News Tom Lynch - RFA, Captaincy Rescinded

[17er]

The thing about rolling over is that it should break an even deal , This situation is not even as the compo on its own is by far a better option than anything even remotely possible from Richmond - Its pick #3 not pick 20 like we would have got for Dusty or #19 Hawks got for Franklin
Its pick #3 for a player that barely been top 50 last 2 years but his potential at Richmond could be huge

As i mentioned on another thread if Lynch was not a free agent but just a player that wanted to leave he would be worth at most a top 5 pick + 2nd rounder or 2 x top 10 picks with a 2nd coming back as treloar got even Chris Judd in his prime was traded for a #3 + Unknown KPP (which luckily turned out to be a gun) and Lynch is no Franklin,Dusty,Judd or Dangerfield.

Graham has played every game since he has been available he didnt play early days due to being injured, I wouldnt trade him for #15 now
The kid is a true leader in the Cotchin mould.

Last year we wouldnt have matche the $1.5 mil deal north offered Dusty even though we easily could have as you dont want to keep a player that just does not want to be at your club and Suns wont match either side deal or no side deal i think the suns have moved on and just want to make sure #3 is what they do actually get and the Richmond offer gets them that

Judd was traded for Kennedy and picks #3 and #20, with #46 going to Carlton. Kennedy turned out to be a star, Chris Masten is a middling workhorse and Tony Notte played 2 games, while Carlton picked up Dennis Armfield in their 3rd round after thought. Lynch would be worth Richmond's first and second round picks in 2019 and 2020 unless the Tigers offered up a player to significantly reduce that cost. So you don't want to give up Jack Graham. Who would? I'd say you could halve the price in picks and potentially even be able to make one of them a future pick for him, but can you at least offer a player who would walk into the Suns Top 22 and be a contributor from day one that would satisfy the Suns enough to accept a late 1st and late 2nd worth pick #8 equivalent?

 

[THE_GUN]

Judd was traded for Kennedy and picks #3 and #20, with #46 going to Carlton. Kennedy turned out to be a star, Chris Masten is a middling workhorse and Tony Notte played 2 games, while Carlton picked up Dennis Armfield in their 3rd round after thought. Lynch would be worth Richmond's first and second round picks in 2019 and 2020 unless the Tigers offered up a player to significantly reduce that cost. So you don't want to give up Jack Graham. Who would? I'd say you could halve the price in picks and potentially even be able to make one of them a future pick for him, but can you at least offer a player who would walk into the Suns Top 22 and be a contributor from day one that would satisfy the Suns enough to accept a late 1st and late 2nd worth pick #8 equivalent?

There are many options with the 'Side' deal scenario but the side deal needs to be exactly that a deal that doesnt hurt your team
Richmond list is unique in that we have 4-5 top end talent all contracted long term then we have roughly 15 players that are the blood and bones of the club whilst are good at richmond would probably not be so good els where and trying to move these players would interfere with the fabric of the club then you get into the fringe and 1st year players as well as rookie players.

Wont be traded
e.g - Martin , Riewoldt , Rance , Cotchin , Prestia , Rioli , Vlastuin , Grimes , Short , Astbury , Graham , Higgins , Caddy , Nankervis , Edwards , Lambert

Could be traded but not really much value and or are only any good in the richmond structure
Butler , Castagna , McIntosh , B.Ellis , Conca , Broad

Too Old for any trade value
Grigg , Houli

Rookie and 1st year players with no value or similar you could get in the draft with late picks
Moore , Balta , Coleman-Jones , Soldo , Naish ,Stengle , Chol , Bolton

Fringe players expendable
Miles , Lloyd , Townsend , C.Ellis , Markov , Menadue , Drummond

Really cant see which players Suns could want or need as you have better players on your list that could be included

 

[gcsunsfc]

There are many options with the 'Side' deal scenario but the side deal needs to be exactly that a deal that doesnt hurt your team
Richmond list is unique in that we have 4-5 top end talent all contracted long term then we have roughly 15 players that are the blood and bones of the club whilst are good at richmond would probably not be so good els where and trying to move these players would interfere with the fabric of the club then you get into the fringe and 1st year players as well as rookie players.

Wont be traded
e.g - Martin , Riewoldt , Rance , Cotchin , Prestia , Rioli , Vlastuin , Grimes , Short , Astbury , Graham , Higgins , Caddy , Nankervis , Edwards , Lambert

Could be traded but not really much value and or are only any good in the richmond structure
Butler , Castagna , McIntosh , B.Ellis , Conca , Broad

Too Old for any trade value
Grigg , Houli

Rookie and 1st year players with no value or similar you could get in the draft with late picks
Moore , Balta , Coleman-Jones , Soldo , Naish ,Stengle , Chol , Bolton

Fringe players expendable
Miles , Lloyd , Townsend , C.Ellis , Markov , Menadue , Drummond

Really cant see which players Suns could want or need as you have better players on your list that could be included

The issue I see with the concept is the idea is a side deal in theory is where we pay significant unders for another player so you can have lynch for free other than the opportunity cost of his cap space.

Giving us players that are worth a late draft pick... for a late draft pick isn’t really a deal that’s enticing enough for us to say ok, you gave us a guy who is borderline afl worthy. We won’t match lynch now.

Ps. What makes you say Brandon Ellis or dan butler aren’t much value or are only good in a Richmond structure. Given our pressure forward has been Sean lemmens who gives away 3 free kicks a game and kicked about 5 goals all year I’d say butler would certainly have value to us.

 

[gcsunsfc]

More on butler
- 2 goals/goal assists per game
-1.5 inside 50 tackles per game

Obviously would be different on the suns but brings aspect we need - decent small forward.

Him for and 2019 Richmond 5th round for 2018 gc 4th round for example.

I think that’s a better ‘side’ deal that actually provides us something genuinely useful.

 

[cakewalk06]

Geez, you Suns folks had better hope this deal does not drag out too long... the way this Tigers guy is talking, you might have to give up Jack Martin for Conca and C. Ellis just to get Richmond to take Tom Lynch off your hands...

 

[17er]

Geez, you Suns folks had better hope this deal does not drag out too long... the way this Tigers guy is talking, you might have to give up Jack Martin for Conca and C. Ellis just to get Richmond to take Tom Lynch off your hands...

That's uncalled for, mate. The_Gun has always been respectful and understands the different opinions of resident supporters pretty well. He is being asked his opinion on all different sides in the debate and the only person he's had issues with lately is you. What exactly are you contributing to this conversation again?

 

[Peel67skin]

THE_GUN actually quite reasonable , no need to attack him this way .

 

[Iva Bigun]

That's uncalled for, mate. The_Gun has always been respectful and understands the different opinions of resident supporters pretty well. He is being asked his opinion on all different sides in the debate and the only person he's had issues with lately is you. What exactly are you contributing to this conversation again?

Agree. I don’t like what he is trying to sell us on but he has been respectful in doing it

 

[SandyToes]

Agree. I don’t like what he is trying to sell us on but he has been respectful in doing it

He's like that nice young vacuum cleaner salesman.Got his foot in the door and he's not leaving until we buy what he's selling!
Maybe he WILL convince us to trade our high end Dyson for a coupla broken down Electroluxes

 

[Lord_Flashheart]

The way I look at it from Dew Interview , I think Miles could be on his way to GC ,but no guarantee best 22 spot , as usual every players need to fight their way in, whether been more versatile or doing better than other in his prefer position .

If Lemmens is getting a spot, Miles is getting a spot

 

[17er]

He's like that nice young vacuum cleaner salesman.Got his foot in the door and he's not leaving until we buy what he's selling!
Maybe he WILL convince us to trade our high end Dyson for a coupla broken down Electroluxes

I think he wants our broken down, over-rated Dyson, but instead of paying for it he is offering the bagless Kmart version with 60 minutes of suction (or something).

 

[DontArgue4]

Geez, you Suns folks had better hope this deal does not drag out too long... the way this Tigers guy is talking, you might have to give up Jack Martin for Conca and C. Ellis just to get Richmond to take Tom Lynch off your hands...

id really love to see the s**t youd be posting if he nominated the pies

"take the compo, why wouldnt you?! pick 3 is awesome!!!.... his knee is cooked anyway so this is huge for you guys!!!"

 

[17er]

id really love to see the s**t youd be posting if he nominated the pies

"take the compo, why wouldnt you?! pick 3 is awesome!!!.... his knee is cooked anyway so this is huge for you guys!!!"

I think the whole point of the exercise with this thread is that nothing has officially happened yet. Stuart Dew confirmed yesterday that Tom Lynch hasn't officially nominated a club, no offer amount or any other paperwork that must be lodged with the Suns has even come close to being lodged.

The media has nominated Richmond by proxy with a lot spin and leaks, so we have no real reason to believe otherwise, especially with Collingwood and Hawthorn saying they've been told they aren't his first choice. The inept reporting and glaring bias of the media is just astounding given they've been told in no uncertain terms by Dew and Evans that nothing has been decided because it is all conjecture at this stage.

Check out this quote from news.com.au 7 days ago "His move back to Victoria means he’ll be earning less money than he could have racked in had he of stayed with the struggling Suns." This is the standard of journalism we are expected to read and believe? No thanks.

If you read through this thread you'll see the gamut of fans opinions and emotions, but I'll summarise it for you:
- Lynch had 1 good season, in 2016
- Lynch has a girlfriend from the Gold Coast (WTF?)
- Lynch has had surgery on his posterior cruciate ligament (PCL) Grant Birchall had the same surgery 13 months ago and he is playing for Box Hill now
- Lynch is a spoilt manchild

Sure, there were some nice things said about him too, but I don't like him and I don't want to say anything nice about him. The reality here is that the AFL's offer of pick #3 is inadequate and that Richmond's financial offer doesn't look like it is going to come even close to what the Suns have been paying him and he can wave bye bye to his ambassador money. Matching the offer remains very much in play and Richmond are going to have to come up with better than a rubbish "side deal" if they want our best player. Tom Lynch might even end up playing for the Suns next year...

 

[THE_GUN]

The issue I see with the concept is the idea is a side deal in theory is where we pay significant unders for another player so you can have lynch for free other than the opportunity cost of his cap space.

Giving us players that are worth a late draft pick... for a late draft pick isn’t really a deal that’s enticing enough for us to say ok, you gave us a guy who is borderline afl worthy. We won’t match lynch now.

Ps. What makes you say Brandon Ellis or dan butler aren’t much value or are only good in a Richmond structure. Given our pressure forward has been Sean lemmens who gives away 3 free kicks a game and kicked about 5 goals all year I’d say butler would certainly have value to us.

The thing is that Tom Lynch is a restricted free agent that is leaving and the suns need to make the most of a situation that is not ideal
You either match or let him go and ideally you would have liked him to select the saints so matching would have been a no brainer but he didnt he goes to richmond and the suns would need to look at what they could get from richmond that could get the deal done and compare it to the compo
The compo wins hands down by a fair margin

Dont believe i have heard 1 football person say the matching is a better deal for the suns

Brandon Ellis will be a free agent next year and will have his options to leave and get good coin and go to the club of his choice, Richmond will probably get a band 2 for him and he will get to the club of his choice the suns would need to offer him very good coin to leave and go north but he is not that crash hot and similar issue's to hall with limited defensive aspects to his game

 

[jc37]

I think GC has to be the 1st club to match the offer if it is less than what he was on or not much more even if it means getting a worst deal than what pick 3 might bring.
The problem is GC like GWS lose a 1st rounder every year. This is your first free agent who only happens to be your 25 year old AA captain and potential 50-60 a year goal kicker and he is rumoured to be leaving for less money than you paid him this year and 500-700k less than what you offered him and on top of this clubs have worked over a year to get him as a free agent. If you match and make Richmond trade you make a statement that try poach our players and we will make you pay. If you just accept pick 3 chances are that player will look to be poached back in 3-4 years time anyway. the matching wont stop poaching but it will make clubs wary of what to expect.
To me Lynch owes GC he has been over paid like many at the club (he certainly isnt a Nathan Jones which clubs souls are built on).
Very least I would be wanting 2 1st rounders with this years falling in around the 10 mark and 1-2 players.

It is a hard decision for GC pick 3 best player now or numerous picks that will be better for depth and make a statement

 

[Suns of Anarchy]

Get rid of restricted free agency. It’s a complete waste of time.
Player decides he wants to leave and his club can match it and ‘force’ him to stay against his wishes. Great.

 

[Iva Bigun]

Get rid of restricted free agency. It’s a complete waste of time.
Player decides he wants to leave and his club can match it and ‘force’ him to stay against his wishes. Great.

Its another mechanism that works in the top clubs favour. If you are at the top of the ladder it’s an easy decision to match as the compo is poor. For us it’s a big decision

1. match and potentially keep a player that wants to leave ( can’t see it happening)
2. Take the compo and spend a couple of years building up a kid that will then Want to go home to mummy
3. force a trade and make them gut their premiership side to get us picks that will also likely want to go home to mummy

I lean towards 3 as it makes the tigers hurt

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Its another mechanism that works in the top clubs favour. If you are at the top of the ladder it’s an easy decision to match as the compo is poor. For us it’s a big decision

1. match and potentially keep a player that wants to leave ( can’t see it happening)
2. Take the compo and spend a couple of years building up a kid that will then Want to go home to mummy
3. force a trade and make them gut their premiership side to get us picks that will also likely want to go home to mummy

I lean towards 3 as it makes the tigers hurt

Try to use your imagination. You don't have to use pick 3 on another kid. You could get two very good experienced players if you dangle pick 3 as a tradeable pick. The top teams would kill for pick 3 in this draft. Doing that will net you better than anything Richmond would be prepared to offer. Stop trying to think on how you can punish the club Lynch will nominate and start thinking about the best way you can improve your own club. After all, that's the only way you will improve.

 

[Sunraysia]

Try to use your imagination. You don't have to use pick 3 on another kid. You could get two very good experienced players if you dangle pick 3 as a tradeable pick. The top teams would kill for pick 3 in this draft. Doing that will net you better than anything Richmond would be prepared to offer. Stop trying to think on how you can punish the club Lynch will nominate and start thinking about the best way you can improve your own club. After all, that's the only way you will improve.

While you still get him for sweet FA.... ( not Free Agency by the way !)
Sound advice - can see where your coming from ….

 

[Ancient Tiger]

While you still get him for sweet FA.... ( not Free Agency by the way !)
Sound advice - can see where your coming from ….

So you just want to punish us for following the rules and you'd rather get a worse deal for your own club in doing so?
Sorry but that is ridiculous. You should have asked for Geelong's first rounder this year for trading Ablett under contract If you wanted to make a stand and get the best for your club.

 

[THE_GUN]

Its another mechanism that works in the top clubs favour. If you are at the top of the ladder it’s an easy decision to match as the compo is poor. For us it’s a big decision

1. match and potentially keep a player that wants to leave ( can’t see it happening)
2. Take the compo and spend a couple of years building up a kid that will then Want to go home to mummy
3. force a trade and make them gut their premiership side to get us picks that will also likely want to go home to mummy

I lean towards 3 as it makes the tigers hurt

From what we have been discussing the last 2 days and Gold Coast suns apparent salary cap issue's ,does the suns have the ability to match ?

 

[Jirik13]

From what we have been discussing the last 2 days and Gold Coast suns apparent salary cap issue's ,does the suns have the ability to match ?

This salary cap issue talk is ridiculous. We talk about 600K difference between min 95% that has to be spent and 100% cap. Suns had the youngest list so of course some young players have to be overpaid plus yes to keep them on GC.

You would probably agree that Suns planned for Lynch salary to be part of 2019 TPP. Conservatively that would be min 1M plus delisted players salaries and you already have 2M. So TPP drops already to 85%. Yes, some salary increases, but more players will probably go too. Also I don't know this year but Suns actually never spent 100% cap in the past according to Cochrane as Suns were not allowed by AFL (supposedly it hurt Suns when they tried to convince Howe to join them rather than Collingwood in 20015).

Besides pure speculations by press Dew in his AW interview this week was asked if Suns can match the offer. He chuckled and said 'it depends'. Complementary question was if the offer would be Lynch's current salary and Dew confirmed it.

 

[SandyToes]

So you just want to punish us for following the rules and you'd rather get a worse deal for your own club in doing so?
Sorry but that is ridiculous. You should have asked for Geelong's first rounder this year for trading Ablett under contract If you wanted to make a stand and get the best for your club.

Yep
Pretty much need to send a message to a Club with a 100,000 members that spends its time bullying everyone else
So please don't offer any self serving opinions on this board again
If you failed basic comprehension at school(which as a Richmond supporter is higher likely) the footnote is
* off

 

[TigerTime88]

I can see Gold Coast playing the game on potentially matching for a few days only to back flip and take the pick 3. The stuff that has come from Cochrane and Dew to me sounds like they have already decided to take the compo. Stuart Dew will want to create his own team and bringing two gun kids in this year will go a long way to helping him do that. Your recruiters would already have a hard on for two of the top three picks and will be froffing at the mouth to get them down. Would love to see GC sign them for an extra three years straight after the draft to allow you time to build something.

I think where you will play hard ball is the May trade. I think GC should and will ask for two first rounders for your contracted captain. Not saying he is worth that but if he is going to leave next year you will get a top five pick so why accept less now.

Miles to GC won't be a side deal as Richmond will trade him anyway to give him seniors opportunity for a back end pick.

Think the above is common sense and we can theorise about side deals ect all we like but common sense will generally win out.

 

[Iva Bigun]

Try to use your imagination. You don't have to use pick 3 on another kid. You could get two very good experienced players if you dangle pick 3 as a tradeable pick. The top teams would kill for pick 3 in this draft. Doing that will net you better than anything Richmond would be prepared to offer. Stop trying to think on how you can punish the club Lynch will nominate and start thinking about the best way you can improve your own club. After all, that's the only way you will improve.

Advice from a member of a club that has been a rabble for 36 years before winning a Bradbury premiership.

And how would you know what Richmond are prepared to offer? They have been into him for years and won’t let him go now, trade 3 of your premiership stars and get us a top 5 pick and next years first. Enough imagination for you ?