Absolutely it's still relevant. For me though, it's not enough in my opinion for me to think "Hawkins is better than Riewoldt and Kennedy". The margins are close....very close. Splitting hairs stuff.
Tom Hawkins 350 games - What is his standing in the game?
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Absolutely it's still relevant. For me though, it's not enough in my opinion for me to think "Hawkins is better than Riewoldt and Kennedy". The margins are close....very close. Splitting hairs stuff.
I agree, but I reckon it's still very close as to who is better out of those 3. Can't split them.
Also, where did you find the stat for Score Involvements? I checked on the AFL Tables website and it has Goal Assists but nothing about Score Involvements. Can you put the link on here, I'd be keen to see the figures
If we looked at things from a statistical point of view:
-Total goals plus goal assists plus non-scoring shot score involvements (i.e removing behinds) would be the gold standard in assessing a forwards career output.
For careers 2006 onwards that puts Buddy as a clear 1, Hawkins as a clear 2 and Riewoldt a bit ahead of Kennedy.
Personally I think that's a fair ranking system but people are free to say large groups of players cannot be split if they wish.
I just think at times, sitting on the fence is not a bad option and to me it seems a tad unfair to split Tom, Jack and Josh. I guess out of respect to them I'm sitting on the fence. Not that they would care what we talk about here on Bigfooty lol
- Feb 12, 2017
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It's a topic Carboot feels very strongly about.
It's like trying to split Brian Lara and Sachin Tendulkar. Not sure if you follow cricket but both are all time great batsman. Trying to split them is extremely difficult. Obviously cricket is another sport and not the right topic to be talking about on this thread but I guess when comparing really great players in any sport.....gee it gets difficult lol.
His CV stacks up with the best. He’s a champion and a terrific bloke.
I don’t really care who is better, I wouldn’t trade him for any of the other possibilities his presence and contest is something you can build a successful side around. He is a champion of the game and another generation of Geelong legacy with his father being a champion of the club as well. Strong Smart and a real leader, also one of the nicest set shots to watch I’ve ever seen. Thanks Tom…. One more season please.
He’s trying very hard to stay in character. It’s fun to watch.
Used to have him well behind the likes of J Riewoldt and Kennedy and even players like Roughead and Walker. Those guys were just far more reliable goal kickers, and in my view, better and more ruthless competitors.
But the way Hawkins has grown as a player in his thirties as been nothing short of brilliant. I would now argue that he has passed all them with what he brings to the team as an all round player and leader. One of the smartest footy IQs in the game.
But the way Hawkins has grown as a player in his thirties as been nothing short of brilliant. I would now argue that he has passed all them with what he brings to the team as an all round player and leader. One of the smartest footy IQs in the game.
- Oct 19, 2020
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Overated for mine. Kicked more than 7 goals only once in 350 games , Lockett did that probably 50 times.
Was a good team player rather than a champion imo.
Was a good team player rather than a champion imo.
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It's not smart to give away all those 50m penalties though. Also was known for jumper punching little guys for a number of years.
Also he was dishonest in claiming that goal in the GF that hit the post, and that's why they brought in score review.
Pretty certain the score review system came in quite a number of years after that incident in 2009, so it is a bit of a stretch to say they brought it in because of him.
And what was he meant of do anyway? Run up and tell the goal umpire that he actually hit the post after it had been awarded a goal? When in the history of the game has a player done anything like that?
He does have a bit of a temper and is prone to the odd undisciplined act yes, but I don't see how these things detract from his career.
As someone who hates Geelong, he's a gun player and ageing well.
As a RFC fan I would compare him mostly to Riewoldt and J Kennedy. Jack obviously is much shorter and lighter in stature, whereas Kennedy is a similar size. Kennedy IMO is probably the best 'pure forward' but Jack & Hawk have probably had a much stronger impact on their team success in the goal assist aspect.
I would argue that Hawkins has played for a better team over his career then both of them and likely had better service from his midfield - he started in a premiership dynasty and has a much higher win % for his career at at 71% which would indicate his club has been better performed over a longer period of time. Jack and Kennedy have win % of approximately 51-53% each, so they have played for less successful teams over a prolonged period..
Riewoldt played 7 seasons before his club even made an EF and a full decade before premiership success. Richmond was downright garbage for the first half of his career but he still managed to flourish despite being significantly shorter and lighter.
Regardless we have been very fortunate to see all 3 play as 'hit up forwards' who lead well.
Franklin was a different sort of beast, also great to watch but played a very different forward game.
As a RFC fan I would compare him mostly to Riewoldt and J Kennedy. Jack obviously is much shorter and lighter in stature, whereas Kennedy is a similar size. Kennedy IMO is probably the best 'pure forward' but Jack & Hawk have probably had a much stronger impact on their team success in the goal assist aspect.
I would argue that Hawkins has played for a better team over his career then both of them and likely had better service from his midfield - he started in a premiership dynasty and has a much higher win % for his career at at 71% which would indicate his club has been better performed over a longer period of time. Jack and Kennedy have win % of approximately 51-53% each, so they have played for less successful teams over a prolonged period..
Riewoldt played 7 seasons before his club even made an EF and a full decade before premiership success. Richmond was downright garbage for the first half of his career but he still managed to flourish despite being significantly shorter and lighter.
Regardless we have been very fortunate to see all 3 play as 'hit up forwards' who lead well.
Franklin was a different sort of beast, also great to watch but played a very different forward game.
As opposed to, say, the Sharrod Wellingham poster two years later which, you know, was even more instrumental in bringing in the score review.
F**k me do they just pile all you idiots into the same complex until you all start to die of the same brain deterioration disease or something?
It started with Blaisee, then Smasha, Falcon got a HUUUUGE dose of whatever it was, now you??
You clearly have internet access. USE IT
- Feb 12, 2017
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This was back in 2013
Crazy that he's gone on not just to play for over a decade since, but put together career best football in his twilight years to surpass his contemparies in Riewoldt and Kennedy.
Would go Tommy, JK then Jack but all 3 are hall of famers for sure
yep, I think he enjoys giving off a goal more than kicking one. Always the first to get around the smalls when they kick one.
Just have to look at Jordan Clark's first goal for us.
Tom was through on goal with no opponent in sight and rather than kick the goal, he waited in the square for Jordan to run up for the handball
Tom had every right to kick it himself but preferred to let his young teammate have a special moment
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So now an old man is competing with young key forwards in their prime. Not sure how this lessens his achievements at all.
Don't like the bloke to be honest,
His eyes are too close together, so I don't trust him (may say more about me than him).
From all reports, he is a great guy, so I will take that over my uneducated opinion.
What I can say is that 350 games in and he is still going strong.
No matter what your bias is, he makes those around him and his team better and that is all you want from a player.
He could quite possibly be the most unselfish player I have seen (something a certain Melbourne player could learn from).
If he was in a Collingwood jumper, I would love him.
Well done Hawk, great career
His eyes are too close together, so I don't trust him (may say more about me than him).
From all reports, he is a great guy, so I will take that over my uneducated opinion.
What I can say is that 350 games in and he is still going strong.
No matter what your bias is, he makes those around him and his team better and that is all you want from a player.
He could quite possibly be the most unselfish player I have seen (something a certain Melbourne player could learn from).
If he was in a Collingwood jumper, I would love him.
Well done Hawk, great career
Watching some of the early highlights that have been doing the rounds, it was fun to be reminded of the time BT tried to invent a Pagans Paddock equivalent with “Hawkins Hectare”.
Still not the cringiest thing he’s ever said.
Still not the cringiest thing he’s ever said.
