Stats in - our injury run horrific vs rest of Comp

[dirts]

Let's also not forget that Swan played, but was obviously injured from very early on and isn't in those missed game totals. If you consider how badly we have been hit, we get a good run next year and with Freeman, Shazza, Broomy and Grindog another preseason advanced pushing upward as well - we could really do something quickly.

But alas - had the same optimism this year as well. Good injury year and we are Top 4 material - no doubt.

 

[jonbe54]

Knightmare has raised injury prevention as an area we should be better at. What about our rehabilitation practices - are we the absolute best at this, using the best availabable to ensure players rehab correctly? We have the facilities but are our physio practices the best they can be?

I am staggered at the number of injuries we have had three years running. It beggars belief.

I'm not a great one for attacking the club without any hard evidence or inside knowlege Vicky but the circumstances are VERY peculiar and are ONGOING and have been so for 3 years now. It has almost certainly cost us a flag in that period and a full investigation into the physical science departments within the club is seemingly justified and probably overdue.

 

[ottoman]

Ok, so injuries are just a case of bad luck. I can live with this. What bewilders me is the recovery time at Collingwood when a player does get injured. How many times this year has a player been out for just one week. Langdon with concussion and other than that I can't remember any one else. Elliott comes off the ground with tightness and 'tightness' becomes a 3 week injury. No need to mention the Freeman and Reid debacles.
Something doesn't seem right. And the fact that the club can get the approx return date for a player so wrong also suggests there is some incompetence within the club.

 

[jonbe54]

Ok, so injuries are just a case of bad luck. I can live with this. What bewilders me is the recovery time at Collingwood when a player does get injured. How many times this year has a player been out for just one week. Langdon with concussion and other than that I can't remember any one else. Elliott comes off the ground with tightness and 'tightness' becomes a 3 week injury. No need to mention the Freeman and Reid debacles.
Something doesn't seem right. And the fact that the club can get the approx return date for a player so wrong also suggests there is some incompetence within the club.

Doubt it's total incompetence, more likely corporate dominated bullshit - an increasingly dominant factor in our sport and many others.

Give no competitors any whiff of information that you can possibly help and deny weakness or misfortune publicly at any cost!

 

[Stripes B and W]

Ok, so injuries are just a case of bad luck. I can live with this. What bewilders me is the recovery time at Collingwood when a player does get injured. How many times this year has a player been out for just one week. Langdon with concussion and other than that I can't remember any one else. Elliott comes off the ground with tightness and 'tightness' becomes a 3 week injury. No need to mention the Freeman and Reid debacles.
Something doesn't seem right. And the fact that the club can get the approx return date for a player so wrong also suggests there is some incompetence within the club.

Otto, for me it the re injury that concerns me most. The games missed versus what we state is simply us playing games. Elliot was always going to miss 3 games because he had a slight tear etc etc

The real concern is when players miss further weeks with the same injury. This suggest the rehab has been mis managed, something much more in our control. Reid, Beams, Sinclair. Karnezis,\immendiately come to mind.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Ok, so injuries are just a case of bad luck. I can live with this. What bewilders me is the recovery time at Collingwood when a player does get injured. How many times this year has a player been out for just one week. Langdon with concussion and other than that I can't remember any one else. Elliott comes off the ground with tightness and 'tightness' becomes a 3 week injury. No need to mention the Freeman and Reid debacles.
Something doesn't seem right. And the fact that the club can get the approx return date for a player so wrong also suggests there is some incompetence within the club.

I still think the altitude tank is the problem. Something not right about blood cells being messed wth so much.
I think perhaps the occasional bump from this is ok, but sustained use seems to be playing havoc with the players muscle systems and is manifesting in injuries and poor recovery time.

 

[doodles98]

Knightmare has raised injury prevention as an area we should be better at. What about our rehabilitation practices - are we the absolute best at this, using the best availabable to ensure players rehab correctly? We have the facilities but are our physio practices the best they can be?

I am staggered at the number of injuries we have had three years running. It beggars belief.

I am staggered at the number of pre-season and training injuries we've had. For me this has been by far the worst part of it. I can cop in-game injuries. Training and pre-season is supposed to prepare players for matches... not put them out with injuries. I've never seen or heard of a club manage this feat the way we have the last 3 years.

 

[Vicky Park]

I still think the altitude tank is the problem. Something not right about blood cells being messed wth so much.
I think perhaps the occasional bump from this is ok, but sustained use seems to be playing havoc with the players muscle systems and is manifesting in injuries and poor recovery time.

Not sure about the science there BBB?

 

[dubber]

Not sure about the science there BBB?

There is none

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Not sure about the science there BBB?

Problems of Altitude Exposure


However, acclimatisation to high altitude is not simple, and there are a number of other effects that could cancel out the above benefits. For example the increase in red blood cells comes at a cost - having too many blood cells makes the blood thicker and can make blood flow sluggish. This makes it harder for your heart to pump round the body, and can actually decrease the amount of oxygen getting to where it is needed.

At very high altitudes (>5000m), weight loss is unavoidable because your body actually consumes your muscles in order to provide energy. There is even a risk that the body’s immune system will become weakened, leading to an increased risk of infections, and there may be adverse changes in the chemical make-up of the muscles. Additionally, the body cannot exercise as intensely at altitude. This results in reduced training intensity, which can reduce performance in some sports. At very high altitudes, further problems are encountered: loss of appetite, inhibition of muscle repair processes and excessive work of breathing. On top of this, there is the problem of altitude illnesses, which can dramatically reduce the capacity to be active at altitude, or foreshorten the exposure to high altitude altogether.

 

[Collingwood pro]

Problems of Altitude Exposure


However, acclimatisation to high altitude is not simple, and there are a number of other effects that could cancel out the above benefits. For example the increase in red blood cells comes at a cost - having too many blood cells makes the blood thicker and can make blood flow sluggish. This makes it harder for your heart to pump round the body, and can actually decrease the amount of oxygen getting to where it is needed.

At very high altitudes (>5000m), weight loss is unavoidable because your body actually consumes your muscles in order to provide energy. There is even a risk that the body’s immune system will become weakened, leading to an increased risk of infections, and there may be adverse changes in the chemical make-up of the muscles. Additionally, the body cannot exercise as intensely at altitude. This results in reduced training intensity, which can reduce performance in some sports. At very high altitudes, further problems are encountered: loss of appetite, inhibition of muscle repair processes and excessive work of breathing. On top of this, there is the problem of altitude illnesses, which can dramatically reduce the capacity to be active at altitude, or foreshorten the exposure to high altitude altogether.

From my knowledge high altitude training increases the bodies ability to move oxygen around the body. This is due to the decreased amount of oxygen in higher altitudes meaning the body has to compensate by increasing the efficiency of the breathing and the movement of oxygen such as more blood cells as you said but the higher blood volume pumped per heart rate means more oxygen in the body and the muscles are able to perform at a higher level. Also the higher your Stroke volume the less the heart rate needs to be at the same level for for a lower stroke volume. Eg increased SV means better physical output and essentially a longer life since the heart is less worn out.
SV X HR = Q
Which is better
7.5ml X 80 = cardiac output of 600ml of blood pumped per minute
5ml x 80 = 400ml
(Just a quick calculation not actual volumes)

Your muscle mass is only consumed if the person is trying to lose weight or not eating enough to cover the exercise and the higher needs from the higher altitude.
When you get cold your immune system decreases and increases the chance of infection. Due to the fact that at Altitude the temperature is usually lower this would account for that.

 

[jmac70]

I don't know who is to blame for our injuries, if anyone. I do know that we are being constantly assured by the club that we have the best facilities. As fans all we can do is look at the injury list and that is not reflective of having the best fitness department. The coach himself has admitted that some of the injuries were caused by our own mismanagement. This is simply not good enough for such a well resourced club. There needs to be an in-depth review of the methods of the fitness department and if required there needs to be staff changes. Since Bucks became coach we have had nothing but serious injuries and we are all getting sick of it.

 

[jonbe54]

I don't know who is to blame for our injuries, if anyone. I do know that we are being constantly assured by the club that we have the best facilities. As fans all we can do is look at the injury list and that is not reflective of having the best fitness department. The coach himself has admitted that some of the injuries were caused by our own mismanagement. This is simply not good enough for such a well resourced club. There needs to be an in-depth review of the methods of the fitness department and if required there needs to be staff changes. Since Bucks became coach we have had nothing but serious injuries and we are all getting sick of it.

Goes back to beyond Bucks start jmac '11 was a bad year as well and that was under old father time.

 

[PieNSauce]

/Board

Pretty much what those without their heads in the sand have been thinking for a while.
But hey, let's sack Bucks anyway!

 

[PepperFace]

Sinclair is a liability down back. His kicking may have improved but its still below average.....we need to move on from these guys if we are serious.
god I hope scharenberg comes good!

 

[jonbe54]

General consensus seems to be that there is something rotten in the Physical sciences departments but instead of going through the joint like a dose of salts perhaps it would be constructive to attempt to find causes - otherwise we may simply be moving the deckchairs while the Titanic sinks

Let us not forget that our whole interior structure as an organization was geared to having Mick as Director of coaching, since he spat the dummy we have had mass movements out of the club of many positions from Eade taking over Mick's proposed role and the replacement of our head fitness guru to the defection or poaching by other clubs of many of our 'junior' coaching staff.

Without pointing the finger at any individual it seems plain that somewhere along the line responsibilities were shirked, disregarded or simply forgotten. This seems unlikely at first glance but with the complete uprooting of much of our support staff its possible to theorise that we didn't have a good enough program in place to manage such a huge transition of staff, let alone playing personel.

I'm not going to jump up and down as some might and reprimand the club or individuals but perhaps its time for a more accountable oversight of the internal workings and performance of the physical sciences personel, someone reporting directly to Bucks and the board.

That's not to say that we should create another position, I would be comfortable with someone's current role being redefined, perhaps someone on Eade's staff would be effective as that would most likely be in the correct chain of responsibility.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Snoop Dog why no Seedsman in that list of defenders? He missed the first 9 and with the hit we've taken on skills this year losing him for that long kills you...

nah he should be in for sure. best ball user at club

 

[shizzle]

Our current rehab coordinator took up his position at the end of 2011, during his tenure the management of injuries has been the worst I can remember.

 

[rose jam]

We can't cope with the injuries because we don't have enough natural forwards who are able to the flow of the ball moving, meaning the depth players have to do more than they're capable of. Hawthorn have coped all year because Gunston, Bruest, Roughhead, Puopolo have been there all year and are able to ensure the flow of goals remains, meaning the midfield and backs don't need to do as much.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Our two biggest problems this year have been injuries, and ball use. Both need to improve drastically next year.

 

[mattys123]

Our two biggest problems this year have been injuries, and ball use. Both need to improve drastically next year.

Are the two mutually exclusive though? I'd say no.

Reid (hasn't played a game) - One of our best kicks, whether it be up forward or down back.
Scharenberg (0 games) - Was known as a good kick as junior level, smart player.
Fasolo (7 games) - Easily one of our best ball users.
Seedsman (7 games) - Also one of our best ball users.

If those 4 players had of been injury free I think our disposal efficiency improves dramatically. Then you add Kennedy and Broomhead who both use the ball well too, but aren't quite there yet age wise and you have an improvement in DE.

I still think our biggest issue is just what this thread is talking about, we have the talent on our list to improve on field, we just need to get our players on the bloody field.

 

[good4footy]

Are the two mutually exclusive though? I'd say no.

Reid (hasn't played a game) - One of our best kicks, whether it be up forward or down back.
Scharenberg (0 games) - Was known as a good kick as junior level, smart player.
Fasolo (7 games) - Easily one of our best ball users.
Seedsman (7 games) - Also one of our best ball users.

If those 4 players had of been injury free I think our disposal efficiency improves dramatically. Then you add Kennedy and Broomhead who both use the ball well too, but aren't quite there yet age wise and you have an improvement in DE.

I still think our biggest issue is just what this thread is talking about, we have the talent on our list to improve on field, we just need to get our players on the bloody field.

Agree M123. In addition with a long injury list you constantly have players coming into the side taking 2-3 weeks to get going. During this period fatigue can cause poor decision making and skill errors. So it not just about the skilled players missing but on return the time it takes to get to somewhere 100% match fitness wise.

Those that have medium skills as it is, coming back and fatiguing effects their skills even further.

 

[cleomenes]

I know it is nice to have someone to blame for problems, but really the fitness staff do not cause injuries. The spate of ACL's and hamstrings in particular cannot be sheeted home to anyone.
The staff are responsible for the management of injuries, and you have to say they have been very conservative with everyone bar Swan since the Beams quad. i can't find any evidence that they have been bringing back people too soon, or over training anyone. We have just had a bad run, in particular with our better kicks and our backs. We just have to wear it, and look for the better times.
Those who mention 2011 need to remember that the injuries that year were almost all in the last bit of the year, were compounded by discipline infractions, and made doubly important in the grand final because we played two injured players. (Reid and Jolley) : in doing this, Malthouse was probably taking the same gamble that Matthews successfully managed with Brisbane in our second GF loss to them. He lost his gamble.
There is no injury conspiracy.

 

[domin8tors]

This was after Beams' management last year which indicates to me this is also a case of incompetence mixed with bad luck down at the Westpac centre.

The Reid and Freeman injuries this year have been a disaster of epic proportions, there should be actions taken offseason.

David butters was at Collingwood last year and the previous 10 and we had no such injury issues. so to suggest incompetence would be highly incorrect

 

[Snoop Dog]

Are the two mutually exclusive though? I'd say no.

Reid (hasn't played a game) - One of our best kicks, whether it be up forward or down back.
Scharenberg (0 games) - Was known as a good kick as junior level, smart player.
Fasolo (7 games) - Easily one of our best ball users.
Seedsman (7 games) - Also one of our best ball users.

If those 4 players had of been injury free I think our disposal efficiency improves dramatically. Then you add Kennedy and Broomhead who both use the ball well too, but aren't quite there yet age wise and you have an improvement in DE.

I still think our biggest issue is just what this thread is talking about, we have the talent on our list to improve on field, we just need to get our players on the bloody field.

I agree with that Matty

If you think start of the year then they were desperate for Williams to be there for his run as well as Sinclair. Williams kicking through pre season had been very good and generally been improving. he will never be a Hibberd but close. Seedsman was the other they wanted there and he was MIA for a long time. He is the best ball user at the club and Fasolo isnt far behind him. I'm willing to bet Buckley wants a fit Fasolo in the side and given they trained off HB again reasonable to suggest he was thereabouts in the 22.

When Brown went down I have no doubt if Reid had of been fit he would have been pushed back and his kicking is v good as well out of the back half.

Schareberg is the left fielder. I'm pretty sure he would have been in. He is better than Kade K from the Suns and look at what he has done for them off HB. YOu cant assume it but he would have been pretty handy as well.

The other thing with kicking is just having a sense of where your team mates are at and if you are constantly changing your side that familiarity isnt there. Being able to predict what teammates are doing and their running patterns is significant.