Rumour The Thread formerly known as the rumour file, now with zero rumours

[Faz 2000]

Lucas played 17 games this year. Shows more about your opinion on him.

Yep, I reckon Lucas is fine. Meanwhile we're falling over ourselves to land Shane Savage who is about the same age, played a few less games, got a bit less of the ball than Lucas.

Both good sorts who can contribute. Who has the higher ceiling? I reckon Lucas has had less opportunity to put it together due to injuries and coming into the system 12 months later, so probably him. There was also a reason he was drafted where he was drafted.

Patience with Lucas. I don't get why we'd be throwing Lucas away and throwing second-round picks+ to get Savage, a pretty comparable player.

 

[thylacine60]

In your opinion and I'm sure others.
Again you assume I give a toss

That's the dickhead part.

 

[Bronze]

What were Docherty and Savage like as juniors?

I'm more than comfortable keeping these picks. We drafted three solid players last year.

Overrating Savage who wasn't a first or second round pick. Was pick 75.

Curnow and Lucas aren't going to give up their spots to Docherty and Savage.

Nah I'm not overrating Savage and I won't be overly disappointed if we don't get him. I know he was pick 75 about 5 years ago but I'm not sure that matters. Wasn't Dane Swan about pick 60? You can gather from Mick's comments that we need more midfield depth and you have to acknowledge Savage is a ready made AFL player that doesn't need 2 or 3 pre-seasons under his belt.

We have hardly traded away draft picks in the last 5-6 years and by all accounts it's not a deep draft compared to next years. I'd prefer the club recruited some quality midfielders into the group whilst developing existing kids like Boots, Menzel, Graham and Temay. We need to take that leap into the top 4 and aim for a Grand Final whilst our current stars are still playing well. Call me impatient.

 

[Silvagnis]

Docherty to replace Scotland (long term).
Thomas replaces Betts as a mid/forward
Lucas becomes part of the rotations with Betts gone.

 

[PP34]

If Lucas doesn't learn how to tackle and use his peripheral vision within two seasons we should dump him.

For now I'd keep him.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

So Lucas has firmed as the whipping boy with the departures of Hampson, Davies and Joseph

EFA

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Lucas should be a required player. Swapping a top 20 pick with talent from 3 years ago for another top 20 pick with talent from 2 years ago in Docherty is shuffling deckchairs...particularly when Lucas has shown as much, if not more, than Docherty.

 

[Sublime]

Lucas played 17 games this year. Shows more about your opinion on him.

The improvement he showed this year was great IMO and can see him taking another step next year. I'm sure our supporters would love to have Smedts in our team but he would more frustrating than Kane but has better mids around him.

Judd, Murphy and Scotland's form was the real reason we had midfield issues.

Agree about Lucas. This was his first season with anywhere near a consistent run in the first team and he did well everything considered. For all we know he may have even just ran out of steam and could well still be very much in favour.

 

[Silvagnis]

Nah I'm not overrating Savage and I won't be overly disappointed if we don't get him. I know he was pick 75 about 5 years ago but I'm not sure that matters. Wasn't Dane Swan about pick 60? You can gather from Mick's comments that we need more midfield depth and you have to acknowledge Savage is a ready made AFL player that doesn't need 2 or 3 pre-seasons under his belt.

We have hardly traded away draft picks in the last 5-6 years and by all accounts it's not a deep draft compared to next years. I'd prefer the club recruited some quality midfielders into the group whilst developing existing kids like Boots, Menzel, Graham and Temay. We need to take that leap into the top 4 and aim for a Grand Final whilst our current stars are still playing well. Call me impatient.

Why will Savage and Docherty help us catch the top four sides?

I don't see Savage and Docherty helping us take the next step any more than Lucas, Bootsma and McInnes.

We traded picks in the 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2011 drafts.

 

[HARKER]

Doesn't matter what we say or do.

The fact that Lucas isn't signed up leading into the trade period, suggests he's not as required as we may want him to be.

 

[GordonBlue]

Doesn't matter what we say or do.

The fact that Lucas isn't signed up leading into the trade period, suggests he's not as required as we may want him to be.

He is trade-able... however only if we get a really good deal. The wanted uncontracted players will not be signed up until the trade period is over for two reasons, 1. see what teams would want to offer for them and 2. see how much we can afford to pay them

 

[HARKER]

He is trade-able... however only if we get a really good deal. The wanted uncontracted players will not be signed up until the trade period is over for two reasons, 1. see what teams would want to offer for them and 2. see how much we can afford to pay them

Have a look who he's sitting with. Ellard, Duigan, White and Buckley. Even White and Buckley have been touted as having signed on for a year.

You'd be hard pressed to argue that he is a required player. Can you imagine not having signed Henderson before now?

 

[etsal1]

Can you imagine not having signed Henderson before now?

Don't even want to imagine it.

 

[HARKER]

Don't even want to imagine it.

That's all I'm saying.

You tie up your required players and the fact that Lucas isn't signed and that we're looking at trading him suggests that he's not critical for us.

 

[GordonBlue]

Have a look who he's sitting with. Ellard, Duigan, White and Buckley. Even White and Buckley have been touted as having signed on for a year.

You'd be hard pressed to argue that he is a required player. Can you imagine not having signed Henderson before now?

Lucas finds himself in this situation because he is not contracted and could be used as currency... however will only be considered if we are suitably compensated. It doesn't not mean we are offering Lucas to the highest seller.

Someone like Henderson is essential to our team... it's unfair to compare. However for example if Robinson/McLean/Watson/McInnes/Armfield etc even Walker/Carrazzo, should they have been out of contract, the club would not be jumping at the bit to sign them right now. They will wait to see where they sit afterwards.

 

[HBF]

Lucas played 17 games this year. Shows more about your opinion on him.

The improvement he showed this year was great IMO and can see him taking another step next year. I'm sure our supporters would love to have Smedts in our team but he would more frustrating than Kane but has better mids around him.

Judd, Murphy and Scotland's form was the real reason we had midfield issues.

Of course he showed improvement this year, but it must be concerning that he was dropped at the pointy end of the season. I'd stick with him, and get him to work on some aspects of his game - tackling would be right up there.
But I don't agree with sending him to a club where we get a similar player in return.

 

[pjhad1]

Of course he showed improvement this year, but it must be concerning that he was dropped at the pointy end of the season. I'd stick with him, and get him to work on some aspects of his game - tackling would be right up there.
But I don't agree with sending him to a club where we get a similar player in return.

I think you answered your own concern there... Tackling is imperative at the pointy end of the season. Hopefully something he will improve on during the pre-season.

 

[Chism]

We all know that Lucas has some aspects of his game that he needs to work on. Just get a bad feeling about his future as he fell out of favour with Mick at the wrong end of the season. Dropped after the Fremantle game and didn't get back into the senior side.

This.

Honestly i never really rated him anyway but he is still a Carlton player and will get my support and we all cannot like every player but there are plenty of aspects of Kanes game which i do not like currently and it would be fair to say Mick has the same opinions.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Of course he showed improvement this year, but it must be concerning that he was dropped at the pointy end of the season. I'd stick with him, and get him to work on some aspects of his game - tackling would be right up there.
But I don't agree with sending him to a club where we get a similar player in return.

He always starts well in games, then tapers off. Early in games he has shown he can be a damaging player, kicks goals and gets involved.

Still don't reckon he has the tank to play 4 quarters. He gets that right, and he's a pretty good footballer.

 

[Bronze]

Why will Savage and Docherty help us catch the top four sides?

I don't see Savage and Docherty helping us take the next step any more than Lucas, Bootsma and McInnes.

We traded picks in the 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2011 drafts.

Maybe you're right.....adding Savage and Docherty primarily adds depth to the list. There just needs to be more competition for spots. They are quality players too, certainly not list cloggers. Every year we hear the same thing, Carlton's list has no depth. I agree somewhat when we have a few injuries and the likes of Joseph or Ellard come in.

By the way, I thought our only traded picks were for Judd in 2007, Warnock in 2008 and McLean in 2009. We did OK there I think.

 

[De Iulio2Wiggins]

Shock: 21 year old player gets tired towards end of season; is replaced by more mature bodies.

He is precisely the sort of player we need with Yarran's yeah-nah attitude and Simpson entrenched at half back. I trust Mick to get the best out of him.

 

[dropdead1]

Although Lucas made some improvements this year, his deficiencies are obvious for all to see. I don't take any pleasure in saying that I predicted fairly early on in the season that he would not be in the side come the latter stages of the year. I honestly don't think he has what it takes to develop into an AFL standard mid. I would look to move him on ASAP.

 

[Crippa#9]

Although Lucas made some improvements this year, his deficiencies are obvious for all to see. I don't take any pleasure in saying that I predicted fairly early on in the season that he would not be in the side come the latter stages of the year. I honestly don't think he has what it takes to develop into an AFL standard mid. I would look to move him on ASAP.

I think he's an AFL standard player but i suppose as supporters we have become tired of seeing him not develop in areas we expected him to such as disposal, decision making, composure and hardness.

You would love to have Scotty Pendlebury at the club to take him under his wing.

 

[inyourcool]

Although Lucas made some improvements this year, his deficiencies are obvious for all to see. I don't take any pleasure in saying that I predicted fairly early on in the season that he would not be in the side come the latter stages of the year. I honestly don't think he has what it takes to develop into an AFL standard mid. I would look to move him on ASAP.

I agree. Has been in the system long enough to have made improvement but nothing. If anything he has gone backwards! Similar to Bell, his peripheral vision and awareness (lack thereof) will prevent him taking the step up. We simply don't have the know-how to develop kids in this way

 

[Kramer1]

Really don't get this...Lucas took some decent strides this year. We don't have a lot of young mids, we lack legs across the ground, he's not costing us much, and likely not worth a great deal in a trade scenario and we have the midfield depth to put another year of development into him and hopefully reap the rewards. No-brainer that Lucas stays unless (as is the case for all players) we have an offer too good to refuse.

There are some parallels with Thomas...I don't think Thomas 'making it' was ever questioned, but he was certainly flaky in his first couple of years before developing into one of the most damaging two way mids in the comp. Training buddies?