Roast The Melbourne Board NAPALM thread (hosted by Topkent)

[Djcjdees]

My blowtorch is being aimed at kicking (as usual).

Don't care if you aren't the best kick going around, but if you are an AFL footballer, chances are at some point you could hit a target. I used to love Jordie through the Bailey years because he gave his absolute all and actually tackled people when half the team refused to. However, I can't abide his set shot at goal. Who knows what would have happened if he'd kicked it, but surely our chances of winning would have increased had he nailed it.

What angers me more though, is as soon as he marked it, I turned to my wife and said 'uh oh, a Jordie set shot.' She (quite rightly) told me to settle down and watch it sail through. There comes a point in every demons fan's life where he/she says to themselves, 'bl00dy hell, i know this team too well .' I have experienced it a few times before (most of them set shots from 15m out, directly in front being missed after toiling away for 20 minutes to get a chance at kicking a goal. Or my other favourite, predicting that we would ship a goal from the centre bounce after finally kicking a goal after half an hour) but that was up there with the 'best' of them.

So, Jordie gets the torch. Don't care what his stats say, or if he 'wasn't the worst' or whatever. If you miss EASY set shots in our team atm, you can G&GF. Dawes is in too as mentioned above. Miss an EASY handball to a Blease that would have kicked one of his typical goals, G&GF. Vince has too many credits in the bank this season but the lighter was lit today too...

 

[CTHORANGE]

When I heard Roos' comments about previous years, initially I wasnt overly impressed myself. After thinking about it however, Im fairly sure he's got enough runs on the board to not need to cover his own butt. I think he was probably just trying to find a way to keep the players believing in the new system, and not lose all confidence in what they're being taught (again).

On the players at the club, my opinion is that he was referring specifically to the following;

Jordie McKenzie
Mitch Clisby
Sam Blease
James Strauss
Daniel Nicholson
Michael Evans
Luke Tapscott
Dean Terlich
Jack Fitzpatrick
Rohan Bail
Matt Jones

Now the last 2 may escape de-listing or trade due to the need to cull too many others, but they should be VFL/fringe players. This is actually a pretty long list of s**t players on a single AFL list, that doesn't include any youngsters guys or rookies. These spots need to be for guys like Dom Barry, Viv Michie, Jimmy Toumpas, Aiden Riley - players who arent there yet, but we are still developing/finding out about them.

So, I can certainly see a 'big fish' - or someone not on this list being used as an example by Roos come year end - and when I look through the list to find an example.. my gut feeling is starting to be that it could be Jack Watts.

It would not surprise me, if Watts was thrown into a high-profile trade at the end of the year. I doubt we'd do it for a draft pick - but something along the lines of our priority pick and Jack Watts to Sydney, for Tom Mitchell, Zac Jones and Malceksi.

I love Wattsy, and I think he is an AFL player - but its really hard to carry a player that goes quiet in patches and struggles to tackle with intent, run defensively and put his head over the footy, in a side that needs to break the losing culture.

I'm not sure Roosy was talking about those guys you've listed, most of them have either been around for 2 years or less or played the most parts of their career for Casey. I think Roosy is referring to guys who have been in the seniors consistently for the past 3-4 years. Not to say some of those guys are any good and shouldn't be delisted, but I don't think he is blaming those guys for the mindset of the firsts.

Also after all the time and effort Roos has put into Watts and how he encouraged him to stay with us and sign on last year etc I think it'd be quite distasteful if Roos wanted to trade him a year later.

 

[Djcjdees]

Love this thread by the way. Good therapy for my MSDS

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Now the last 2 may escape de-listing or trade due to the need to cull too many others, but they should be VFL/fringe players. This is actually a pretty long list of s**t players on a single AFL list, that doesn't include any youngsters guys or rookies. These spots need to be for guys like Dom Barry, Viv Michie, Jimmy Toumpas, Aiden Riley - players who arent there yet, but we are still developing/finding out about them.

So, I can certainly see a 'big fish' - or someone not on this list being used as an example by Roos come year end - and when I look through the list to find an example.. my gut feeling is starting to be that it could be Jack Watts.

It would not surprise me, if Watts was thrown into a high-profile trade at the end of the year. I doubt we'd do it for a draft pick - but something along the lines of our priority pick and Jack Watts to Sydney, for Tom Mitchell, Zac Jones and Malceksi.

I love Wattsy, and I think he is an AFL player - but its really hard to carry a player that goes quiet in patches and struggles to tackle with intent, run defensively and put his head over the footy, in a side that needs to break the losing culture.

Lol, this is Roosy we're talking about - not Mark Neeld.

He's not a guy to make 'statements' like that, I'm not sure any good coach would consider trading a high profile player to make his other players kick into gear.

I do think we could see someone like Toumpas traded home if a deal comes up, but I think that would be the extent of it.

Guys like Watts, Trengove, Grimes I think he'll want to keep.

 

[CTHORANGE]

What angers me more though, is as soon as he marked it, I turned to my wife and said 'uh oh, a Jordie set shot.' She (quite rightly) told me to settle down and watch it sail through. There comes a point in every demons fan's life where he/she says to themselves, 'bl00dy hell, i know this team too well .'

Almost exactly what I did, turned to my missus before he kicked it and said, he will hit the post from there, damn Jordie couldn't even do that for me, clearly I still have too much optimism

 

[Topkent]

When I heard Roos' comments about previous years, initially I wasnt overly impressed myself. After thinking about it however, Im fairly sure he's got enough runs on the board to not need to cover his own butt. I think he was probably just trying to find a way to keep the players believing in the new system, and not lose all confidence in what they're being taught (again).

On the players at the club, my opinion is that he was referring specifically to the following;

Jordie McKenzie
Mitch Clisby
Sam Blease
James Strauss
Daniel Nicholson
Michael Evans
Luke Tapscott
Dean Terlich
Jack Fitzpatrick
Rohan Bail
Matt Jones

Now the last 2 may escape de-listing or trade due to the need to cull too many others, but they should be VFL/fringe players. This is actually a pretty long list of s**t players on a single AFL list, that doesn't include any youngsters guys or rookies. These spots need to be for guys like Dom Barry, Viv Michie, Jimmy Toumpas, Aiden Riley - players who arent there yet, but we are still developing/finding out about them.

So, I can certainly see a 'big fish' - or someone not on this list being used as an example by Roos come year end - and when I look through the list to find an example.. my gut feeling is starting to be that it could be Jack Watts.

It would not surprise me, if Watts was thrown into a high-profile trade at the end of the year. I doubt we'd do it for a draft pick - but something along the lines of our priority pick and Jack Watts to Sydney, for Tom Mitchell, Zac Jones and Malceksi.

I love Wattsy, and I think he is an AFL player - but its really hard to carry a player that goes quiet in patches and struggles to tackle with intent, run defensively and put his head over the footy, in a side that needs to break the losing culture.

On the weekend Terlich, Tappy, Blease, Bail and Mckenzie were the only ones from that list selected
Blease and Tappy havent been in the side all season so they can hardly be considered 'toxic' to the winning environment

I think he is referring to everyone, probably everyone apart from Nathan Jones because when he makes a mistake he does his best to make up for it immediately afterwards, the rest of the players drop their head and concede defeat

 

[Topkent]

ThePuppetMaster I think a change of thread title is in order, as much as I love the self indulgence I much prefer when everyone else piles in and torches some of our potatoes as well

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I think he is referring to everyone, probably everyone apart from Nathan Jones because when he makes a mistake he does his best to make up for it immediately afterwards, the rest of the players drop their head and concede defeat

I'll tell you one interesting thing I heard about Nathan Jones, the reason he tagged Marc Murphy (and had a couple of other run withs) was because Roosy was so frustrated at his lack of defensive awareness when spreading.

And the change is up!

 

[Demon 16]

On the weekend Terlich, Tappy, Blease, Bail and Mckenzie were the only ones from that list selected
Blease and Tappy havent been in the side all season so they can hardly be considered 'toxic' to the winning environment

I think he is referring to everyone, probably everyone apart from Nathan Jones because when he makes a mistake he does his best to make up for it immediately afterwards, the rest of the players drop their head and concede defeat

Name some names mate - go through the list and tell me who it is other than Jones and the guys I listed that will be delisted or traded?

It isnt Bernie Vince or Daniel Cross the new blokes.
It isnt Perderson, Jetta and Dunn the improvers and triers.
It isnt Grimes the captain.
It isnt Viney, Kent, JKH, Tyson, Toumpas, Hogan, Barry or Salem the kids.
It isnt Howe, McDonald or Garland - our best line, defense.
It isnt Dawes, Gawn, Frawley or Jamar the talls.

Im telling you - our list of 22-25 year olds on the previous page, that arent AFL standard and arent improving - is the longest list of its type in the comp. This is where Roos is going to make some sweeping changes.

Take away the emotional attachment to Wattsy, and he is the first one I would trade (outside the list on the previous page) because to me, he smells of the losing culture more than anyone else - and he still has some currency.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Take away the emotional attachment to Wattsy, and he is the first one I would trade (outside the list on the previous page) because to me, he smells of the losing culture more than anyone else - and he still has some currency.

If you want to pin it on one player go for it, but I don't think Roos will do that.

 

[Demon 16]

If you want to pin it on one player go for it, but I don't think Roos will do that.

I'm not pinning it on one player - I gave an entire list of guys on the previous page. 11 in fact - and specifically omitted a bunch of players under 22 from that list.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I'm not pinning it on one player - I gave an entire list of guys on the previous page. 11 in fact - and specifically omitted a bunch of players under 22 from that list.

You know one thing they all had in common? They had no leaders to guide them at the club - I'm not sure you can pin our fortunes on 11 players who came to the club and have played anywhere between the first 2-5 years of their career with very little direction from on field leaders or coaches.

 

[Topkent]

Name some names mate - go through the list and tell me who it is other than Jones and the guys I listed that will be delisted or traded?

It isnt Bernie Vince or Daniel Cross the new blokes.
It isnt Perderson, Jetta and Dunn the improvers and triers.
It isnt Grimes the captain.
It isnt Viney, Kent, JKH, Tyson, Toumpas, Hogan, Barry or Salem the kids.
It isnt Howe, McDonald or Garland - our best line, defense.
It isnt Dawes, Gawn, Frawley or Jamar the talls.

Im telling you - our list of 22-25 year olds on the previous page, that arent AFL standard and arent improving - is the longest list of its type in the comp. This is where Roos is going to make some sweeping changes.

Take away the emotional attachment to Wattsy, and he is the first one I would trade (outside the list on the previous page) because to me, he smells of the losing culture more than anyone else - and he still has some currency.

I have no idea, but what Im certain of is there might be a surprise offloading or 2 in the off season after the way he referenced our culture

You cant blame Terlich, Matt Jones, Mckenzie, Nicholson, Evans, Bail etc for our losing culture
They are s**t footballers yes, but if you took the bottom 6 of Hawthorn and Freo they aren't that much better than those blokes

We need to start looking in the mirror and reguardless of what seasons they have/haven't had look at the so called 'better' players

Nathan Jones, Colin Garland, Mark Jamar, James Frawley, Jack Watts, Jeremy Howe, Lynden Dunn, Chris Dawes, Jack Grimes, Tom McDonald and all the blokes who have been around for a while now that still have us as a bottom 4 side
These guys are all in the primes of their career and should be B - A grade AFL footballers but they arent consistently

Its so easy to pile s**t on the same triers each week but if that was the case then Roosy would just say we arent very good and that would be the end of it
But when you are talking about the losing culture of the club you arent referring to Bail, Terlich, Jones etc because they came into a poor side to plug gaps

The epitomy is probably the trio of shitness but they havent exactly played 22 games this year

I would not be surprised if a Garland, Watts, Howe, Dawes, Frawley or someone was put up for trade at the end of the year and replaced with someone with a never give in mindset

 

[Demon 16]

You know one thing they all had in common? They had no leaders to guide them at the club - I'm not sure you can pin our fortunes on 11 players who came to the club and have played anywhere between the first 2-5 years of their career with very little direction from on field leaders or coaches.

I totally agree that there are several in that list that havnt performed largely due to he environment we put them in - and I also agree that we cant pin our fortunes on them.

Doesnt change the fact that Roos is starting to use language that makes me think he wants to make some fairly deep changes to the list, and these are the guys in the gun.

And whilst Im not loading the blame on Wattsy alone, if you look at our 'best 22' players to find some changes, I reckon Watts now has to be looked at (for the right trade) - and I would also consider Grimes if he wasnt the captain.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

The reason why you don't blame the 12 good players is that there is only 12 of them. That and we don't have superstars but you can't just expect your good players to become great if they don't have the talent. Watts is the only guy really pissing away rare talent. Clark has/had the talent but that's an entirely different kettle of fish.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I totally agree that there are several in that list that havnt performed largely due to he environment we put them in - and I also agree that we cant pin our fortunes on them.

Doesnt change the fact that Roos is starting to use language that makes me think he wants to make some fairly deep changes to the list, and these are the guys in the gun.

And whilst Im not loading the blame on Wattsy alone, if you look at our 'best 22' players to find some changes, I reckon Watts now has to be looked at (for the right trade) - and I would also consider Grimes if he wasnt the captain.

Roosy is also talking after a shocking performance against Brisbane, he also said 'our guys are much better than that' - no doubt we'll make changes, I wouldn't think it would be significantly more than normal though.

Obviously if we were offered a clear win-win trade for Watts and Roos doesn't see him as a must keep then I'd expect Roos to look at it closely (especially if it's a mid) - I wouldn't be trading him to 'clear' list space or something like that though.

 

[Cannon82]

I'm not sure Roosy was talking about those guys you've listed, most of them have either been around for 2 years or less or played the most parts of their career for Casey. I think Roosy is referring to guys who have been in the seniors consistently for the past 3-4 years. Not to say some of those guys are any good and shouldn't be delisted, but I don't think he is blaming those guys for the mindset of the firsts.

Yep, his comments read to me as a notice to everyone on the list. Senior blokes who are treading water and getting games by virtue of the rest of the list being s**t / not experienced enough need to start putting in. It could be aimed at the likes of Garland, Watts, Dunn, Jamar, etc... pretty much anyone except Nathan Jones. Roos is looking for a reaction from the playing group - if he doesn't get one, I imagine one or two "safe" senior names being put up for trade to shake up the place. Obviously drastic action is required.

 

[CTHORANGE]

Loving the new thread title

 

[LeverPuller]

I've got a blowtorch. Hell, I've got a flamethrower.

Handballing back into traffic.

This has been a problem for ten ******* years. Players A, B and D are close to the contest, player C is just outside. Player A will handball to player B, who passes it to player C who is just outside the contest and has a bit more time. C will stall and then handball to D who now has a player right on top of him. D will get tackled and at best we will get a ball up.

It's so continually ******* frustrating when they do it. More to the point, somehow it's generational - I remember guys doing it back in 2004.

 

[Topkent]

We have had the worst development of any one in the AFL
You look at someone like Jetta and you can see what happens when you develop someone properly
He will never win a BnF but he just does all the basics to the best of his ability, we have managed to bring in draftee after draftee and teach them how to do everything incorrectly
Jimmy Toumpas was a star at junior level but under us he just doesnt do any basic things correctly

Jack Trengove when he started was the best 'footballer' id ever seen us draft in that he just did so many basic things perfectly I.E getting his hands free for a handball or taking a tackle to help him dish it off and so on

Last time he played for us he was going to ground easily, getting run down and just not a good footballer
Thats why we messed up taking toumpas over Wines, because Wines would be like Nathan Jones, You cant stop him just trying to get the footy

 

[Praetorian]

I've got a blowtorch. Hell, I've got a flamethrower.

Handballing back into traffic.

This has been a problem for ten ******* years. Players A, B and D are close to the contest, player C is just outside. Player A will handball to player B, who passes it to player C who is just outside the contest and has a bit more time. C will stall and then handball to D who now has a player right on top of him. D will get tackled and at best we will get a ball up.

It's so continually ******* frustrating when they do it. More to the point, somehow it's generational - I remember guys doing it back in 2004.

It has been really noticeable lately but I'm sure we looked a lot more slick at the start of the year with our transition handballs out of the contest. Yet another reason we are missing Cross bigtime

 

[Topkent]

It has been really noticeable lately but I'm sure we looked a lot more slick at the start of the year with our transition handballs out of the contest. Yet another reason we are missing Cross bigtime

Just a good footballer is Daniel Cross, A less heralded version of Lenny Hayes

It will be the one of the best things this club has done for a while if the young blokes can pick up some of his habits

 

[Topkent]

The Blowtorch-

Jack Watts and Chris Dawes

Jacky Boy we have had an unsteady relationship at best, at worst I wish you played for Collingwood
This guy is the epitomy of our losing culture, we keep hoping for so much from him and we keep being underwhelmed
Its not even his softness ( which is the worst in the team )

Its his lack of want and desire to impact the game, he is so mentally scarred that there is just no recovering for him at Melbourne
He has improved on last year, but he also wouldnt be getting a game in a half decent side
Demand the ******* footy mate, run for it.. if you dont get it then ******* run again
Take ownership.. * sake
Every poor game you play just reminds me of the tanking


Chris Dawes- I created the thread praising you, at this point now Ive lost all good will for you
Your the most overpaid 3rd forward in the league and you are basically a ruckman who cant ruck and a forward who cant mark
Other than size you are no longer adding anything to the team.. Gawn came in and was already a better forward than you..
Stop jumping at the footy with both legs and start using your ******* knee.. Your jumping like a basketballer.. Jump like a ******* mongrel!

Mini Torch-
Matt Jones kick across the back 50 .. When you switch the play your supposed to kick it further than higher
You have history turning it over in our back 50 as well, I remember you giving one up against the tigers

Umpires not rewarding Nev Jettas tackles today, he ******* nailed some hawks and got no reward

Roughy- First he kneed Jeremy Howe in the quad in a very clumsy tackle , then not 15 seconds later , earned himself a week on the sidelines with another garbage tackling effort

 

[CTHORANGE]

I must admit Dawes isn't offering much, earlier in the year he was charging around demanding the ball and making contests, seems a bit lost now, almost like he lost some motivation. Needs to pull his finger out and get positive play back into his game.

 

[Djcjdees]

Blowtorch this week is giving up easy goals by not having a sweeper at the back of a pack. Pretty much what you learn at schoolboy level. Always have someone staying down goal side of the pack to ensure they don't get an easy stroll into goal. I stopped counting at 5 of these (or similar) goals yesterday. We lost by 9 goals. Cut some of those out and it is a much closer game, then who knows what happens.

We are usually pretty good in our defensive 50, which is why we haven't seen ridiculous 100 point floggings every second week because everyone knows the ball is going to spend more than it's fair share of time there. Can't afford to gift teams goals like this (because we know we will gift them in other, more novel ways).

Small, but usual blow torch - kicking (of course) across goal when you are a less than perfect kick. I would rather you hoof it 50m up field and out on the full, than kicking it across goals, to be intercepted and have a deflating goal kicked on you. If in ANY doubt, which you should be considering you are a less than perfect kick, looooong as you can to the boundary. Again, pretty much schoolboy level stuff here.

Mini blow torch - in contrast to the small but usual blow torch, not having confidence to hit the first, easy target. You are an AFL footballer. You could kick the ball 30m 10/10 times at one point in your life or you wouldn't be an AFL footballer. Hit the easy target and keep the ball moving. Don't hesitate, wait 15 seconds for all and sundry to be manned up, then kick it there anyway. This defeats the purpose of teammates running to space for you and pi$$es everyone off, most importantly MSDS sufferers in the crowd. Kindly stop being so crap.