Autopsy Rd 11, 2022 - Loss vs. Saints - Jack's 250th

[HBFlanker]

It felt more competitive at the game, but their backline just destroyed our forwards. Hill and Sinclair just did as they liked.

We were really carried by Mcdonald, goldstein and Jed. Thats a concern. Jy was decent but 13 clangers is way too many. i counted 4 times he got the ball and just slammed it on the boot without looking. If he is going to continue to do that then Comben needs to be playing every week to at least provide a contest at CHF. Larkey needs to stay close to home. looks lost up on the wings.

No room for Greenwood, and no room for Turner going forward. Greenwood has offered absolutely nothing to this side. He was only brought in as he is mates with Noble. Jed is 5x the footballer.

Id be going with the following:

Outs: Greenwood, Turner, Xerri, Hayden
Ins: Mckay, Comben, Stephenson, Mcguiness

Hayden very very unlucky, but we can actually win this game.

Play Mcguiness as a hybrid defender. Hes ready to go. Better off playing him than Turner.

Dropping Greenwood for Stephenson makes sense. The only blokes in our midfield who are actually decent kicks are Thomas and JHF. The others are below par. Stephenson can add to this mix of decent kicks. Our mix of inside/outside is not right. We need to run a mix of the following:

Inside
Jy
LDU*
Jed
JHF

Outside
Thomas
Stephenson
Powell
LDU*

Xerri isnt ready yet. Give Goldy the reigns for a few weeks and make X earn his spot back.

As bizarre as this sounds id almost offer Goldy another year. If X cracks the sads thats fine. He either stays and wants to earn his spot or he leaves and we get a solid return. People seem to forget that every year that goes by the closer we become to Edwards being our number 1 ruck. Im sick of hearing about our ruck dilemma. CCJ has been woeful and X is too inconsistent.

Giving Goldy another year at least offers us some stability in that area, where we need it most.

We need to get games into Goater soon too. No point waiting, we arent winning anyway.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

The worst thing about this game for me was the feeling that while we are supposedly rebuilding, and JHF aside, I thought St Kilda had the three better performed young players on the ground in Windhager, Owens, and Wanganeen. We are not just going into games without hope, our kids aren't developing in this losing environment. People can continue to buy into Noble's sales pitch, but the facts on the ground aren't great.

This is why there's a growing cohort of posters who have been critical of what's happening in the coaching department at North. This season and last season.

We know that there are at least a few players that are capable at AFL standard. But we are not seeing many playing to their ability other than the odd cameo or flash of brilliance.

It is a big problem no matter what the cause is. And I won't pretend that I can diagnose the cause so I won't even try.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

Laidley wasn't perfect but look at the list that was constructed during that time and the fact that each year we either made finals or produced some noteworthy performances.

ie - 2003 drawing with the eventual premiers, 2004 smashing the eventual premiers etc.

The era lacked plenty of course but up against the last 3 years it was like a run of premierships.

No matter what the club had or didn't have, Laidley got a lot out of the team. They played rough but especially in the first couple of seasons, they were engaged and gave supporters hope.

The end of the Laidley era and Scott coming in as coach changed North, and not for the better. Even a winning streak in 2016 felt like a false dawn. And it was. It turned into a losing streak and it still feels like the handbrake is on.

 

[Forever North]

Laidley was a brilliant match day coach and tactician. Our list was in transition with plenty of role players. We would stay in games for as long as possible with a solid game plan then he would pull a trigger with a couple of match winning moves towards the end of games. Not pretty but got everything out of the players.
Nowdays it’s a case of respectable 50 point losses and watching JHF bust his you know what.

 

[tazaa]

Laidley wasn't perfect but look at the list that was constructed during that time and the fact that each year we either made finals or produced some noteworthy performances.

ie - 2003 drawing with the eventual premiers, 2004 smashing the eventual premiers etc.

The era lacked plenty of course but up against the last 3 years it was like a run of premierships.

Under Laidley we drew with the premier in 2003, belted the premier in 2004, beat the premier in 2005, beat the premier in 2007 and beat the premier in 2008.
2006 the only fail until he resigned.

 

[King Corey]

Under Laidley we drew with the premier in 2003, belted the premier in 2004, beat the premier in 2005, beat the premier in 2007 and beat the premier in 2008.
2006 the only fail until he resigned.

Even in 2006 in the middle of a s**t spell we had a lift and took out Geelong and the dogs iirc.

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

Under Laidley we drew with the premier in 2003, belted the premier in 2004, beat the premier in 2005, beat the premier in 2007 and beat the premier in 2008.
2006 the only fail until he resigned.

Imagine if the club had been well resourced and on par with other Melbourne clubs (off field) at the time. Honestly, I think there is way more talent on the list today (abeit, holes) but a Laidly coached team from any of those years would kill the team of today. It wouldn't beat today's top teams, but it would beat any of the bottom half.

And the losers would come off bruised and sore.

 

[tazaa]

Even in 2006 in the middle of a s**t spell we had a lift and took out Geelong and the dogs iirc.

We beat the Dogs at the G when they were flying. We beat the Cats in Canberra to kill off their season. We pushed Melbourne to within a kick and they were top of the ladder? Then we booked Archer, Jones, Grant in for season ending surgery which helped kick start our 2007 campaign.

 

[King Corey]

We beat the Dogs at the G when they were flying. We beat the Cats in Canberra to kill of their season. We pushed Melbourne to within a kick and they were top of the ladder? Then we booked Archer, Jones, Grant in for season ending surgery which helped kick start our 2007 campaign.

Something I posted a couple of weeks ago in sympathy to Noble was comparing the lists Pagan left for Laidley, Laidley left for Scott and Scott/Shaw left for Noble.

At the time (2009) we were a bit down on Laidley and time had come for a change. Credit to Laids though who showed class as always and stepped aside without being a dickhead about it. Just like retiring as a player mid-season 1997 when the time had come to give someone else a shot.

While it didn't have the premiership stars Pagan was able to hand over, looking back Laidley handed over a very decent list with a strong work and culture ethic ingrained too.

For a start Scott inherited Grima, Thompson, Hansen, Petrie, McIntosh, Hale, Goldstein as talls. Plus O'Keefe and Smith as depth.

That's a properly planned spine.

 

[shintemaster]

It felt more competitive at the game, but their backline just destroyed our forwards. Hill and Sinclair just did as they liked.

We were really carried by Mcdonald, goldstein and Jed. Thats a concern. Jy was decent but 13 clangers is way too many. i counted 4 times he got the ball and just slammed it on the boot without looking. If he is going to continue to do that then Comben needs to be playing every week to at least provide a contest at CHF. Larkey needs to stay close to home. looks lost up on the wings.

No room for Greenwood, and no room for Turner going forward. Greenwood has offered absolutely nothing to this side. He was only brought in as he is mates with Noble. Jed is 5x the footballer.

Id be going with the following:

Outs: Greenwood, Turner, Xerri, Hayden
Ins: Mckay, Comben, Stephenson, Mcguiness

Hayden very very unlucky, but we can actually win this game.

Play Mcguiness as a hybrid defender. Hes ready to go. Better off playing him than Turner.

Dropping Greenwood for Stephenson makes sense. The only blokes in our midfield who are actually decent kicks are Thomas and JHF. The others are below par. Stephenson can add to this mix of decent kicks. Our mix of inside/outside is not right. We need to run a mix of the following:

Inside
Jy
LDU*
Jed
JHF

Outside
Thomas
Stephenson
Powell
LDU*

Xerri isnt ready yet. Give Goldy the reigns for a few weeks and make X earn his spot back.

As bizarre as this sounds id almost offer Goldy another year. If X cracks the sads thats fine. He either stays and wants to earn his spot or he leaves and we get a solid return. People seem to forget that every year that goes by the closer we become to Edwards being our number 1 ruck. Im sick of hearing about our ruck dilemma. CCJ has been woeful and X is too inconsistent.

Giving Goldy another year at least offers us some stability in that area, where we need it most.

We need to get games into Goater soon too. No point waiting, we arent winning anyway.

Good right up overall. A couple of thoughts:

• Jed has shown almost immediately his value now that he is fit, is he a long term fixture - not sure. But he offers a significant amount of pressure, takes marks, kicked a goal (something our forwards struggled with) and his clangers are certainly no more frequent than say Jy who is amongst our leaders. I still rate him.
• Your comment on Larkey up field is astute IMO. He is not really a lead up marking player and it seems a bit of a folly to expect that. Typically I see him taking marks through outsmarting (particularly out positioning and body work) on his opponents. He reads the drop of the ball extremely well but he is not a lead up tall forward. Need to play him to his strengths.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Kanga Glory]

View attachment 1412508

Jedi abit stiff

 

[tazaa]

Something I posted a couple of weeks ago in sympathy to Noble was comparing the lists Pagan left for Laidley, Laidley left for Scott and Scott/Shaw left for Noble.

At the time (2009) we were a bit down on Laidley and time had come for a change. Credit to Laids though who showed class as always and stepped aside without being a dickhead about it. Just like retiring as a player mid-season 1997 when the time had come to give someone else a shot.

While it didn't have the premiership stars Pagan was able to hand over, looking back Laidley handed over a very decent list with a strong work and culture ethic ingrained too.

For a start Scott inherited Grima, Thompson, Hansen, Petrie, McIntosh, Hale, Goldstein as talls. Plus O'Keefe and Smith as depth.

That's a properly planned spine.

Noble could have had Brown, Larkey, Goldstein, Campbell, Xerri, Tarrant, McKay, Corr, Majak and Comben. Even Walker.

We had talls and I had no issues moving on Brown, Tarrant and Majak so long as we replaced them with anyone. We didn’t. Noble has been burnt by the list management decisions and availability but it’s concerning he didn’t kick up a stink and a fuss watching his list get decimated and get replaced with Edwards, CCJ and Young and a whole bunch of flankers and mid range types. Our drafting priorities seem completely off.

It’s no surprise we had the resignations. Positions untenable based on the list at the moment.

 

[big_e]

It felt more competitive at the game, but their backline just destroyed our forwards. Hill and Sinclair just did as they liked.

We were really carried by Mcdonald, goldstein and Jed. Thats a concern. Jy was decent but 13 clangers is way too many. i counted 4 times he got the ball and just slammed it on the boot without looking. If he is going to continue to do that then Comben needs to be playing every week to at least provide a contest at CHF. Larkey needs to stay close to home. looks lost up on the wings.

No room for Greenwood, and no room for Turner going forward. Greenwood has offered absolutely nothing to this side. He was only brought in as he is mates with Noble. Jed is 5x the footballer.

Id be going with the following:

Outs: Greenwood, Turner, Xerri, Hayden
Ins: Mckay, Comben, Stephenson, Mcguiness

Hayden very very unlucky, but we can actually win this game.

Play Mcguiness as a hybrid defender. Hes ready to go. Better off playing him than Turner.

Dropping Greenwood for Stephenson makes sense. The only blokes in our midfield who are actually decent kicks are Thomas and JHF. The others are below par. Stephenson can add to this mix of decent kicks. Our mix of inside/outside is not right. We need to run a mix of the following:

Inside
Jy
LDU*
Jed
JHF

Outside
Thomas
Stephenson
Powell
LDU*

Xerri isnt ready yet. Give Goldy the reigns for a few weeks and make X earn his spot back.

As bizarre as this sounds id almost offer Goldy another year. If X cracks the sads thats fine. He either stays and wants to earn his spot or he leaves and we get a solid return. People seem to forget that every year that goes by the closer we become to Edwards being our number 1 ruck. Im sick of hearing about our ruck dilemma. CCJ has been woeful and X is too inconsistent.

Giving Goldy another year at least offers us some stability in that area, where we need it most.

We need to get games into Goater soon too. No point waiting, we arent winning anyway.

Would be madness to let Goldy go now. Clearly our number one ruck, and if there's anything we have learned this year, it's that we need quality senior players.

 

[HBFlanker]

Would be madness to let Goldy go now. Clearly our number one ruck, and if there's anything we have learned this year, it's that we need quality senior players.

Agree 100%. Especially when CCJ has proven nothing.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Another week, another tag team pounding from opposition HBF’s.

 

[giantroo]