Game Day The Rot In The Middle

[The Passenger]

If Wellingham was worst a top 20 pick then Masten is.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

If anything Wellingham's trade should give an insight as to what we could get for Masten.

We traded pick 17 for a premiership player whom there was hope would develop from fourth or fifth onballer into one of the on ball leaders at a weaker club. I think most people perceived it as being reasonably fair. Maybe paying slight overs, but our next pick was in the 30's and clearly Wellingham was worth more than that... For arguments sake we'll say Wellingham -> pick 17 was a fair deal at the time.

Masten has never got close to the player Wellingham was thought to be 3-4 years ago. He is a year younger than Wellingham, so if Masten was traded at the end of 2015 he'd be 2 years older than Wellingham was when he was traded. So on that evidence Masten is at least a 10-15 pick drop.

Or look at it another way - Wellingham's trade value has only gone down since coming to the Eagles. He has now had a poor run with injury, form and attitude. He is also 3 years older. So Wellingham's value has gone down since 2012... Probably 10-15 spots, and yet if we were to put both up at the trade table we'd probably get slightly better offers for Wellingham than Masten.

So yeah, Masten is worth pretty much nothing at the trade table now. If we were able to extract a pick in the early 20's from someone I'd just cut and run. If I were list manager he would have till the end of his contract (2016) to save his career at the Eagles. I don't know if the club have such a pessimistic view. It's a shame because a few years ago the signs were starting to head in an upward trajectory but they have well and truly flatlined.

These draft spots are of course assuming equal perceived talent in this draft as the 2012 one. I've no idea where they stand against each other.

 

[Snortle]

It's been done before by Woosh. If naitanui didnt get the ball before it hit the ground he was a liability and the opposition would constantly walk it out of the middle. It was horrible to watch and should never be done again.

Oh you mean he wasn't successful in that role for the first 2 years of his career so lets end it there...

OK.

Lets do that with all players shall we.

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

Oh you mean he wasn't successful in that role for the first 2 years of his career so lets end it there...

OK.

Lets do that with all players shall we.

It's clear it just wouldnt work. Having 2, 200cm players in there, we're slow enough with Naitanui in there alone as it is. The problem with ruckman is if they get knocked of the ball, because they are so big, they are pretty much out of the contest from there. They also have poor balance so if you catch them wrong footed, they are so easily taken out of the contest.

I know Naitanui is unlike any other ruckman but I'm still horrified from Watson wrong footing Naitanui and taking him out of the contest so easily when we did try him in the middle

There's a reason why they tried it a few times and never again

 

[Eastern Rangers]

If anything Wellingham's trade should give an insight as to what we could get for Masten.

We traded pick 17 for a premiership player whom there was hope would develop from fourth or fifth onballer into one of the on ball leaders at a weaker club. I think most people perceived it as being reasonably fair. Maybe paying slight overs, but our next pick was in the 30's and clearly Wellingham was worth more than that... For arguments sake we'll say Wellingham -> pick 17 was a fair deal at the time.

Masten has never got close to the player Wellingham was thought to be 3-4 years ago. He is a year younger than Wellingham, so if Masten was traded at the end of 2015 he'd be 2 years older than Wellingham was when he was traded. So on that evidence Masten is at least a 10-15 pick drop.

Or look at it another way - Wellingham's trade value has only gone down since coming to the Eagles. He has now had a poor run with injury, form and attitude. He is also 3 years older. So Wellingham's value has gone down since 2012... Probably 10-15 spots, and yet if we were to put both up at the trade table we'd probably get slightly better offers for Wellingham than Masten.

So yeah, Masten is worth pretty much nothing at the trade table now. If we were able to extract a pick in the early 20's from someone I'd just cut and run. If I were list manager he would have till the end of his contract (2016) to save his career at the Eagles. I don't know if the club have such a pessimistic view. It's a shame because a few years ago the signs were starting to head in an upward trajectory but they have well and truly flatlined.

These draft spots are of course assuming equal perceived talent in this draft as the 2012 one. I've no idea where they stand against each other.

/Sarcasm was needed.

Masten won't fetch anything near what Wellingham did because like Wellingham he's bog average. The price we paid for Wellingham was never justifiable and the ages involved aren't all together that relevant. Masten has production under his belt that Wellingham never did, but they're both mediocre. Hindsight wasn't needed for insight. Instead some foresight and some decent analysis of Wellingham both as a talent and as an individual was.

If you're going after a mature player you go after something bankable. If they're 23 and being talked about in potential terms there better be a damn good reason why they haven't shown a hell of a lot more than Sharrod had. Anyone who still thinks pick 17 was fair when reasoned arguments where made at the time and proven accurate with the measure of time are themselves still defending the indefensible.

Regarding Masten's future i hope it's safe to assume he's on thin ice. The problem is the players who should be knocking down his door have all been in crutches and should that happen again next year he'll wind up with a contract extension. As far as his talent goes the game quickly passed him by and it's all about speed of ball movement.

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

/

If you're going after a mature player you go after something bankable. If they're 23 and being talked about in potential terms there better be a damn good reason why they haven't shown a hell of a lot more than Sharrod had. Anyone who still thinks pick 17 was fair when reasoned arguments where made at the time and proven accurate with the measure of time are themselves still defending the indefensible.t.

There was a pretty good reason. He was behind Swan, Pendles, Beams and Sidebottom, all A grade midfielders even at the time of the trade, for midfield minutes but was still producing pretty good numbers. He had decent height, speed, strength, a good mark and was both inside and outside. He was everything West Coast was looking for in a midfielder and still are...sadly

 

[Eastern Rangers]

There was a pretty good reason. He was behind Swan, Pendles, Beams and Sidebottom, all A grade midfielders even at the time of the trade, for midfield minutes but was still producing pretty good numbers. He had decent height, speed, strength, a good mark and was both inside and outside. He was everything West Coast was looking for in a midfielder and still are...sadly

1. His production problems were real. Hierarchy aside he didn't get enough of the ball in a high disposal team. Period.
2. His professionalism and off field application was a known thing. As was his party boy attitude.
3. He didn't have the junior pedigree. Was a rookie selection which adds a level of skepticism to his production issues.
4. Even if he did turn into the player we wanted he wouldn't have been enough to turn our midfield around. The essential problems remain until root and stem changes happen.

The trade was done of a whim, with only faith to reinforce it.

 

[94_Eagles]

If Wellingham was worst a top 20 pick then Masten is.

A 26 year old, with one competitive advantage which doesn't even involve actual football skill, who is also on the decline in actual football skills?

 

[Masto]

Regarding Masten's future i hope it's safe to assume he's on thin ice. The problem is the players who should be knocking down his door have all been in crutches and should that happen again next year he'll wind up with a contract extension. As far as his talent goes the game quickly passed him by and it's all about speed of ball movement.

The game passed him by? He's averaging 27 disposals a game. He has some of the quickest hands in the team - so much so that his handballs are too slick for some of his teammates. If he needs replacing we are in seriously trouble because there are a ton of worse players on our list.

 

[94_Eagles]

The game passed him by? He's averaging 27 disposals a game. He has some of the quickest hands in the team - so much so that his handballs are too slick for some of his teammates. If he needs replacing we are in seriously trouble because there are a ton of worse players on our list.

 

[Masto]

Posting drunk again or did your kid get hold of your bigfooty account?

 

[94_Eagles]

Posting drunk again or did your kid get hold of your bigfooty account?

Drunk kid got hold

 

[Woutizmoo]

There was a pretty good reason. He was behind Swan, Pendles, Beams and Sidebottom, all A grade midfielders even at the time of the trade, for midfield minutes but was still producing pretty good numbers. He had decent height, speed, strength, a good mark and was both inside and outside. He was everything West Coast was looking for in a midfielder and still are...sadly

reminds me of chad fletcher

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

1. His production problems were real. Hierarchy aside he didn't get enough of the ball in a high disposal team. Period.
2. His professionalism and off field application was a known thing. As was his party boy attitude.
3. He didn't have the junior pedigree. Was a rookie selection which adds a level of skepticism to his production issues.
4. Even if he did turn into the player we wanted he wouldn't have been enough to turn our midfield around. The essential problems remain until root and stem changes happen.

The trade was done of a whim, with only faith to reinforce it.

I dont disagree with you. I'm just pointing out that West Coast took a punt that Sharrod was being held back due to being 5th in line in a superior midfield and that being 1st or 2nd would boost his numbers.

Turns out they were wrong

I was certainly one of those advocating not to use our first round

 

[Prem87]

reminds me of chad fletcher

Fletchers was a gun in 2004. Played his role and did it very very very well. Was arguably our best kick going inside 50.

Was never the same player since then - probably went harder on the drugs IMO to the point where he could hardly hit a target.

 

[LongoDongo]

reminds me of chad fletcher

Geez...Fletch was useless....

 

[LongoDongo]

I cannot believe McGinnity is still being flown to Brisbane. ...or that Hill is in the team....Christ!!!!

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

I cannot believe McGinnity is still being flown to Brisbane. ...or that Hill is in the team....Christ!!!!

Hill was in our top 10 last week

 

[LongoDongo]

Hill was in our top 10 last week

.that means nothing...our top 10 were atrocious. Hill cannot tackle...very soft player...hence Eade flicked him. Hill has skills....but no guts.

 

[Dugg]

.that means nothing...our top 10 were atrocious. Hill cannot tackle...very soft player...hence Eade flicked him. Hill has skills....but no guts.

He was in our top 10 tacklers last week

 

[LongoDongo]

He was in our top 10 tacklers last week

..we didnt tackle last week....so being in the top 10 is like wtf??
Hes soft....i like him....but hes soft. Have watched players blaze through his tackle countless times.

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

.that means nothing...our top 10 were atrocious. Hill cannot tackle...very soft player...hence Eade flicked him. Hill has skills....but no guts.

He was in our top 10 tacklers last week

Equal 2nd highest tackler last week actually

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

..we didnt tackle last week....so being in the top 10 is like wtf??
Hes soft....i like him....but hes soft. Have watched players blaze through his tackle countless times.

you cant drop him after being one of our best players, what sort of message does that send the playing group?

I dont rate him but you cant drop him after a good game

 

[LongoDongo]

..there is no future with Hill or McGinnity...

play kids....like Simo is....learn about what we have and at yrs end make a call on the list.

 

[Dugg]

..we didnt tackle last week....so being in the top 10 is like wtf??
Hes soft....i like him....but hes soft. Have watched players blaze through his tackle countless times.

So our team didn't tackle last week, yet hill did and he is soft?

Let's drop one of the only blokes who put in a good effort last week

 

[LongoDongo]

you cant drop him after being one of our best players, what sort of message does that send the playing group?

...he wasnt one of our best...he did sfa