple footy is what pies players need .
5. Buckley has no clue how to coach .. Pies and Carlton have the same game plan but pies have a much better list tho ...
Both teams will struggle till these coaches are sacked or change their game plan ...
Buckley needs to go back to basic footy. The good pies list will do the rest ... Not saying pies are a premiership side but i think at least a top 6 side for sure ..
All the best to the Pies ..

 

[mavcib]

I thought Buckley wanted us to go through the corridor but there were so many times last night where we had the ball in the backline there were free players in the middle and we kicked it 30 metres sideways to the boundary.. I think our gameplan doesn't help Travis Cloke at all.. it should be as quick as possible to the forward line and give the best contested mark in the comp 1 on 1's buckley would rather play loose players in defense take an eternity to get it to Trav and have him attempt to outmark 4 opponents and then have no crumbers near him when the ball hits the ground..

Nearly spot on Hero1 , Bucks has Micks game plan ..
Playing wide , sideways and moving the ball slow doesn't work = lack of forward entrees and makes it hard to kick a goal ..
Then you have zoning grass and space instead of playing man on man = Lazy players that have no man to pick up ..
Bucks needs to go back to basics .. while the season is early and while he has a great list ...

 

[DNine]

I don't think this is new.

IIRC Cloke played a lot at CHF in 2013, with Lynch at FF

No that didn't happen because two years ago when Cloke was annoying the crap out of me, missing goals from 30 meters out, I wanted this to happen, and I have been watching for it ever since. It just doesn't happen but should.

 

[DNine]

I think game plans are a overstated. Players individually choose what they believe to be the best option. Kicking up the line is predictable, so coaches invite players to be more creative and widen their view for other options not so obvious. Game plans are a lot more basic than what people believe. If you get too technical with a game plan, it often gets too confusing so coach do keep it fairly simple.

Simply if you use the corridore, be sure the player you're kicking too will win the one on one, or prepare to look silly when the ball sails through the opposition goals in a heartbeat.

The boundary is used a lot by all teams that don't have full faith in their key targets. If the target on the boundary can at least tie the contest, you gain the fifty meters, and get a ball in.

 

[Shaneprice97]

1. There are a few things wrong with Buckley. He has Micks out of date game plan for 1..
2. Playing out wide and the boundary doesn't work ..The players are running extra miles and their getting tired ..
3. Going back and side ways out of the back line is not good footy ..Move the ball quick up the middle and into the forward line to give the forwards the best chance 1 on 1 ..
4. Zoning grass doesn't work players are flat footed and out of position ... So play man on man and simple footy is what pies players need .
5. Buckley has no clue how to coach .. Pies and Carlton have the same game plan but pies have a much better list tho ...
Both teams will struggle till these coaches are sacked or change their game plan ...
Buckley needs to go back to basic footy. The good pies list will do the rest ... Not saying pies are a premiership side but i think at least a top 6 side for sure ..
All the best to the Pies ..

I may sound stupid, but i barely ever see us play the boundary anymore under Buckley, its always straight through the guts. Carlton however is always along the Boundary line.

 

[76woodenspooners]

No that didn't happen because two years ago when Cloke was annoying the crap out of me, missing goals from 30 meters out, I wanted this to happen, and I have been watching for it ever since. It just doesn't happen but should.

Lynch wasn't with us two years ago.

Lynch's first season with us was last year and I have distinct memories of him missing from 30 meters out directly in front, while Cloke was up the ground taking strong marks but being too far out to score.

I assure you Cloke at CHF has been done.

And worth pointing out that It's much easier for the opposition to double team him when he's at CHF.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

MM's plan encouraged delivery of the ball deep into the pockets. Players ducked into the space for the next kick. It took a while for opposition to coach filling in the gaps and then neutralise. Geelong were able to do it well because their older heads were able to marshall the troops on the ground. Same goes for Hwthorn in 2011. Now Buckley wants the ball in straighter so the onus is on the crumbers to get to Cloke's feet. They haven't come to the party on a consistent basis. Cloke needs to stay there or we'll have the same problem further up the field in more dangerous areas for the rebound.

 

[DNine]

Lynch wasn't with us two years ago.

Lynch's first season with us was last year and I have distinct memories of him missing from 30 meters out directly in front, while Cloke was up the ground taking strong marks but being too far out to score.

I assure you Cloke at CHF has been done.

And worth pointing out that It's much easier for the opposition to double team him when he's at CHF.

I didn't say Lynch was with us 2 years ago. I said I have been wanting Cloke at CHF two years ago. Cloke does venture up to the the half forward line and take marks, but that doesn't mean that is where he is playing. On Saturday night, I seen him often running up to half forward, and even seen him at half back on one occassion, but when the goal is kicked and they reset, Cloke always runs back to the square.

I am not saying it hasn't been tried for 10 minutes on an occassion or two, but it hasn't been tried any more than that. I am talking a long term stamp Cloke as a CHF and leave him there type move. You can't expect to put someone there for 10 minutes, and watch his success, and if the ball is delivered wrong, or a couple of players over kick him, it be deemed a failure. That is what happened to Tarrant. I remember at the time I was saying Tazz to defence a couple of supporters said what you are saying now of Cloke. Been done, didn't work, he looked lost and out of his depth up there. I think in Tarrants case, it was a five minute stint there once when he was getting no ball in the forward line, and MM did it as a warning to Tarrant to start doing something, or you'll go back. That is no good, neither is Cloke for ten minutes in a quarter.

Cloke should be a target from 45-85/90 meters from goal for five games straight, and despite what happens, he stays there.

 

[DNine]

Cloke needs to stay there or we'll have the same problem further up the field in more dangerous areas for the rebound.

Cloke last year was the best contested mark in the league. How do you figure he is a problem that sees the ball rebound out from his area? We haven't had a target at Half Forward since Rocca. What stuffed us up in the port game, is that Keeffe went forward and all three of them stayed in the 40. Reid, Cloke and Keeffe. No one made the half forward line theirs. It was quite ridiculous. I don't think Reid or White are the type to make Half forward theirs, only Cloke is.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

Cloke last year was the best contested mark in the league. How do you figure he is a problem that sees the ball rebound out from his area? We haven't had a target at Half Forward since Rocca. What stuffed us up in the port game, is that Keeffe went forward and all three of them stayed in the 40. Reid, Cloke and Keeffe. No one made the half forward line theirs. It was quite ridiculous. I don't think Reid or White are the type to make Half forward theirs, only Cloke is.

Didn't say he was the problem, the lack of crumbers is. I don't think the current game is centre half forward friendly since most sides carry the ball through the middle rather than look for a CHF. Under MM, whoever played CHF ended up on the wings contesting marks near the boundary and doubling back. Under Bucks, it will be bypassed as most sides are trying doing atm.

 

[DaVe86]

I think plan A is to have Cloke at FF and Jessie White at CHF and rotating in the ruck. I also think plan A is to have Ben Reid up forward to try and spread the load and draw defenders away from Cloke.

The problem we have though is:

1. Ben Reid is injured
2. The ball is not going forward enough to Cloke, and when it does the entries are scrappy.

I can count at least 3 goals over the last 2 games that have been scored from contests Cloke has made. So I think having him closer to goal is the preference. Not so much for what he scores, but the crumbs he creates.

However, when he is getting beaten by an opponent or the ball is not coming forward, then Cloke needs to get on the bike.

Remember, our defence is inexperienced and lacking some polish, so Cloke may need to present higher up the ground to give the easy target for our defenders when under pressure. When in doubt, boot it long to Cloke on the wing.

This is where Reid and White can be influential because they can provide good alternative targets closer to goal if Cloke plays higher.


In summary, Cloke needs to play closer to goal, but he also is too valuable to leave up there getting cold so if he needs to impose himself then he has to play higher.

 

[DaVe86]

Cloke last year was the best contested mark in the league. How do you figure he is a problem that sees the ball rebound out from his area? We haven't had a target at Half Forward since Rocca. What stuffed us up in the port game, is that Keeffe went forward and all three of them stayed in the 40. Reid, Cloke and Keeffe. No one made the half forward line theirs. It was quite ridiculous. I don't think Reid or White are the type to make Half forward theirs, only Cloke is.

I don't think you need a designated 'CHF' or 'FF'. What you need is to keep a defender accountable and not get into the space of the other talls.

Basically, if Cloke can get a one out opportunity, he should stay closer to goal while Reid and White lead higher up the ground. On the flip side, Reid or White might have the better match up, so Cloke needs to get on his bike then and present as the leading target.

Also, sometimes to get the one on one, you need to lead high up the ground, and turn your opponent so you can lead back into space.

The key is that White, Reid and Cloke play apart from each other and draw an opponent. Cloke can beat 2 men on his own, but he cannot beat 4. So if Reid and White are drawing their opponents away, then Cloke is going to get more opportunities.

THe problem without Reid at the moment is that White leads high or goes into the ruck, which leaves Cloke as the only tall target inside 50. Therefore all the defensive players automatically cover his space and Cloke gets mauled.

 

[DNine]

I am currently watching the game from my recording on Saturday night. You certainly get another perspective than being at the game, but I will say this. I am wrapped with Jesse White. I like him a lot. People are negative on him, but I can't see anything but a determined, quite quick guy for his height, and I don't know who is taking these stats, but I have counted 8 tap outs already, and it is 10 minutes to go in the third quarter, yet the stats say he only managed 6. He was real competitive when he went into the ruck, which is great. Lynch, Dawes and Brown were all terrible when they rucked, and you could feel a change of control slipping from us with those three. I don't feel that with White. He kicked 2 goals, which you can't ask for much more of his type, and I reckon he is coming on nicely. Just needs to be played deep forward, not high forward.

 

[No SPIN]

Nearly spot on Hero1 , Bucks has Micks game plan ..
Playing wide , sideways and moving the ball slow doesn't work = lack of forward entrees and makes it hard to kick a goal ..
Then you have zoning grass and space instead of playing man on man = Lazy players that have no man to pick up ..
Bucks needs to go back to basics .. while the season is early and while he has a great list ...

Man on Man was the reason we ended up winning SWANS game - so you are definitely wrong that its not part of Bucks' planning

 

[DaVe86]

Man on Man was the reason we ended up winning SWANS game - so you are definitely wrong that its not part of Bucks' planning

I wouldn't say we played man on man agaisnt SYdney. Each side had numbers across half back. Reid spent a lot of the game blocking Cloke's space. We just utilised our spare men better and Cloke was a better focal point that Franklin.

 

[DNine]

6 minutes 30 seconds, Cloke goes up for the mark, and Lonergan simply tackles him. It was ridiculous of the highest order, and highlights the mis treatment of Cloke perfectly. A few weeks back in the third quarter, Brown placed a hand on his direct opponents back, and was pulled up, yet this moment in the game on Saturday night, was why we shake our heads, and can't understand the umpiring.

Pendlebury was slung to the ground on Saturday night, and I was lined up with the umpire looking directly at it, and the Pendlebury contest. This umpire seen it clearly, no one running in between him and the contest, and he looked at it, and deemed it fair, play on. In from my right, and behind the Pendlebury contest came the darker headed umpire, who seen what was obviously a free kick, and came in and gave it to Pendlebury who goaled.

When you lose by only 11 points, it could mean that 2 calls never went your way. If the umpire only 3 meters from the Pendlebury incident had his way, we would of lost by more.

People complain about umpiring all the time, and any further bagging of the umpire is just seen as another complaint. Nothing to set that aside from the others. I just don't know how they can be so bad. I don't mind a fast and speedy free kick being missed, as they are not elevated like us, they can't see what the people in the stands see, and the TV shows, so I get that. What I don't get is this Cloke one, the Pendlebury one, when it is that obvious to where ever you are in the whole stadium. Then at 5 minutes 48 seconds , Caddy then does heaps less than what Lonergan did minutes earlier, and is called for a free at CHB. It is baffling. Do they hate Cloke. He isn't even complaining to them anymore. He seems of the understanding that the Umpires are so stupid, they will never get it right. I wish I could do it.

So we might say they don't like giving kicks close to goal, but then, with 3 minutes 54 seconds left of the third quarter, McIntosh all night to this point, has been clearly pushing, pulling and holding a smaller statured Grundy. To this point the ruck contests have been let go. Grundy is trying to give as good as he gets. Then here, he slightly and momentarily holds McIntoshes arm. Mind you, when McIntosh runs in, he throws his arm over Grundy's shoulder, so it was by no means one way. The umpire, in his wisdom, pulls Grundy, and McIntosh kicks the goal.

Cloke gets his free, McIntosh doesn't get this one, Cloke kicks his goal 35 meters out, and this ruck duel is let go as it should be, we win they lose. Now this is only two incidents. These happened all night, especially with Cloke. So how important is the umpires to get these things right.

Moments later AGAIN, Grundy is going up for a ball, I have it frozen as I type on 1 minute 37 on the clock. Grundy arms straight out to the side, has front spot. The Geelong ruckman Simpson I believe wraps his arms around Grundy's arms, and holds him back from running at the ball, and getting a tap. The umpire must of had a bug fly into his ear, and pulverised his brain, because his view on it, is that Grundy is holding him out of the contest. This is absolutely mind numbing for Grundy, who can not believe his luck. The replay almost confirms the tv turned off for at least five previous AFL supporters, that have had enough.

The umpires thoughts at this time could only be how safe his bet is that his buddy put on for him, and how Collingwood will be lucky to get back from the onslaught from the umpires in the past five minutes. THIS footage needs to be taken to the AFL, and shown. We deserve an apology, these five minutes have been dreadful.

We can't change it on the day, but I think it is derelict of the Collingwood Football club and it's duties to not take these incidence on a tape to the Umpires, and ask a please explain. It could very well be the difference between us sitting 2 and 1, or as we are 1 and 2.

 

[Hardas]

I am currently watching the game from my recording on Saturday night. You certainly get another perspective than being at the game, but I will say this. I am wrapped with Jesse White. I like him a lot. People are negative on him, but I can't see anything but a determined, quite quick guy for his height, and I don't know who is taking these stats, but I have counted 8 tap outs already, and it is 10 minutes to go in the third quarter, yet the stats say he only managed 6. He was real competitive when he went into the ruck, which is great. Lynch, Dawes and Brown were all terrible when they rucked, and you could feel a change of control slipping from us with those three. I don't feel that with White. He kicked 2 goals, which you can't ask for much more of his type, and I reckon he is coming on nicely. Just needs to be played deep forward, not high forward.

He will need to mark overhead more consistently to play deeper to effect, but I agree that he is showing lots of good signs.
Getting Reid back will make for a potent mix.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

6 minutes 30 seconds, Cloke goes up for the mark, and Lonergan simply tackles him. It was ridiculous of the highest order, and highlights the mis treatment of Cloke perfectly. A few weeks back in the third quarter, Brown placed a hand on his direct opponents back, and was pulled up, yet this moment in the game on Saturday night, was why we shake our heads, and can't understand the umpiring.

Pendlebury was slung to the ground on Saturday night, and I was lined up with the umpire looking directly at it, and the Pendlebury contest. This umpire seen it clearly, no one running in between him and the contest, and he looked at it, and deemed it fair, play on. In from my right, and behind the Pendlebury contest came the darker headed umpire, who seen what was obviously a free kick, and came in and gave it to Pendlebury who goaled.

When you lose by only 11 points, it could mean that 2 calls never went your way. If the umpire only 3 meters from the Pendlebury incident had his way, we would of lost by more.

People complain about umpiring all the time, and any further bagging of the umpire is just seen as another complaint. Nothing to set that aside from the others. I just don't know how they can be so bad. I don't mind a fast and speedy free kick being missed, as they are not elevated like us, they can't see what the people in the stands see, and the TV shows, so I get that. What I don't get is this Cloke one, the Pendlebury one, when it is that obvious to where ever you are in the whole stadium. Then at 5 minutes 48 seconds , Caddy then does heaps less than what Lonergan did minutes earlier, and is called for a free at CHB. It is baffling. Do they hate Cloke. He isn't even complaining to them anymore. He seems of the understanding that the Umpires are so stupid, they will never get it right. I wish I could do it.

So we might say they don't like giving kicks close to goal, but then, with 3 minutes 54 seconds left of the third quarter, McIntosh all night to this point, has been clearly pushing, pulling and holding a smaller statured Grundy. To this point the ruck contests have been let go. Grundy is trying to give as good as he gets. Then here, he slightly and momentarily holds McIntoshes arm. Mind you, when McIntosh runs in, he throws his arm over Grundy's shoulder, so it was by no means one way. The umpire, in his wisdom, pulls Grundy, and McIntosh kicks the goal.

Cloke gets his free, McIntosh doesn't get this one, Cloke kicks his goal 35 meters out, and this ruck duel is let go as it should be, we win they lose. Now this is only two incidents. These happened all night, especially with Cloke. So how important is the umpires to get these things right.

Moments later AGAIN, Grundy is going up for a ball, I have it frozen as I type on 1 minute 37 on the clock. Grundy arms straight out to the side, has front spot. The Geelong ruckman Simpson I believe wraps his arms around Grundy's arms, and holds him back from running at the ball, and getting a tap. The umpire must of had a bug fly into his ear, and pulverised his brain, because his view on it, is that Grundy is holding him out of the contest. This is absolutely mind numbing for Grundy, who can not believe his luck. The replay almost confirms the tv turned off for at least five previous AFL supporters, that have had enough.

The umpires thoughts at this time could only be how safe his bet is that his buddy put on for him, and how Collingwood will be lucky to get back from the onslaught from the umpires in the past five minutes. THIS footage needs to be taken to the AFL, and shown. We deserve an apology, these five minutes have been dreadful.

We can't change it on the day, but I think it is derelict of the Collingwood Football club and it's duties to not take these incidence on a tape to the Umpires, and ask a please explain. It could very well be the difference between us sitting 2 and 1, or as we are 1 and 2.

It'd be far easier and beneficial to fix our crap goalkicking. Which would probably be the worst in the comp. Cloke is rubbish at it.

 

[Hardas]

It'd be far easier and beneficial to fix our crap goalkicking. Which would probably be the worst in the comp. Cloke is rubbish at it.

It's definitely disturbing how far below the league average we seem to remain.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

It's definitely disturbing how far below the league average we seem to remain.

A natural cycle only Geelong, Sydney and Collingwood have managed to break! Its been almost a decade of consecutive finals after all, it does look our turn to go down for a bit.

Hawks fell into the cycle after having missed finals a few times after '08. I can't think of too many other teams being so consistent besides Cats. Saints from mid 2000s onwards perhaps, but they are still following the script post 2010.

 

[mavcib]

Man on Man was the reason we ended up winning SWANS game - so you are definitely wrong that its not part of Bucks' planning

Oh really Really ...I can see your wrong and that's why you have no clue about football ..
Have you ever thought that Swans play man on man again'st the pies and that's why swans lose to the pies often.. the man on man plan suits the pies ...
Man on man the pies have a great list, which Mick has wasted and now bucks is doing the same thing ...
Geelong worked micks game plan out years ago under Bomber Thomson that's why they beat us often ... Since Bomber quit the cats as coach, the cats have lost to the pies often (new coach ) once again pies have a great list an are doing okay Vs cats .. Most other clubs have worked the zoning game plan out ... Bombers will smash the pies .... Ratten worked out the pies game plan before he was knifed by Carlton and that's why Ratts smashed the pies twice before his sacking ...Then the overrated blues hire Mick and the old zoning game plan and bang Bucks and mick play the same wide zoning game plan now.. Tigers are beating the blues these days .(Micks game plan has been worked out )
Blues are going backwards and so are the pies because most other coaches know the Mick & Buckley zoning, wide , going backwards boundary line game plan .. Both sides forwards don't get a chance one on one ... Stats between the pies and blues every week now are nearly the same .. low forward line entries ..Forwards scores like 9 goals 13 behinds each week. While most side have almost 30 scoring shots a game with low pressure again'st Pies and Blues ...( slow wide entrees in to the forward line cause this bad goal scoring ) Ratts didn't have a high scoring problem before Mick.... Mick comes along and band again low scoring like bucks with no pressure ..
I could honestly coach better than mick & bucks . With simple footy quick up the guts into the forward line ,to give forwards a chance and man on man ..No zoning it's not NBL or NBA ...Collingwood has a top 5 list and Calrton have a 10 to 7 list.. Both coaches are out of date with the game plan .. Both side will struggle and will until the game plan changes or both are sacked ..Simple..

 

[mavcib]

I may sound stupid, but i barely ever see us play the boundary anymore under Buckley, its always straight through the guts. Carlton however is always along the Boundary line.

1 minute and 15 seconds left against the cats pies are 5 points coming out of the back line ..
So Maxy runs to the boundary line and the kick dribbles out of bounds .. Game over ..
You must watch a different game ..

 

[Shaneprice97]

1 minute and 15 seconds left against the cats pies are 5 points coming out of the back line ..
So Maxy runs to the boundary line and the kick dribbles out of bounds .. Game over ..
You must watch a different game ..

Thats more instinct than an actual game plan.