Stats in - our injury run horrific vs rest of Comp

[Snoop Dog]

Okay well I have been pretty quiet on the board these last few weeks because I've been expecting this. Since the bye when we lost to Crows (they'd been beaten by Dees the game before) I've felt we just haven't shown much bar the WCE game (which to be fair was exceptional).

I'm a big believer that injuries DO matter and whilst we get the rhetoric from coaches they don't......I can't tell you they know very well they matter. I've also held the view that our best 22 has been decimated this year. For example I reckon this was the 22 Bucks would have liked out there if all fit and firing at Rd 1;

B Williams, Brown, Sinclair
HB Toovey, Frost, Maxwell
C Young, Pendlebury, Lumumba
HF Beams, Reid, White
F Elliott, Cloke, Goldsack
Foll Witts, Swan, Ball
Int - Seedsman, Sidebottom, Caf, Fasolo (could argue Adams or Blair for last spot)

I then went through each round and figured out how many games players from this group have missed for the year and depending on your view of who gets that last spot its between 78 and 86 (add Freeman and Scharenburg and you can do the math). The main contributors to that number were;

Reid - 16
Brown - 14
Sinclair - 14
Fasolo - 9
Williams - 7
Maxwell - 6

The remarkable observation is that 4, 5 of those 6 were our starting back 6. Given Fas form in back half when he did play you could almost argue bar Toovey its our best back 6.

Then I think to myself is that a big or small number? So I go and do it for the other top 10 or so clubs. I got their best 22 at start of year and this is how many games that group has missed for the year;

Hawthorn - 68 (and to be fair they were all very good players)
Richmond - 60 (Maric 9, Astbury 8, Grigg & Thomas 6 and Jackson, Newman and Rance 5)
Carlton 57 - (Kruze 15, Judd 11, Curnow & Carazzo 7 and Docherty 6)
Adelaide - 56 (Van Berlo 16, Crouch 11, Otten 9 and Tex 7)
Swans - 52 (Johnson who is borderline best 22 was 16 and then Tippett 11, Goodes 5)
North - 50 (McMillan 13 and Wells 11 and Swallow 7)
Fremantle - 44 (Walters 13, De Boer 7 and McPharlin 6)
Suns - 43 (Bock 16, bennell 7 and Smith 7)
Geelong - 38 (Christensen 12, Caddy 8 and Motlop 6)
Port - 29 (Monfries 6 and Carlile 4)
Essendon 25 - hmmmm interesting but best say nothing but unless you knew better you'd wonder what they were on ....just joking! (watson 5 and Dempsey 4)

People will argue the best 22 but I think this gives you a thematic at the very least.

Anyway clearly our best 22 has been hit much harder than any other club.....much harder and the injuries have been concentrated in areas which are crucial to success. Reid was critical to our '14 fwd plans and who Buckley would have hoped would have eased the attention Cloke gets.

For those who think Bucks should go I think thats pretty unfair because he has one hand effectively tied behind his back. He has had to play kids he probably thought would be in VFL for most of the year. And whats worse the injuries haven't abated so the kids are now getting tired. It must be a real challenge in there. What he could be accused of is over training players bc so many of the injuries have been soft tissue related which could be about over training etc. Whats worse is I reckon if I did this for last 3 years it would be about the same....and thats what we should be angry about and what the Board should be looking into. Have a look at Port. This is the 2nd year running they haven't had injuries and they've been flying. Take out Johnson from the Swans and you get to 36 which is a great result so clearly they are doing something right as well. Essendon result is amazing and same with Suns if you remove Bock who they'd probably written off. I am going to do some correlations but its pretty evident if you have a ripping injury free run it goes a long way to success and as we've found out so to the opposite.

I am super excited about what our best 22 can achieve but to be honest I have no confidence we know how to get our best 22 playing most of the year. Thats what I am angry about. If we were able to field this side in 2014 I reckon we'd have have a real chance;


B Williams, Brown, Sinclair
HB Langdon, Frost, Toovey
C Sidebottom, Pendlebury, Seedsman
HF White, Reid, Elliott
F Goldsack, Cloke, Kennedy
Foll Witts, Beams, Ball
Int Caf, Lumumba, Adams, Fasolo / YOung

For me the biggest issue for us next year is who is the 'general' of the back half (Brown?) and whether a few of the kids can progress (Freeman, Scharenburg, Kennedy, Thomas, Adams, Langdon etc)

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

This was after Beams' management last year which indicates to me this is also a case of incompetence mixed with bad luck down at the Westpac centre.

The Reid and Freeman injuries this year have been a disaster of epic proportions, there should be actions taken offseason.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Sinclair is a great depth option, but he wouldnt be best 22, the kicking coming from that backline is a worry too.
Id chuck Keeffe down there to play on the 3rd talls/resting ruckman while Frost and Brown play on the KPF's, would guve him less to stress about and more chance to rebound like we know he can with his skill set.

Id also try fit Scharenberg in the backline somehow, because he has a good leg on him and is another intercept player like Langdon, and you would expect similar performances to what langdon does.


I agree though, we have had a shocker with injuries.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Sinclair is a great depth option, but he wouldnt be best 22, the kicking coming from that backline is a worry too.
Id chuck Keeffe down there to play on the 3rd talls/resting ruckman while Frost and Brown play on the KPF's, would guve him less to stress about and more chance to rebound like we know he can with his skill set.

Id also try fit Scharenberg in the backline somehow, because he has a good leg on him and is another intercept player like Langdon, and you would expect similar performances to what langdon does.


I agree though, we have had a shocker with injuries.

 

[cleomenes]

This is a stark reminder of why our fortunes are not what we would like. I am not one who correlates coaching with injuries. I see injuries as bad luck that just has to be coped with, except in the cases where an injured player is returned to the field when his injury is observed. (doesn't happen much these days).
Some players are injury prone, and some are nearly bulletproof. you just have to accept this, and realise that the injury prone ones are not always obvious at recruitment time.
We just have to hope that the wheel will turn and we get a good injury year at the same time as we have a good list. (2010). When that happens, we have a chance at a flag again.

 

[mattys123]

Surely we need a complete overhaul of our fitness department, from training methods to equipment used to personnel who are employed.

We have more money than anyone else, it's time to spend it, go poach the fitness guy from the Seattle Seahawks, or Real Madrid, or something like that, pay him an absolute s**t load of money and get this thing fixed ASAP.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

3 years in a row

 

[MAGPIE2013]

Surely we need a complete overhaul of our fitness department, from training methods to equipment used to personnel who are employed.

We have more money than anyone else, it's time to spend it, go poach the fitness guy from the Seattle Seahawks, or Real Madrid, or something like that, pay him an absolute s**t load of money and get this thing fixed ASAP.

i reckon we should get the entire seattle seahawks secondary and stick em in our backline. Nobody will score with them in the backline

 

[jonbe54]

As pleasedont says it is not only this year but 3 SOLID SEASONS OF NUMEROUS SERIOUS INJURIES.

The biggest share seems to be the backline.

But you can't tell the absolutists . . . "injuries are to be coped with" they chant.

Sure they are - up to a point, but we have gone beyond that point every year for the last three.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Surely we need a complete overhaul of our fitness department, from training methods to equipment used to personnel who are employed.

We have more money than anyone else, it's time to spend it, go poach the fitness guy from the Seattle Seahawks, or Real Madrid, or something like that, pay him an absolute s**t load of money and get this thing fixed ASAP.

If I was on the CFC Board thats what I would be absolutely focussed on and frankly getting Eddie more focussed on that the northern state academies.

Its been 3 years. Dale Thomas, Luke Ball, Darren Jolly, Dayne Beams, Nick Maxwell, Ben Reid, Nathan Brown to name a few have spent a lot of time absent over the last 3 years.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Sinclair is a great depth option, but he wouldnt be best 22, the kicking coming from that backline is a worry too.
Id chuck Keeffe down there to play on the 3rd talls/resting ruckman while Frost and Brown play on the KPF's, would guve him less to stress about and more chance to rebound like we know he can with his skill set.

Id also try fit Scharenberg in the backline somehow, because he has a good leg on him and is another intercept player like Langdon, and you would expect similar performances to what langdon does.


I agree though, we have had a shocker with injuries.

He certainly was at start of year. Buckley was very open about using his speed from back half. His decision making improved a lot last year and up and running there is a spot for him. Granted his kicking had been an issue but it had improved a lot.

I don't want to see Scharenberg as anything more than a nice surprise next year. He won't be the difference.

 

[TradeDraft]

Surely we need a complete overhaul of our fitness department, from training methods to equipment used to personnel who are employed.

We have more money than anyone else, it's time to spend it, go poach the fitness guy from the Seattle Seahawks, or Real Madrid, or something like that, pay him an absolute s**t load of money and get this thing fixed ASAP.

You have to think of that.

This more the a Coincident that is has happened more then just 1 season.

• Are we training too hard or not enough?
• The High Attitude having a Bad in Fact
• Butters Stuff the Players up or is it Donvaon?

It does need a very good look at.

Port did a very good job with getting Burguess

 

[SuperSub17]

Before people jump up and down at Buckley training them too hard, I will point out that in 2011 we had a similarly cruel run with injuries.

Stats just go to show how handicapped we have been all year really. One of our best 5 players hasn't played a game.

 

[TradeDraft]

Before people jump up and down at Buckley training them too hard, I will point out that in 2011 we had a similarly cruel run with injuries.

Stats just go to show how handicapped we have been all year really. One of our best 5 players hasn't played a game.

Then what is the Difference between 2011 and 2014?

2011 we where the Most Dominate team for 3 QTRs of the season

 

[THATSGOLD]

Our round 1 team is nearly the same as what got smashed against Essendon.

 

[SuperSub17]

Then what is the Difference between 2011 and 2014?

2011 we where the Most Dominate team for 3 QTRs of the season

Because the personnel is entirely different.

From 2007 to 2009 we were the definition of pretenders. Had some good games against top sides and lost some shockers to crap sides. We were crying out for an inside mid and were also in desperate need of a ruckman. Then when we got Ball and Jolly in late 2009 we sprung up the ladder.

Now in 2014 Jolly is gone and we have two young rucks. The other area that we targeted at the time (the midfield) is also not as strong. In 2010-11 we had Swan absolutely dominant (winning a Brownlow and nearly another), Pendlebury playing very well (winning Norm Smith and polling 20 brownlow votes), Ball playing his role and Beams developing.

In 2014 Swan has been injured all year, Beams started well but has been quiet for 6 weeks (incidentally the same time as our form slump) and Ball has also dropped off. Net result = we fall back to 2007-08-09 levels.

 

[TradeDraft]

Because the personnel is entirely different.

From 2007 to 2009 we were the definition of pretenders. Had some good games against top sides and lost some shockers to crap sides. We were crying out for an inside mid and were also in desperate need of a ruckman. Then when we got Ball and Jolly in late 2009 we sprung up the ladder.

Now in 2014 Jolly is gone and we have two young rucks. The other area that we targeted at the time (the midfield) is also not as strong. In 2010-11 we had Swan absolutely dominant (winning a Brownlow and nearly another), Pendlebury playing very well (winning Norm Smith and polling 20 brownlow votes), Ball playing his role and Beams developing.

In 2014 Swan has been injured all year, Beams started well but has been quiet for 6 weeks (incidentally the same time as our form slump) and Ball has also dropped off. Net result = we fall back to 2007-08-09 levels.

So between 2007 to 2009 we are what North are at the Moment?

Guess the Injuries and Loss of Form to out Main Mids have really hurt the Side and we have not really dominated the Midfield yet this season

 

[ThisIsJake]

Very well thought out post and i very much agree with the second part of your conclusion. We need young mids to step up and avoid injuries because right now we have just 3 Mids that would crack it in other competing teams. Pendles, Beams and Sidey.

I'm sure their will be some significant changes too our preseason training loads/player management next year to get our youngsters on the park.

 

[TradeDraft]

Very well thought out post and i very much agree with the second part of your conclusion. We need young mids to step up and avoid injuries because right now we have just 3 Mids that would crack it in other competing teams. Pendles, Beams and Sidey.

I'm sure their will be some significant changes too our preseason training loads/player management next year to get our youngsters on the park.

I say Adams could go in the Midfield and he would give it a Real Crack

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Surely we need a complete overhaul of our fitness department, from training methods to equipment used to personnel who are employed.

We have more money than anyone else, it's time to spend it, go poach the fitness guy from the Seattle Seahawks, or Real Madrid, or something like that, pay him an absolute s**t load of money and get this thing fixed ASAP.

No point taking fitness specialists from other sports.
Afl is completely different in terms of physical strength, injuries, aerobic fitness etc.

 

[TradeDraft]

No point taking fitness specialists from other sports.
Afl is completely different in terms of physical strength, injuries, aerobic fitness etc.

What about Daniel Burgess from the Power who came from the EPL?

 

[dubber]

I just read about the American guy who trained the german socceer team for the last 8 years or so. They said that against one of the teams the german ran 25 ks more than their opponent as that's how fit they all are. I'm not saying that's what we should be doing but seriously we cannot leave any stone unturned in finding the best possible fitness & medical staff available. No more excuses, 3 years running we have been behind the comp, no more.

 

[Batty123]

Has the shift from high rotations and a bench of four to capped rotations and a sub hurt us? Before their introduction we were able to keep injury free and base our game (and I'm assuming training and pre-season) on short burst, high intensity power. I'm wondering if we've moved away from that to a more endurance based preparation and perhaps are suffering in the transition??

 

[Scodog10]

Snoop Dog why no Seedsman in that list of defenders? He missed the first 9 and with the hit we've taken on skills this year losing him for that long kills you...

 

[Vicky Park]

Knightmare has raised injury prevention as an area we should be better at. What about our rehabilitation practices - are we the absolute best at this, using the best availabable to ensure players rehab correctly? We have the facilities but are our physio practices the best they can be?

I am staggered at the number of injuries we have had three years running. It beggars belief.