Round 21: Hawthorn vs Port Adelaide - Etihad Stadium

[Boxx]

Fend off? WTF? Gibson didn't even see Wingard coming in late. Ginson was looking at and attackingb the ball while Wingard was running at him late as the picture clearly shows. So just run into a players arms when he has the ball and get a free kick.... you flog. The picture clearly shows Wingard about to run into Gibson , while Gibson was competing the ball and had spoiled the ball.

Did Gibsons arm hit Wingard in the head?

If the answer is yes then it is a free kick for high contact
If the answer is no then play on is the call

It doesnt matter if it was accidental - if his arm hit the head it is a free kick all day every day!!!

 

[Spook]

Did Gibsons arm hit Wingard in the head?

If the answer is yes then it is a free kick for high contact
If the answer is no then play on is the call

It doesnt matter if it was accidental - if his arm hit the head it is a free kick all day every day!!!

No, Wingard ran into Gibson, understand? See photo.

 

[Boxx]

No, Wingard ran into Gibson, understand? See photo.

It actually doesnt make any difference in a marking contest - quite often a the spoiler collects an opposition player in the head and the high contact free is called!!

Now IF Gibson had of taken the mark then your point would be valid, but the fact that he chose to spoil and accidentally hit Wingard high is why the free was awarded.

Its super simple actually... understand??

 

[Freomaniac]

You are embarrassing yourself now. The concept of 'an undeserved flag' is just bullshit made up by jealous opposition supporters. A commonly held belief amongst the followers of teams who are yet to win one ("but WE deserve it, we've got none of our own yet!").

I am stating my opinion plain and simple. You team lost to Port Docklands was half full, go borrow some of Ports bay covers.

 

[Freomaniac]

Reason?

I am not saying Hawthorn "Deserve" anything but I am intrigued how a club does deserve it, can you explain please? To me, who ever wins it deserves it.

More than happy to explain, even The Eagles deserve To win it over the Hawks. Hawks have lost to Port twice, GWS, Essendon, Richmond and Swans. 4 losses against teams not in the 8. Freo has lost to Hawks, Tigers, Eagles, 3 sides in the 8. Eagles losses have been to top 8 sides of Dogs Freo, North and Hawks. Plus the Hawks have been playing like street thugs. That and 99.9 % of hawks fans are arrogant bandwagoners. Freo didnt have a crows 2012 soft draw. They do deserve the minor premiership if they beat North and demons.

 

[Spook]

More than happy to explain, even The Eagles deserve To win it over the Hawks. Hawks have lost to Port twice, GWS, Essendon, Richmond and Swans. 4 losses against teams not in the 8. Freo has lost to Hawks, Tigers, Eagles, 3 sides in the 8. Eagles losses have been to top 8 sides of Dogs Freo, North and Hawks. Plus the Hawks have been playing like street thugs. That and 99.9 % of hawks fans are arrogant bandwagoners. Freo didnt have a crows 2012 soft draw. They do deserve the minor premiership if they beat North and demons.

So even if we beat you and West Coast in H&A and finals, you deserve to win? OK... what ever

 

[Spook]

More than happy to explain, even The Eagles deserve To win it over the Hawks. Hawks have lost to Port twice, GWS, Essendon, Richmond and Swans. 4 losses against teams not in the 8. Freo has lost to Hawks, Tigers, Eagles, 3 sides in the 8. Eagles losses have been to top 8 sides of Dogs Freo, North and Hawks. Plus the Hawks have been playing like street thugs. That and 99.9 % of hawks fans are arrogant bandwagoners. Freo didnt have a crows 2012 soft draw. They do deserve the minor premiership if they beat North and demons.

It is so sad that your team is top of the ladder and has only lost 2 games for the season and you are saying that other teams don't deserve to win the premiership? That is so sad, it's like you don't think Freo can win the flag.
Your team is on top and only lost 2 games FFS, why are you worried and commenting on other teams saying they don't deserve to win the flag... are you expecting to lose? Geez, that is really weird. Is the reason you even think like above because you think your team is not good enough to be the best but you think you deserve to be the best even if your not? You have loser mentality mate.
Why dont you toughen the * up and have some confidence in your team who sitting on top of the ladder. Your team who has twice flogged Geelong in finals in Melbourne & Geelong while they were a great side, your team who has only lost 2 games for the year, why don't you back them? Is it because you are a weak gutless soft utensil? Freo dont need flogs like you on their side, most of their supporters are tough who back them. The are a great club who can win because they are the best and can beat everyone else in finals, not because they lost to (x+y-1) teams to another club during the H&A..... pffft so so soft

Oh and by the way softy, in 1997 & 1998 Adelaide were 13 and 9 after H&A. Did they deserve to win, yes they did..... oh and even though they were 4thand 5th those years, who had the highest percentage, yep that right Adelaide did, and they won and no one has ever questioned that they dint deserve it. So toughen up and back your club to win against anyone.

 

[Gibbke]

More than happy to explain, even The Eagles deserve To win it over the Hawks. Hawks have lost to Port twice, GWS, Essendon, Richmond and Swans. 4 losses against teams not in the 8. Freo has lost to Hawks, Tigers, Eagles, 3 sides in the 8. Eagles losses have been to top 8 sides of Dogs Freo, North and Hawks. Plus the Hawks have been playing like street thugs. That and 99.9 % of hawks fans are arrogant bandwagoners. Freo didnt have a crows 2012 soft draw. They do deserve the minor premiership if they beat North and demons.

But we also belted the crap out of Freo, Footscray and Sydney, and were the better team against WC on their home ground. You can throw in Geelong, Adelaide and North as top 8 contenders we've unceremoniously dumped from premiership credibility, and as long as noone brings up that unsavoury business involving the R team, that's everyone who actually gets to play through September...

I like this feeling of undeservedness though...it's keeping us honest...not sure where you're getting this 99% from, because we're all s**t scared of pissing off Karma and the footy gods...BIG stakes...

 

[hk89]

More than happy to explain, even The Eagles deserve To win it over the Hawks. Hawks have lost to Port twice, GWS, Essendon, Richmond and Swans. 4 losses against teams not in the 8. Freo has lost to Hawks, Tigers, Eagles, 3 sides in the 8. Eagles losses have been to top 8 sides of Dogs Freo, North and Hawks.

So lets get this straight, the team that is current betting favourites, and has beaten the second, third, and fourth favourites in their recent encounters, including complete rogerings in two out of those 3 games - one against your own team - would be undeserved flag winners? You've clearly been hitting the methadone pretty hard. Freo are clearly set to be the worst minor premiers in some time, but if they win the flag they will certainly deserve it - although straight sets would seem more likely given their current form line.

 

[ZingerB]

Fend off? WTF? Gibson didn't even see Wingard coming in late. Ginson was looking at and attackingb the ball while Wingard was running at him late as the picture clearly shows. So just run into a players arms when he has the ball and get a free kick.... you flog. The picture clearly shows Wingard about to run into Gibson , while Gibson was competing the ball and had spoiled the ball.

People clearly seem to be having problems with the idea of an analogy so I will make it very simple. YOU CAN'T HIT PLAYERS HIGH. FULL STOP. THE END. Wingard is allowed to contest the ball. He was running at the ball, not at Gibson, because if he was running at Gibson he would have bounced off him. It doesn't matter that it was an accident. Gibson's right forearm coat hangered him. All the Victorian commentators agreed. Every neutral supporter was laughing at the Hawthorn flogs complaining about it a few pages back. What part of you can't hit a guy high don't you understand?

 

[SA HAWK]

More than happy to explain, even The Eagles deserve To win it over the Hawks. Hawks have lost to Port twice, GWS, Essendon, Richmond and Swans. 4 losses against teams not in the 8. Freo has lost to Hawks, Tigers, Eagles, 3 sides in the 8. Eagles losses have been to top 8 sides of Dogs Freo, North and Hawks. Plus the Hawks have been playing like street thugs. That and 99.9 % of hawks fans are arrogant bandwagoners. Freo didnt have a crows 2012 soft draw. They do deserve the minor premiership if they beat North and demons.

I reckon you are shitting yourself that you might not win it.

 

[SA HAWK]

People clearly seem to be having problems with the idea of an analogy so I will make it very simple. YOU CAN'T HIT PLAYERS HIGH. FULL STOP. THE END. Wingard is allowed to contest the ball. He was running at the ball, not at Gibson, because if he was running at Gibson he would have bounced off him. It doesn't matter that it was an accident. Gibson's right forearm coat hangered him. All the Victorian commentators agreed. Every neutral supporter was laughing at the Hawthorn flogs complaining about it a few pages back. What part of you can't hit a guy high don't you understand?

It was an accident but yes the free was there.

Happy?

 

[ZingerB]

It was an accident but yes the free was there.

Happy?

Not really. I don't understand how the only thing your supporters can take away from that umpiring display is that Gibbo was unlucky.

 

[JoondalupJ]

You seem to think that using caps makes your argument more valid. I don't actually understand how you are arguing a high hit is not a free kick. Of all the stinkers last night that wasn't one of them. There is no accidental rule ... if you hit someone high it is a free end of story. All they need to do is officiate consistently which they never do and did not do last night. So unless you are trying to say that the umpires were terrible almost exclusively in favour of your team then I don't understand what you are banging on about. You keep on saying it is not about individual decisions but you seem to keep on wanting to talk about the Gibbo free kick which is the bloody point. If you get 10 bad decisions in your favour, and 1 against I don't want to hear about the one against. If you want to talk about umpiring standards in general maybe don't pick out a clear free kick to make your point.

Mate my CAPS I apologise for , some times I use them when I want to emphasise something , but generally its my incompetence on the key board , I type too fast and I hit the wrong keys, and I 'm not the best typer around. So sorry.
I never said once that the umpires were so terrible exclusively against my team , at all. Once again your team gave us a belting.

Now once more I'll try to explain to you what I'm saying.
Here we go. Every week in nearly every game you will see these things happen that shouldn't happen. For instance just to remind you of an example , I'm talking about Gibbo's free against. It should not have been , not because it was Josh Gibson , but because it should not have been a free. I've explained to you why before so I'm not going over it again , you defend or you sit and watch. You understand that right?

Now the umpires are brilliant in their rigid following of the head high thing, but they are also inconsistent to the degree of massive frustration for fans and followers , they also follow their instructions to a tee.
They follow their training and the rules to an absolute umpteenth degree, where by they allow frees against players that are accidents or incidentals. You say that there is no ruling for accidents, well there should be a ruling, and discretion, and if there is, then, NO umpire seems to use their discretion, you see where I'm aiming here?
Listen to this point please I believe what I'm saying effects every team in the league at some stage and here is why.

If a player commits to defend fairly and legally and because his arm or hand or any part of his body is a millimetre above the shoulder, an umpire that knows how to read the game should not be penalising , it should be a half and half a ball up!

OK now having said that,of course there are "FREE KICKS" that are legitimate. What I am pointing out that nearly every game I watch I see what I call an Umpires goal from a free.

Now take into account a player trying his damnedest to defend, gets called out for what appears a basketball foul to the watchers and then proceeds to get very frustrated and angry because he is trying to ply his trade, then our little colourful adjudicators run them into the goal square for a fifty metre penalty. IT HAPPENS EVERY WEEK. There's a little capitol for you. Yes every team cops this crap , even your boys . IT IS UNFAIR!!!!!!!

Do you understand my point now , please I'm not being a smartarse , I see friends and others watching games where unfair frees , CREATED BY THE RULES PEOPLE , not by the umpires, take the game to another level of anger and frustration in the poor people who watch the game and pay the money.

I am talking in general about the subtle little changes in the outlook of a rule because of political correctness in the AFL , needing to change the safety issues.

This is about the Australian Rules Ethic, of the spirit of the game, which is a high contact collision sport.

Now don't jump on me because you think I don't care about blokes getting squashed between an opponent and a point post. I hate seeing bad injuries.

I am telling you at least once a game , and I mean at least.... once a game, a goal is scored because of umpire over adjudication , because they are instructed to watch the head before anything else is even considered, an accident is an accident , an incidental touch is not a foull and does not need a free kick, and yet sometimes you see a free and its not called. How inconsistent can the AFL powers be , they have a dogmatic rules set up that can be interpreted any way an umpire sees fit , and , the umpire as we've witnessed and heard over the weekend in two different games say "I didn't see it" well that's OK , but why pay anything but a ball up if the umpire isn't even sure. They do pay frees and wind up in many cases having 50 metres dealt out because a player is angry in the heat of battle.

Hodgey probably get fined or a bit of time. Gibbo , it should have been a ball up. by the way Gibbo or Burgoyne got a good shirt front there at one stage knocked him flat , it was a ripper shepherd, if he was hit a millimere higher , your boy who ever it was was gone .

Thank heavens the bleeding umpires didn't see that, as a head high. When the game loses that we ar all finished as is our game.

I am a staunch believer that the major over haul needed in Australian Rules Football, is an over haul of the complete and absolute AFL administration.

I think Gillon is just another puppet.

If you have a comment , lets do it sensibly I'm not fighting with you about Port , they kicked our arse, but have a look at the big picture, last year a free or two stuffed your blokes in the prelim, well that happens to the other clubs on given weeks every week. That is why footy is so bloody confusing and why we are having this ridiculous conversation.

We are supposed to be entertained , not brawling over grey rules.

 

[JoondalupJ]

It was an accident but yes the free was there.

Happy?

No it shouldn't have been a free. The rule needs looking at. But I get your drift brother.

 

[JoondalupJ]

You mean the team we beat in Perth 2 weeks ago? Oh ok, that team.

Ps I am from 'interstate' as well. I think it's really sad that you have an inferiority complex and have to keep making it about a states when it is just about clubs and teams...... One day you might grow up and be happy with your identity.

Can't wait for that top happen. When the West realises people in other sates actually like them. Me if Dockers and WCE play off this year I won't be peed off because its a WA GF, I'll be seriously pissed because may marvelous Hawks won't be there. But I'd feel the same if I came from Oonagallarbi East in far north QLD , IF THERES SUCH A PLACE?
Groppers, its a team thing, a club thing, a tribal thing. Its Australian Rules!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Freomaniac]

I reckon you are shitting yourself that you might not win it.

Your part right. I am gutted we lost to North fairly. Considering were don't score well, we got injured forwards at the worst possible time.

 

[Freomaniac]

So lets get this straight, the team that is current betting favourites, and has beaten the second, third, and fourth favourites in their recent encounters, including complete rogerings in two out of those 3 games - one against your own team - would be undeserved flag winners? You've clearly been hitting the methadone pretty hard. Freo are clearly set to be the worst minor premiers in some time, but if they win the flag they will certainly deserve it - although straight sets would seem more likely given their current form line.

Freo are stuffed now. Getting injuries at the worst possible time. Hawks have no injuries. Hawks will be given the 2015 flag in a silver platter. Enjoy.

 

[Freomaniac]

So even if we beat you and West Coast in H&A and finals, you deserve to win? OK... what ever

Hence why I like the EPL. You face each side twice and you are rewarded for finishing top. My only criticism othe EPL, is there should be a salary cap. There is in the A-league and American league.

 

[hk89]

Hence why I like the EPL. You face each side twice and you are rewarded for finishing top. My only criticism othe EPL, is there should be a salary cap. There is in the A-league and American league.

Yes, even if you don't eliminate finals, playing everyone twice would be a big improvement. Would have to cull most of the victorian teams before something like that became possible though. AFL should perhaps have pushed harder for relocations when expanding to two teams in each state.

 

[Freomaniac]

Yes, even if you don't eliminate finals, playing everyone twice would be a big improvement. Would have to cull most of the victorian teams before something like that became possible though. AFL should perhaps have pushed harder for relocations when expanding to two teams in each state.

don't need to cull the teams, in a few years time, the AFL will own some stadiums starting with docklands.

 

[hk89]

don't need to cull the teams, in a few years time, the AFL will own some stadiums starting with docklands.

Well if you don't cull the teams it marks it pretty hard to have all teams playing each other twice with the current number of teams. Seasons that long can work in other sports, but with a collision sport like AFL I doubt they'd be sustainable.

 

[CobberRodgers]

Did Gibsons arm hit Wingard in the head?

If the answer is yes then it is a free kick for high contact
If the answer is no then play on is the call

It doesnt matter if it was accidental - if his arm hit the head it is a free kick all day every day!!!

So the next time someone takes a hanger and their leg touches the guys head he is jumping on, even though he takes the mark, it's a free kick for high contact.

 

[Freomaniac]

Well if you don't cull the teams it marks it pretty hard to have all teams playing each other twice with the current number of teams. Seasons that long can work in other sports, but with a collision sport like AFL I doubt they'd be sustainable.

NBA season has 30 teams and each side play 82 games in 6 months or 3-4 games a week. Its sustainable due to the USA having 300 million.

 

[Gibbke]

It's also basketball. You can play 80 games of basketball, or 160 games of baseball in a season, but you couldn't do that with our game. Best to compare it with gridiron, where thay only play 16...

If you extended that AFL season to full h&a with 18 teams, a 34 round season would see teams experience massive lulls which could arguably lessen the integrity of the comp, to the extent that people call for a return to the "good old days" and the shorter season. Depth and player phyical demands might see instances such as Freo sending East Perth over to Launceston as a regular occurance, rather than the odd one off...do we really want that...?