News Thomas and Keefe - 2 year ban - Trade, De-List, Rookie

[TheGreatGrundy]

Differenve between us and your mob is we will sack them. No point letting it go on for years and years. You won't be able to be a dog with a bone then.

I reckon you are a computer-generated poster set to produce anti-normal vitriol around Collingwood bigfooty cyber-traps 24/7. That's why you and your anti-all stance are relentless and omnipresent. You should be made to undergo those tests where you are given a bunch of indecipherable letters and numbers. You know the ones? When your credibility as a person is validated by your ability to faithfully recreate a group of doubtful digits? 'Before each post, complete this sequence!' Then maybe we'd know whether or not you're for real, and not some creation of an alien mind tasked with the infiltration and implosion of Collingwood Bigfooty Forum folk.

 

[Fruit]

I don't know the exact protocol of ASADA's testing but my understanding is that it is supposed to be random or unless there is suspicion they will target test.
Seeing as these two live together it would suggest that the testing wasn't random. That makes me suspect that ASADA had a reason to choose these two for testing.

 

[35Daicos]

I reckon you are a computer-generated poster set to produce anti-normal vitriol around Collingwood bigfooty cyber-traps 24/7. That's why you and your anti-all stance are relentless and omnipresent. You should be made to undergo those tests where you are given a bunch of indecipherable letters and numbers. You know the ones? When your credibility as a person is validated by your ability to faithfully recreate a group of doubtful digits? 'Before each post, complete this sequence!' Then maybe we'd know whether or not you're for real, and not some creation of an alien mind tasked with the infiltration and implosion of Collingwood Bigfooty Forum folk.

Very interesting post, and I think that first sentence sums it up nicely.

 

[gutsroy]

You're right I believe but there was a time not too long ago when clenbuterol was thought to be "anti-catabolic" (anabolic).........it's not beyond the realms of possibility that some would still use it with that intent.

Happy for others with more knowledge to correct and not 100% sure if this addresses what you're discussing, but my understanding:
β2-agonist (as is salbutamol, e.g., but salbutamol is shorter-acting). They induce bronchodilation and find therapeutic use in, e.g., asthma patients, but clenbuterol is long-acting, so it doesn't really give any immediate relief / boost (e.g if taken before training), that would be more salbutamol / formoterol.

The possess anabolic activity, but it varies a lot amongst the individual drugs and is not via interactions with testosterone / growth hormone / insulin, but β2 receptor stimulation (also applies to fat-mobilizing). Animal studies have demonstrated clenbuterol's anabolic potential (used as a growth promoter in cattle), human studies are more equivocal.

Amongst athletes, think the reputation is a repartitioner / fat burner (increase in fat burning and increase in muscle mass --> increase in lean body mass), as well as use after discontinuing a steroid course to reduce the catabolic phase, would assume that lends itself more to offseason use. Normally taken short-course, because it can down-regulate receptors if taken long-term; limits its effectiveness as an anabolic agent in the long run, apparently.

Again, though, happy to let the cobblers do the cobbling if someone else has a better understanding (maybe someone who has personal experience).

 

[gutsroy]

In terms of Keeffe and Thomas, I guess all we can do is watch it unfold and hope for a just outcome based on a full review of the evidence.

 

[loki04]

I thought the drug could be used for asthma?
Some countries I think also use it for crops?
You never know what could have happened, but we'll have to wait and see.

As for the bombers, well not long to go before we know. and you've done enough belting in the last couple of years… Hopefully our turn

Its not used for athsma in Australia Salbuterol (albuterol) is though and has similar results when used in high dosages just with less side effects.

Clen is made for animals human use is blackmarket mainly barring the odd country with lesser health codes.

 

[loki04]

Happy for others with more knowledge to correct and not 100% sure if this addresses what you're discussing, but my understanding:
β2-agonist (as is salbutamol, e.g., but salbutamol is shorter-acting). They induce bronchodilation and find therapeutic use in, e.g., asthma patients, but clenbuterol is long-acting, so it doesn't really give any immediate relief / boost (e.g if taken before training), that would be more salbutamol / formoterol.

The possess anabolic activity, but it varies a lot amongst the individual drugs and is not via interactions with testosterone / growth hormone / insulin, but β2 receptor stimulation (also applies to fat-mobilizing). Animal studies have demonstrated clenbuterol's anabolic potential (used as a growth promoter in cattle), human studies are more equivocal.

Amongst athletes, think the reputation is a repartitioner / fat burner (increase in fat burning and increase in muscle mass --> increase in lean body mass), as well as use after discontinuing a steroid course to reduce the catabolic phase, would assume that lends itself more to offseason use. Normally taken short-course, because it can down-regulate receptors if taken long-term; limits its effectiveness as an anabolic agent in the long run, apparently.

Again, though, happy to let the cobblers do the cobbling if someone else has a better understanding (maybe someone who has personal experience).

That about covers it.
In short if you want to get ripped but not big chew on clen for least amount of negative sides compared to the heavy hitters.
Otherwise if you don't care about your long term health smash winstrol (say goodbye to liver and hello to dialysis machine later in life) and test prop.

 

[rand corp]

http://buy-clenbuterol.kiwidrug.com/

 

[loki04]

Clenbuterol (Clen) is the common term used that refers to the popular bronchodilator Clenbuterol Hydrochloride. Designed with the intent of treating chronic asthma, Clen is also a powerful fat-burner with some similarities to Ephedrine yet far more powerfully effective. While designed to treat respiratory issues it is this medications fat-burning abilities that have intrigued so many and by and large without question it is the number one reason many buy Clenbuterol (Clen) in the first place. The reason is simple; Clenbuterol (Clen) greatly increases your total metabolic activity by stimulating the Beta-2 receptors; once this process is in play the results are very simple, we now use stored body-fat for energy to a higher degree. While direct fat-burning is the primary mode of action regarding its metabolic activity properties Clen has been shown to also greatly reduce total appetite in some; for some it wont but decreasing appetite can be useful to those struggling to lose weight.

How Clenbuterol (Clen) Works:

The process is rather simple; the Beta-2 receptors are stimulated to increase metabolic activity. This increase leads to an increase in your core temperature due to an increase in cellular heat. This cellular increase is brought about by the mitochondria of the cells as they are what heats up thereby affecting the total body temperature. This increase in temperature increases metabolic rate, so you have a full circle effect apt towards promoting the use of stored body-fat for energy.

The Benefits of Clenbuterol (Clen):

Obviously it goes without saying; if you supplement with Clen youre going to burn more body-fat but as it was designed to treat asthma as you may already suspect it can also improve greatly cardiovascular efficiency. Even so, fat-loss remains its primary force of action but Clenbuterol (Clen) also unsuspectingly to many carries with it anabolic properties. Although the anabolic nature of this drug is very mild it has been shown to have the ability to slightly increase fat-free mass. As you understand the more fat-free mass we hold the greater our metabolism functions; again, this only promotes the fat-burning abilities of Clenbuterol (Clen).

The Downside of Clenbuterol (Clen):

clenbuterol,steroids,clen Like all things in life that sound too good to be true, well, in this case the benefits are true but they are not perfect. Clenbuterol Hydrochloride is not without side-effects and they can be quite annoying to say the least. Clen has a great stimulating effect making the individual very jittery and often falling prey to insomnia. How severe these conditions will be will vary greatly from one person to the next and for most will be their worst the first few days of use but some level of a jittery effect will exist in most all that use it. Some individuals may also experience muscle cramps while supplementing with Clenbuterol (Clen) but generally if the individual simply takes in a little extra water each day he will be fine; in-fact, you can almost guarantee it.

While cramps and jitters are annoying they are not seriously problematic but Clen carries with it other side-effects as well, most notably possible cardiac hypertrophy. While this is a concern it is one that is very dose dependent and those who supplement responsibly will not find such a concern to be a reality. Responsible use will not only revolve around dose but duration of use as well; Clenbuterol (Clen) should never be used in a year round fashion and generally speaking 4 months of total use per year is about as far as we want to take it in order to remain safe and healthy.

 

[dnbassador]

Innocent until proven guilty i say! I hope they haven't done anything wrong no player should have to go thru this in their sporting careers. I would like to think that players know the risks and something has happened out of their control that has led to the positive test.

Good luck Thomas and Keefe!

 

[Vicky Park]

In terms of Keeffe and Thomas, I guess all we can do is watch it unfold and hope for a just outcome based on a full review of the evidence.

Great post. Says it all. Its also human nature to speculate, and try to find an explanation which gives us hope and makes us all feel better. But speculating on a public forum has other dangers, and I've heard more on here in the last 12 hours about JT and Keeffe, and what they may or may not have done, to last me a lifetime. Looks like we are in for a rough ride, at least for the next several weeks. Will Bucks ever get the monkey off his back?

 

[ace andy]

Hey guys for what its worth i am actually of the opinion that your 2 players did not intentionally take clenbuterol. It just doesnt make sense to me for them to use it considering the risks associated and the nature of our game. The fact that both of them have returned positive samples only confirms my suspicions that they have eaten or drank something together at the same time that has been contaminated. As bizarre as it sounds it might have been better if more of your players returned positive samples becuase then it would be easier to pinpoint where they may have been contaminated.

I seriously wonder how many innocent athetes have been banned over the years due to ridiculously unlucky circumstances over which they had no control, yet WADA/ASADA always spiel about "its the athletes responsibility what goes into their body". Contamination can and does happen no matter how vigilant the consumer is to do everything right. IMO The Hepatitis cases from frozen berries are a similar example.

Also its odd to me that so many of the athletes who return positive samples for Clenbuterol more than any other drug always seem so adamant to declare that they are innocent.
Katrin Krabbe
Jessica Hardy
Alberto Contador
Michael Rogers

After belgian cyclist Jonathon Breyne returned a positive sample of clenbuterol he attempted suicide

The news was like my world collapsing on me,” he went on. “What have I done to deserve this? Nothing. Absoloutely nothing. I’ve never taken anything. But how can I prove that with what’s happened in China?”

So i really feel for Pies supporters and especially the two players in question. I would rather see 100 athletes dope and get away with it then to see 2 players get every thing that they have worked for in life taken away so unfairly. All that said if they come out in 2 or 3 weeks and admit that they took it intentionally, I would hope they get significant bans for making me look like an optimistic fool.

When do drug cheats ever admit they are guilty when first caught? They always spin some story.

 

[Moist Biscuit]

Just wanted to pop in and have my 2 cents worth. They've probably fallen into the Crowley and Saad catagory in doing something stupid over trying to enhance performance. Hopefully a B sample shows that they're clean because this is good for nobody. All the best for the upcoming season

 

[Apex36]

Would not Surprise me at all IF the AFL and AFLPA have hidden Positive Drugs Tests before

Don't be silly Dave. The AFL and AFLPA have no control over drug testing for PEDs. It's all done through ASADA.

 

[regpies]

Remember when Beams and JMac were up for rape charges and the club wanted to keep their identity secret and were filthy when it got out?

This time they went out of their way to name the players and also haven't attempted to fight for them to continue to play until the B sample comes back.

Makes me think they are guilty, through intentional taking of the drug or by illicit drug use and the club knows it

 

[76woodenspooners]

Well, he is a SKOB after all.

 

[Wooljay]

Remember when Beams and JMac were up for rape charges and the club wanted to keep their identity secret and were filthy when it got out?

This time they went out of their way to name the players and also haven't attempted to fight for them to continue to play until the B sample comes back.

Makes me think they are guilty, through intentional taking of the drug or by illicit drug use and the club knows it

Would have looked really bad if they said "two players tested positive" because then the speculation would have been across all the players.

I'm glad they've named them, kills the speculation, is totally transparent and doesn't give oxygen to the flog journos out there.

Really well handled by everyone at the club.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Do the crime, do the time.

These players know the rules.

Imagine the cops raiding your house and busting you for being in possession of commercial quantities of cocaine.

All you did is go down to your local supermarket and buy a box of washing powder and bring it home. You had no idea that someone was smuggling cocaine into the country in a box of washing powder, somebody stuffed up and the box actually ended up on a supermarket shelf.

But no matter, you know the rules, you know that you're not allowed to have commercial quantities of cocaine in the house. You do the crime, you do the time

This has got so much more to play out. There are so many possible scenarios ranging from deliberate use by the players to the lab tech accidentally sneezing over the A sample ...

I want to defend them but i cant.

Nobody can defend the players apart from themselves, their legal representatives and any relevant witnesses. Doesn't mean we can't support them through this process. That's exactly what the club are doing.

HOWEVER, innocent until proven guily.

Indeed

 

[jmac70]

Great post. Says it all. Its also human nature to speculate, and try to find an explanation which gives us hope and makes us all feel better. But speculating on a public forum has other dangers, and I've heard more on here in the last 12 hours about JT and Keeffe, and what they may or may not have done, to last me a lifetime. Looks like we are in for a rough ride, at least for the next several weeks. Will Bucks ever get the monkey off his back?

I feel the same way as you VP. I know people are just trying to make sense of this but some of the theories put forward have been disgraceful.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Remember when Beams and JMac were up for rape charges and the club wanted to keep their identity secret and were filthy when it got out?

This time around other players who weren't involved were having the finger pointed at them, and I'm guessing that the AFLPA and Keeffe and Thomas wouldn't have wanted that,

This time they went out of their way to name the players and also haven't attempted to fight for them to continue to play until the B sample comes back.

There are clear AFL protocols how to deal with the current situation. The club are merely following the AFL protocols.

Makes me think they are guilty, through intentional taking of the drug or by illicit drug use and the club knows it

I truly believe the club when they say that they have NFI, and they clearly want to get access to the players so that they can understand more. The club don't appear to be presuming innocence or guilt.

 

[NT.Thunder]

My real concern here is that they live together and are good mates. I hope for them and the club that there is some reasonable explanation as to why and how this has occurred, but initially I feel this doesn't end well for anyone.

I'm supportive of the club and most supporters on here in just how we've handled this. I'm disappointed that a number of Essendon posters seem to be using this as a supportive measure for their own causes and still fail to grasp the reality of their own situation. There is no way we should be using this or these situation to prove governing bodies wrong but should be working closely with ensuring that we send a clear message that this isn't acceptable in professional sporting clubs or ever day society. I'm all for rehabilitation; however unless people lose something they love, whether that be their freedom, career, passion or whatever, the message doesn't sink in.

I'm happy we as a club support them through this time until the B-Sample is measured and unless an explanation comes forth, we sadly cut them from our list.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Imagine the cops raiding your house and busting you for being in possession of commercial quantities of cocaine.

All you did is go down to your local supermarket and buy a box of washing powder and bring it home. You had no idea that someone was smuggling cocaine into the country in a box of washing powder, somebody stuffed up and the box actually ended up on a supermarket shelf.

But no matter, you know the rules, you know that you're not allowed to have commercial quantities of cocaine in the house. You do the crime, you do the time

If the law said "You are responsible for what you have in your home" and the box of suds turned out to be cocaine then yes you broke the law
Just as the ASADA Code says to players "you are responsible for what goes into your body"

 

[Old navy]

Innocent until proven guilty i say! I hope they haven't done anything wrong no player should have to go thru this in their sporting careers. I would like to think that players know the risks and something has happened out of their control that has led to the positive test.

Good luck Thomas and Keefe!

At least the Pies and there supporter are showing some class. Well done Pies. No place in our game for drug cheats.
Something out of there control yeah. Wake Up mate

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Sorry to intrude but I think your club has handled a terrible situation very well IMVHO.

The most likely reason for the positive test must be that they took a recreational drug that was laced with clen. If that is the case, they could get a 50% reduction in their sentence if the B sample is also positive. However, they will have to confess to taking "party drugs".

 

[pieanitis]

At least the Pies and there supporter are showing some class. Well done Pies. No place in our game for drug cheats.
Something out of there control yeah. Wake Up mate

Why do you assume to know more than anyone else? Its true they could of intentionally consumed this banned substance, however its plausible a mistake has been made. Most people in this forum have said if its proven that Thomas and Keefe have systematically attempted to make gains through taking Clen, they need to go. If its a stupid mistake, its exactly that and although we'll be pisses off as supporters, ill be equally sympathetic to these two young men. If it was a mistake that was out of their control, ill be pissed off and shattered that these boys had to go through all of this. Time will tell which of the three it is, in the meantime, unlike yourself Im not pretending i know more than people who are directly involved in this process.