Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Toump Ass]

Why does anyone even care what the constitution says?
Has anyone here even read it? I haven’t.

Adding some words that say some people that were here before were here before, what actual difference would that make for anyone’s life.

 

[MrSwannee84]

The current Liberal Party couldn't run a chook raffle, they are widely unpopular as is their leader, but somehow they were able to persuade 60% of the population to vote No.

Says it all about how much of a sham it was when safe Labor seats in Adelaide's north were strongly in the No camp.

Shoots down the far left cries of racism when that part of Adelaide is very multicultural.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

 

[Reg Grundy35]

The current Liberal Party couldn't run a chook raffle, they are widely unpopular as is their leader, but somehow they were able to persuade 60% of the population to vote No.

easy when people WANT to be persuaded

 

[Cmarsh]

Why does anyone even care what the constitution says?
Has anyone here even read it? I haven’t.

Saying some people that were here before were here before, what actual difference would that make for anyone’s life.

In reality would be the only group of people with a fairly comprehensive knowledge of the constitution would be constitutional lawyers and academics.

 

[Gibbke]

Even the more reason to engage ..... Dutton was looking for a way to be relevant & Albo accommodated him.

Right here, you could unpack the entire campaign.

They talk about the lack of bipartisanship. They made it a government v opposition battle, when it was always a question beyond that. The Gay marriage debate didn't turn into this, because the dominant battle was between Conservative doom and gloom and a pretty successful anti-dinosaur love is love and why should you care campaign...the difference probably being exactly that, where Gay marriage asked you not to give a **** so you went with "sure why not", and this one told you that you should gaf and then became susceptible to the hidden agenda crap, meaning you might have to do some homework...and if people's first preference is not having to bother, then their second is a good conspiracy theory...

But at the end of the day, Australia has been led along in what was a simple initial question, complicated by the fact that due to it being a constitutional change it had to go to referendum, and then became political fodder. There seriously was only one correct answer to the question - this wasn't an ideology issue, just a structural change affecting only the people who wanted it and for the better, but they managed to turn it into a battle - lies on one side, inability to stick to the topic and a misplaced emotional pitch on the other. As you say, they gave Dutton legitimacy when there was none to be had, and the speech he gave last night underlines what a smug lying campaigner he is...never mind Jacinta Price telling us the Uluru statement didn't advocate an advisory board (what else would a Voice be?) when it is directly stated on that page.

Embarrassing day to be an Aussie.

 

[Engimal v3]

The current Liberal Party couldn't run a chook raffle, they are widely unpopular as is their leader, but somehow they were able to persuade 60% of the population to vote No.

It's like that old (supposed) quote from Lyndon B Johnson on alleging his politcal opponent was a pig ****er: "Of course it ain't true, but I want to make the son-of-a-bitch deny it."

None of what Dutton said had to be true. As soon as Albo had to mention it wasn't a land grab, special privileges, etc., he had lost.

 

[Rotayjay]

I think Lidia Thorpe has completely missed the point.

If the public doesn't have an appetite for the Voice, Treaty is not even in the realms of possibilities.

She's an idiot. She is not the cause of the No result, but she did contribute to an idea that had half a chance failing, in favour of an idea that has **** all chance.

 

[LewisHall]

She's an idiot. She is not the cause of the No result, but she did contribute to an idea that had half a chance failing, in favour of an idea that has * all chance.

I don't think wanting a treaty makes her an idiot.

She has principles and they seem to be good ones.

Maybe she does not gaf what the public thinks. She may even be proven right in the long run

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Says it all about how much of a sham it was when safe Labor seats in Adelaide's north were strongly in the No camp.

Shoots down the far left cries of racism when that part of Adelaide is very multicultural.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

australia has been racist since the first rifle was fired and the first waterhole poisoned. What happened yesterday means that people can no longer simply claim no responsibility for past atrocities.. We've got a brand-spanking new one here. Congratulations.

 

[Engimal v3]

I think Lidia Thorpe has completely missed the point.

If the public doesn't have an appetite for the Voice, Treaty is not even in the realms of possibilities.

There's no chance we have another referendum on Indigenous issues for at least 30 years imo

 

[Stokey]

Says it all about how much of a sham it was when safe Labor seats in Adelaide's north were strongly in the No camp.

Shoots down the far left cries of racism when that part of Adelaide is very multicultural.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

The majority of people were for the Voice at the beginning. Were those that switched racist when they initially were for the Voice?
Seems a bit far fetched to think that people suddenly woke up one morning and decided to be racist.

 

[MarcMaverick]

I don't mind Albo, it was just a hell of an ask of the Australian public during a COL crisis. So easy for the Coalition to sew doubt about it, given it's a genuinely complex issue.

COL also played a key factor in why the Voice failed, it is the hubris of thinking that The Voice was top of peoples priorities when they're perpetually financially on the struggle bus. Should have done The Voice after all of that, COL I mean, was pacified or soothed.

 

[FIGJAM]

The seat of Durack in Northern WA where Aboriginal youth suicide has been so prevalent and such a talking point. A key symbol of Aboriginal disparity.

Result: 73% no.

How does that happen?

One can only assume that there are a greater number of 'racist whites' skewing that result, as the Yes Campaign repeatedly told us that 80% of the indigenous population were voting Yes.

Same must go for Maranoa with 84% No.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

The majority of people were for the Voice at the beginning. Were those that switched racist when they initially were for the Voice?
Seems a bit far fetched to think that people suddenly woke up one morning and decided to be racist.

reverted to type.

 

[dumb]

The denial of this fact is hilarious to watch in real time

The majority of Aboriginals voted No and none of you can admit it

at the end of the day, the voice would still have to get filtered through the largely white number of people in suits pulling the levers, it's not hard to imagine them baulking at that. it seems like a pretty cynical vote.
that would be one of a few reasons.

 

[Toump Ass]

In reality would be the only group of people with a fairly comprehensive knowledge of the constitution would be constitutional lawyers and academics.

Why you change my user name Albert?

It’s Toump ASS.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Did he pick up on it over the last three months? Or just this morning?

Kos has been seeing the data for months.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

COL also played a key factor in why the Voice failed, it is the hubris of thinking that The Voice was top of peoples priorities when they're perpetually financially on the struggle bus. Should have done The Voice after all of that, COL I mean, was pacified or soothed.

it will never be at the top of many people's priorities. Thats evident.

 

[Rotayjay]

She said it should have nothing to do with the constitution because it was written by white people in 1901 without consideration for indigenous people.

And yet Thorpe has used that constitution to stand for Parliament, be elected, and participate in that Parliament, all under a constitution she believes is illegitimate. She's an idiot whose relevance has now passed its best-before date with the referendum over, like Price.

 

[tandino]

COL also played a key factor in why the Voice failed, it is the hubris of thinking that The Voice was top of peoples priorities when they're perpetually financially on the struggle bus. Should have done The Voice after all of that, COL I mean, was pacified or soothed.

If you had to wait for that, you'd be waiting until you're dead.

 

[Stokey]

COL also played a key factor in why the Voice failed, it is the hubris of thinking that The Voice was top of peoples priorities when they're perpetually financially on the struggle bus. Should have done The Voice after all of that, COL I mean, was pacified or soothed.

The Voice probably would have got up if there wasn't compulsory voting.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

There's no chance we have another referendum on Indigenous issues for at least 30 years imo

I think the issue is dead for good. The vote was emphatic and something I did not see coming.

 

[Footy Is The Win]

'racist whites'

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You can make a similar case that Australians don't like politicians, celebrities and big businesses all telling them which way to side on an issue without much more discussion about the issue.

Not much more of a sure thing to turn Aussies off something than to plaster a politician over it.

That's true but on this specific issue, it's quite clear why the electorate voted a certain way. This was a single issue, not complex and with significant historical context so I am extremely cynical of anyone who claimed "there wasn't enough information" or that they voted no as a protest against "the elites".

At least three people I know of directly tried to rationalise their no vote but their actions reveal themselves - one switched the channel during the welcome to country when we were watching the GF, and two others have referred to aboroginal people by racial slurs I won't repeat here. So they can dress it up how they want but the reasons people voted no are quite clear to me especially when they are being cheerled by racist boofheads like Dutton, Credlin, Bolt, Advance Australia, Gina Rhinehart etc etc etc

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Why does anyone even care what the constitution says?
Has anyone here even read it? I haven’t.

Adding some words that say some people that were here before were here before, what actual difference would that make for anyone’s life.

Because many indigenous people don't feel a connection with the 'Australia' that was imposed on them. Recognition through the Constitution was, rightly or wrongly, seen as a way of bringing them in as an integral part of the political and cultural 'whole' of this nation.

It's symbolic of course, but that was the idea. When you think of colonial settlement as an imposition though, obviously ANY Constitutional recognition may seem like surrender. I think this was how people like Lydia Thorpe saw it.

If anything I feel that this absolutely cements the need for a Republic as far as First Nations people are concerned. If Indigenous people can feel a part of a brand new Nation that 'rejects' then 'invades' and finally 'destroys' the old colonial relic the Commonwealth of Australia then so much the better.

They'll be a part of something built from the ground up, rather than have it imposed on them from the top down.