Autopsy Rd 18 Carlton v North Melbourne Post Match Discussion

[carlton2dabone]

You have a short memory cos Yarran has had these issues form day one.
Henderson has had his injuries, then showed the right stuff to get back from his injuries.
This year he has not given a yelp in the last year of his contract.

At one stage it was our captain (number 1 pick) that we were lambasting for not putting in the required effort.
At another stage it was Gibbs (another number 1 pick) that was and still is lambasted for not putting in the required effort.
At another stage it was Tuohy that was lambasted, and at yet another stage it was Carrazo.
Garlett when he was with us had many times when he was lambasted for not putting in the required effort. Same with Waite. Same with Fevola.

Now we have Yarran and Henderson lambasted for not putting in the required effort.


Either we as a club seem to only know how to get players that don't want to give the required effort every game, or there is something wrong at the club that ends up making really good players refuse to give 100% all the time.

I know which one makes more sense to me.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Has there ever been a player with so-called 'elite' disposal that butchers it more than Yarran?

Every second kick either bounces in front of his target or goes straight down the opposition's throat.

 

[carlton2dabone]

You are aiming this at the football department, not the board so you have taken a different fork in the road from the one I was addressing Harks about. I agree that development is lacking or the recruiting is lacking as far as identifying players with AFL level skills. For their part the CEO and board has been shuffling bodies through these positions because of this very reason. That does not mean however that the player will succeed with these things in place.

There is also an assumption that the club have not had these things in place. That may or may not be true.

The buck stops the board.
If those people cannot identify the right people for the football department and as a result need to shuffle bodies through those positions then that suggests the board is the one that needs shuffling.

But that's a discussion that I think we all agree on, so I didn't focus on that fork in the road cause I don't think any of us would disagree that the board needs to change.

Lastly, its fairly evident that the club hasn't focused enough on improving or maintaining the skills of the players, heck, the club doesn't even have a recognisable game plan that any of us can understand.
A player that makes to AFL level surely has the basic skills of the game, does he not?
So if our players these days cannot even execute a simple 2 metre handball without it landing at the feet or going over the head of his team mate on a consistent basis, then I can only conclude that the club doesn't want to invest time or resources into maintaining the skills that got these players to AFL level in the first place.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The buck stops the board.
If those people cannot identify the right people for the football department and as a result need to shuffle bodies through those positions then that suggests the board is the one that needs shuffling.

But that's a discussion that I think we all agree on, so I didn't focus on that fork in the road cause I don't think any of us would disagree that the board needs to change.

Lastly, its fairly evident that the club hasn't focused enough on improving or maintaining the skills of the players, heck, the club doesn't even have a recognisable game plan that any of us can understand.
A player that makes to AFL level surely has the basic skills of the game, does he not?
So if our players these days cannot even execute a simple 2 metre handball without it landing at the feet or going over the head of his team mate on a consistent basis, then I can only conclude that the club doesn't want to invest time or resources into maintaining the skills that got these players to AFL level in the first place.

This is all way too simplistic for me. The board is a voluntary collection of businessmen with skills in business. They brainstorm ideas in conjunction with real football people who are paid to these things. Very few board members anywhere nous to recognise that a coach was the right one, that a recruiter was the right one, that somebody can coach. The best thing they can do is have a panel select a coach as they are now doing but you can forgive them for thinking that Mick Malthouse knew how to motivate and develop players. What the hell do you honestly expect from them?

No ... they put apparently competent people in charge of their fields of expertise after hearing their vision, and they have regular meetings to find out how they are reaching their objectives. If they are not, they pull the reigns tighter, if they still are not, they replace them. I don't have unrealistic expectations of people not qualified to judge these things. Having said that, our board needs a greater representation of analytical football people on it, but those people seek out football jobs not volunteer board positions where you have to fundraise and liase with big business.

I would like to see Fraser Brown on the board as he is qualified on the football and business side and I think Chris Judd would make a fantastic director.

 

[Doro]

The buck stops the board.
If those people cannot identify the right people for the football department and as a result need to shuffle bodies through those positions then that suggests the board is the one that needs shuffling.

But that's a discussion that I think we all agree on, so I didn't focus on that fork in the road cause I don't think any of us would disagree that the board needs to change.

Lastly, its fairly evident that the club hasn't focused enough on improving or maintaining the skills of the players, heck, the club doesn't even have a recognisable game plan that any of us can understand.
A player that makes to AFL level surely has the basic skills of the game, does he not?
So if our players these days cannot even execute a simple 2 metre handball without it landing at the feet or going over the head of his team mate on a consistent basis, then I can only conclude that the club doesn't want to invest time or resources into maintaining the skills that got these players to AFL level in the first place.

Every year the teams at the wrong end of the ladder exhibit the same issues we do. Its our time unfortunately. We all wanted our recruiters to succeed, but they didn't. Too old fashioned in method. The new admin has been making changes including recruiting/ list management. That's what they should be doing. Hopefully the board can evolve and improve over time, though people have to want to do it first.

 

[HARKER]

So who are we playing next week?

We don't even want the thread. Things are bad.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So who are we playing next week?

We don't even want the thread. Things are bad.

You weren't here 2002 ... 2003 .... 2005 .... 2006 .... 2007 Apathy is normal for these really bad years.

 

[HARKER]

You weren't here 2002 ... 2003 .... 2005 .... 2006 .... 2007 Apathy is normal for these really bad years.

The past is the past and good or bad, we move onto the next weeks games.

Collingwood have just under 200 posts re this match but we haven't even got a thread yet.

 

[Aphrodite]

So who are we playing next week?

We don't even want the thread. Things are bad.

Check the Game Previews thread Harks.

Should be up tonight.

 

[HARKER]

Check the Game Previews thread Harks.

Should be up tonight.

It just strikes me odd that it's a no go zone, Aph.
Most (many) boards have the next weeks game clicked in, the moment a game has finished.

Maybe we're different here for a very good reason, but being left alone to only discuss a game that finished 24 hours ago, is strange to me. Old news.

 

[thylacine60]

Nah, I know the post comes off pessimistic but wasn't intended. Just need to acknowledge where we are at bluntly and move forward. Deal with today and tomorrow and stop blaming yesterday as it changes nothing.

Mate, I'm suggesting it was as good a summary of our situation as I've seen. Just spot-on like a crumpet truck that's lost it's load outside the factory that makes the King of the Mountain Le Tour jerseys. Seriously well done.

 

[JamisonRun40]

Just don't watch it. I had a great night!

So did I rp84.

 

[carlton2dabone]

This is all way too simplistic for me. The board is a voluntary collection of businessmen with skills in business. They brainstorm ideas in conjunction with real football people who are paid to these things. Very few board members anywhere nous to recognise that a coach was the right one, that a recruiter was the right one, that somebody can coach. The best thing they can do is have a panel select a coach as they are now doing but you can forgive them for thinking that Mick Malthouse knew how to motivate and develop players. What the hell do you honestly expect from them?

No ... they put apparently competent people in charge of their fields of expertise after hearing their vision, and they have regular meetings to find out how they are reaching their objectives. If they are not, they pull the reigns tighter, if they still are not, they replace them. I don't have unrealistic expectations of people not qualified to judge these things. Having said that, our board needs a greater representation of analytical football people on it, but those people seek out football jobs not volunteer board positions where you have to fundraise and liase with big business.

I would like to see Fraser Brown on the board as he is qualified on the football and business side and I think Chris Judd would make a fantastic director.

See that's just letting the board off the hook to easily.
If they don't have the skills to assess the right person for a certain job, then they should not have the ultimate say in who gets the jobs.
And if they brainstorm ideas in conjunction with real football people who are paid to do these things, then they deserve to cop the blame when they make the wrong final decisions.

If a group of people get to make the final decisions, then that group of people should get the blame when those final decisions turn out to be so monumentally wrong that the club tanks to the bottom of the ladder.
MM was sacked because he was held responsible for our performances, and the board needs the same accountability for giving MM the gig in the first place.

 

[Aphrodite]

It just strikes me odd that it's a no go zone, Aph.
Most (many) boards have the next weeks game clicked in, the moment a game has finished.

Maybe we're different here for a very good reason, but being left alone to only discuss a game that finished 24 hours ago, is strange to me. Old news.

Yes we normally do but this week it's my fault as I only tagged the poster yesterday that they were up next for Rnd 19.

It has nothing to do with it being a no go zone.
It's a part of our Board projects that I ask posters at the beginning of the season to nominate for the previews from rnds 1 - 23.

We have spoken about this before Harks.

If you want to start a preview, put up your hand next year.

It's only fair to the poster that has nominated a certain game that they start the preview.

If it's not up in a few hours, I will start the thread.

 

[HARKER]

Yes we normally do but this week it's my fault as I only tagged the poster yesterday that they were up next for Rnd 19.

It has nothing to do with it being a no go zone.
It's a part of our Board projects that I ask posters at the beginning of the season to nominate for the previews from rnds 1 - 23.

We have spoken about this before Harks.

If you want to start a preview, put up your hand next year.

It's only fair to the poster that has nominated a certain game that they start the preview.

If it's not up in a few hours, I will start the thread.

Fair enough and it's not because I'm bursting at the seams for wanting to push in players that played well in the VFL today.

 

[Aphrodite]

Fair enough and it's not because I'm bursting at the seams for wanting to push in players that played well in the VFL today.

YES you are.

 

[RedFury]

Nah, I know the post comes off pessimistic but wasn't intended. Just need to acknowledge where we are at bluntly and move forward. Deal with today and tomorrow and stop blaming yesterday as it changes nothing.

Pretty sure that was Thy's way of saying he really, really liked your post.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

See that's just letting the board off the hook to easily.
If they don't have the skills to assess the right person for a certain job, then they should not have the ultimate say in who gets the jobs.
And if they brainstorm ideas in conjunction with real football people who are paid to do these things, then they deserve to cop the blame when they make the wrong final decisions.

If a group of people get to make the final decisions, then that group of people should get the blame when those final decisions turn out to be so monumentally wrong that the club tanks to the bottom of the ladder.
MM was sacked because he was held responsible for our performances, and the board needs the same accountability for giving MM the gig in the first place.

So if you are no good in your job, you believe your boss should be sacked for hiring you, regardless of your qualifications, regardless of how well you interviewed. They should have seen that you weren't the right fit from the outset ... right?

By the way, don't think that Swann and now Trigg and the likes of McKay don't have some a lot of informed input into football personnel changes. The board just rubber stamp these things after a lot of discussion.

 

[jj1978]

I think the board is fine at the moment.. Once the new pres came on board Mick already could read the writing on the wall... ! McKay and SOS are the brains football dept wise now and Trigg is taking measures required in other departments.

Our previous board spent all our coaching money hoping for the one man band in Mick to solve it all, leaving the leftovers for cheap has-been coaches, rookie coaches and yes men to Mick.

New era has started and the final pieces will fall into place in the coming weeks... Let's embrace the new dawn..

 

[koutamarto]

Weirdest post match thread ever.

 

[thylacine60]

Has there ever been a player with so-called 'elite' disposal that butchers it more than Yarran?

Every second kick either bounces in front of his target or goes straight down the opposition's throat.

never used to

 

[Keyza]

I had an awful night at footy, and I am not talking about the game.
Despite having reserved seats in a supposedly "Carlton members" area we had loads of North supporters sneaking into the seats.
A group of drunk North supporters got past the attendant and sat near us hurling abuse at supporters and the players. Deciding we had had enough we told the attendant to check their tickets and they were asked to leave. This then prompted another lot of abuse aimed at my small group when they stood behind the seating area.
Another North supporter confronted one of us and to add insult to injury the attendant asked us not to swear at them, something we didnt do.
The final straw was 2 Etihad attendants coming down and asked to see our tickets, the innocent victims of abuse being asked to show we had valid tickets.
I have never been so disgusted at not so much the treatment from the moron North supporters but from the incompetent Etihad officials who cant do their jobs properly by checking tickets.
I will seriously re-think joining again next year as I have to wonder why I fork out over $600 for a memberhip only go be surrounded by the opposition supporters.
Anyone else have the same issues with opposition supporters sitting in "our" areas?
I have had enough.

 

[carlton2dabone]

So if you are no good in your job, you believe your boss should be sacked for hiring you, regardless of your qualifications, regardless of how well you interviewed. They should have seen that you weren't the right fit from the outset ... right?

By the way, don't think that Swann and now Trigg and the likes of McKay don't have some a lot of informed input into football personnel changes. The board just rubber stamp these things after a lot of discussion.

Well if the boss isn't held accountable for hiring the wrong people for the job, then he shouldn't get the responsibility for getting to choose who he hires.

I keep going back to the fact that an entire team has had their skills decline at an alarming rate, to the point where even our most skilful users of the ball are missing easy targets on a regular basis.
Something like this doesn't just happen for no reason, and whether its the football department that is responsible by not focusing any time or resources on maintaining the skills of players, or whether the board is responsible for not having the right people with the right plan in the football department, the point still remains that something is so wrong at the club and it needs to be identified and fixed.

We can blame the players all we like and trade them out one after the other, but that's just taking the easy way out instead figuring out why everyone of our best players has gone through patches where we lambasted them for not putting in the required effort every game they play.

 

[ESKIE]

I had an awful night at footy, and I am not talking about the game.
Despite having reserved seats in a supposedly "Carlton members" area we had loads of North supporters sneaking into the seats.
A group of drunk North supporters got past the attendant and sat near us hurling abuse at supporters and the players. Deciding we had had enough we told the attendant to check their tickets and they were asked to leave. This then prompted another lot of abuse aimed at my small group when they stood behind the seating area.
Another North supporter confronted one of us and to add insult to injury the attendant asked us not to swear at them, something we didnt do.
The final straw was 2 Etihad attendants coming down and asked to see our tickets, the innocent victims of abuse being asked to show we had valid tickets.
I have never been so disgusted at not so much the treatment from the moron North supporters but from the incompetent Etihad officials who cant do their jobs properly by checking tickets.
I will seriously re-think joining again next year as I have to wonder why I fork out over $600 for a memberhip only go be surrounded by the opposition supporters.
Anyone else have the same issues with opposition supporters sitting in "our" areas?
I have had enough.

What a crap story Keyza....really slack letting people into the members area like that, I would ring the club and tell them and email as well, as you say you fork out heaps and you shouldn't have to,put up with that. My membership seating is ok at Etihad but at the G we are under cover so quite close to the general standing area and have copped taunts and crap in the past, try to ignore them but a couple of years ago an essendon guy was just trying to pick a fight and antagonising members, he was drunk as well, I went to security and complained, they did nothing just shrugged. Really sorry to hear your experience

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Weirdest post match thread ever.

Wait till the round 23 post match