Tom Hawkins 350 games - What is his standing in the game?

[marcus1232]

Its unfair to compare him to the likes of N.Riewoldt, Pavlich and Richo as they played wildly different positions and were not genuine stay at home forwards

Among his peers J.Riewoldt, Kennedy to a lesser extent Tex he probably stands a touch above.
First ballot HoF career Carried Geelongs forward line the better part of a decade.

Not gonna compare him to buddy either that man was a unicorn.

 

[caveman72]

The irony for the Cats supporter is that Richos goal kicking accuracy was just a smidge worse than GASs was who also didnt even go at 60%.

Move along DH it's not about Richo or Ablett SR.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

A great of his era; short of all-time great key forwards of the Lockett, Dunstall, Hudson, Coleman, Pratt category; but certainly one of the top of his time.

 

[My Tilly]

The irony for the Cats supporter is that Richos goal kicking accuracy was just a smidge worse than GASs was who also didnt even go at 60%.

Only a 2.8 goal average for Richo too

 

[Fadge]

Standing in the game?

Comfortably ahead of J. Riewoldt.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Phenomenal consistency and longevity

For 12 seasons straight (2012 to 2023) he's kicked 45+ goals. That struck me as quite impressive so I ran the numbers

It's rare air. Only other players to have done it in league history are

• Buddy 2007 - 2018
• Coventry 1925 - 1937 (13 years)

Coventry obviously played in a very different era for individual goalkickers.

In terms of getting out on the park and getting the job done, year after year after year without fail, he's an all time great

It kind of fits with how I recall his career, at times over the years he's looked physically shot, but he's still found a way to get out there and contribute to Geelong's season.

 

[BennyGan]

Second best key forward in the modern era only to Buddy. He is also second all time in goal assists with 291 (Betts 318)

 

[BennyGan]

Phenomenal consistency and longevity

For 12 seasons straight (2012 to 2023) he's kicked 45+ goals. That struck me as quite impressive so I ran the numbers

It's rare air. Only other players to have done it in league history are

• Buddy 2007 - 2018
• Coventry 1925 - 1937 (13 years)

Coventry obviously played in a very different era for individual goalkickers.

In terms of getting out on the park and getting the job done, year after year after year without fail, he's an all time great

It kind of fits with how I recall his career, at times over the years he's looked physically shot, but he's still found a way to get out there and contribute to Geelong's season.

He had serious back issues which they thought were maybe gonna cut his career short but he was able to get it fixed and played even better footy post 30

 

[Lunchtime]

Second best key forward in the modern era only to Buddy. He is also second all time in goal assists with 291 (Betts 318)

I think he is in the same group as Jack Riewoldt and Josh Kennedy (no order). Franklin clearly is number 1, then these three I think are joint number 2. They can't be split.

 

[Mr Meow]

I think he is in the same group as Jack Riewoldt and Josh Kennedy (no order). Franklin clearly is number 1, then these three I think are joint number 2. They can't be split.

Hawkins averages more disposals, higher disposal efficiency, more contested possessions, contested marks, marks inside 50, ground ball gets, goal assists, score involvements, score launches, offensive 1v1 winning percentage and hitouts to advantage.

Kennedy had the edge in goals per game. He and Riewoldt tackled a bit more.

Hawkins stayed elite for longer. Kennedy with another 60 games would've had his goal average dip.

 

[Catsnlakers]

I think he is in the same group as Jack Riewoldt and Josh Kennedy (no order). Franklin clearly is number 1, then these three I think are joint number 2. They can't be split.

I think the goal assists are something that can be used to “split” the three, Hawkins is by far the most unselfish player of that trio. Soon enough (barring injury) he will reach 800 goals and 300 goal assists, that’s a stat that will most likely never be achieved again.

 

[Mr Meow]

I think the goal assists are something that can be used to “split” the three, Hawkins is by far the most unselfish player of that trio. Soon enough (barring injury) he will reach 800 goals and 300 goal assists, that’s a stat that will most likely never be achieved again.

Sadly we don't have the pre 2012 data but it's pretty likely Hawkins trails only Buddy for number of score involvements since he debuted too. And 0.8 of Buddy's extra score involvements per game (essentially the difference between the two) were just missed shots at goal.

 

[Tandy]

Second best key forward in the modern era only to Buddy. He is also second all time in goal assists with 291 (Betts 318)

Alot of these assists were Joe the goose goals too. Could have bagged atleast 100 of those

 

[Lana]

Geez which poor bastards are gonna chair him off?

I think this probably one of the few times Selwood would be thankful that he is retired

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

“Carlton” supporter joins this site a few days ago.
Posts numerous times that Tom Hawkins

26

Tom Hawkins

Age

35

Ht

197cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

2.1

5star

D

12.7

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.1

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

2.2

5star

is really no better than Jack Riewoldt.
I’m yet to see them post in a Carlton-related thread.

Hmmmm - I wonder….

 

[Mr Meow]

“Carlton” supporter joins this site a few days ago.
Posts numerous times that Tom Hawkins is really no better than Jack Riewoldt.
I’m yet to see them post in a Carlton-related thread.

Hmmmm - I wonder….

It could be that carblue guy (an alias of one of the deranged Tiger supporter) who literally started sh*tposting one weekend after saying he bet his posting style was different to Falcon.

There is always at least one new account really interested in these topics.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

It could be that carblue guy (an alias of one of the deranged Tiger supporter) who literally started sh*tposting one weekend after saying he bet his posting style was different to Falcon.

There is always at least one new account really interested in these topics.

It’s Maxwell Smart level subterfuge. And just as comical.

 

[PhatBoy]

Alot of these assists were Joe the goose goals too. Could have bagged atleast 100 of those

Watched JUH pluck that mark out of the air a foot from the goal line on full time on Sunday and thought it was the direct opposite of the Hawkins mantra. But who knows maybe at the same age Hawkins would have done the same thing, you learn as you grow.

 

[Lunchtime]

I think the goal assists are something that can be used to “split” the three, Hawkins is by far the most unselfish player of that trio. Soon enough (barring injury) he will reach 800 goals and 300 goal assists, that’s a stat that will most likely never be achieved again.

I'm not sure that a forward can be deemed "selfish" if they don't have a good Average per game for Goal Assists. I mean they are there to kick Goals.

As I said, when all things and factors and circumstances are considered, they are as good as each other, neither are miles ahead of each other.

One thing of importance that Kennedy and Riewoldt both have over Hawkins is that they both won multiple Coleman medals, it's a prestigious award - that does add a fair bit of weight when assessing these three players. But for me, as I said, they are all equal and can't be split.

 

[Mr Meow]

I'm not sure that a forward can be deemed "selfish" if they don't have a good Average per game for Goal Assists. I mean they are there to kick Goals.

As I said, when all things and factors and circumstances are considered, they are as good as each other, neither are miles ahead of each other.

One thing of importance that Kennedy and Riewoldt both have over Hawkins is that they both won multiple Coleman medals, it's a prestigious award - that does add a fair bit of weight when assessing these three players. But for me, as I said, they are all equal and can't be split.

Nah, having the edge in all of the statistical categories I mentioned counts for more and so does playing to a higher level for longer (when it is pretty close).

Hawkins has something like 100 more score involvements than Riewoldt since 2012 prior to 2024. That'll likely blow out to 200+ even if he retires this season.

 

[Lunchtime]

Nah, having the edge in all of the statistical categories I mentioned counts for more and so does playing to a higher level for longer (when it is pretty close).

Hawkins has something like 100 more score involvements than Riewoldt since 2012 prior to 2024. That'll likely blow out to 200+ even if he retires this season.

But why are you focusing on "since 2012"...you need to assess a players whole career from start to finish.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Geelong have comissioned a local sculptor to make a Hawkins statue for Market Square .... its not finished yet but its coming along nicely

 

[Lunchtime]

I think longevity counts for a lot when assessing players but more games means more opportunities, so for a forward that means more opportunities to kick goals. He will go past many players on the all time VFL/AFL goal kicking tally but he will do it by default because of the number of games he has played and will continue to play.

It doesn't make him bad or bring him down in my assessment. As I said I still stand by the notion that there is very very little between Jack, Tom or Josh. You could literally pull out a sword and try cutting a single strand of hair - good luck trying to cut it in half lol. It's honestly very very close between those 3. All champions in my book.

 

[Mr Meow]

But why are you focusing on "since 2012"...you need to assess a players whole career from start to finish.

Score involvement data isn't available from before then.

I still think it's notable that 2012-2023 Hawkins had about an extra score involvement per game.

Riewoldt started a bit better but Hawkins has pulled away the last few years, so a 12 year stretch of data is still relevant IMO.

 

[Mr Meow]

I think longevity counts for a lot when assessing players but more games means more opportunities, so for a forward that means more opportunities to kick goals. He will go past many players on the all time VFL/AFL goal kicking tally but he will do it by default because of the number of games he has played and will continue to play.

It doesn't make him bad or bring him down in my assessment. As I said I still stand by the notion that there is very very little between Jack, Tom or Josh. You could literally pull out a sword and try cutting a single strand of hair - good luck trying to cut it in half lol. It's honestly very very close between those 3. All champions in my book.

"By default" being in the best half a dozen full forwards in the game when you're 35 years old? After a broken back limited his athleticism greatly from a young age, no less.

Just like late career GAS padding his stats "by default" as an old guy who was still more than handy playing out of the square?

Lasting the distance of course puts you ahead when all other factors are pretty close. Hawkins was crucial in grand finals over a decade apart when the game was on the line. AA selections with a 11 season spread.

All are champions. There's not miles in it. But it's silly to dismiss arguments that could put one ahead of the other. Just like you said the Coleman medal difference was important. So is being better for longer.