Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[doggies ftw]

More seriously, at risk of getting burnt at the stake, if we end up with a pick after the top 3-4 legitimate talls are gone, I think we need to look long and hard at Angus Brayshaw.

For those that don't know, he's an inside ball magnet that can go forward and have an impact. Yeah, yeah, we have heaps of inside midfielders, but let me explain.

Smith, Hrovat, Prudden and the like are all good prospects, and all are capable of racking up the touches and having an impact. But how many of them can literally dive into a pack and come out with the ball nine times out of ten? Libba is basically the only player with this level of ferocity on our list, Boyd aside. With Libba well and truly accounted for today we had no support inside apart from Boyd. We had a lot of 'floaters' that can win the ball in a contest but can't be relied on to consistently get the ball out of heavily contested situations. Part of this is work rate, but I personally believe we need more coverage inside.

While we're all ready to claim Libba as the greatest thing since sliced bread, he is at the moment a very one-dimensional footballer. This makes it exceptionally hard to break tags as we saw tonight. He needs support for mine, and this is not going to come from an inside-outside part runner, part ball-winner combo.

I think Smith and from what I've heard of Prudden (still haven't seen him live!), can be those guys in time. Stringer should probably be pretty capable inside a contest too, Honey sounds very promising, like others have said Wally looked like he would have that ability too although he might have stalled a bit and who knows he just might not make it (although he's obviously playing a different role and I still have faith that he will be fine when/if he goes back to playing his natural inside role, I'm starting to feel he just might be a bit limited and wont ever become the player I expected, but hey 100s of guys have forged out a good, decorated career from less talent) Griff will be around for a long time yet, Bonts/Hrovat/Stevens/Dahl/Macrae and the like will all chip in regularly with clearances. I just think were fine in this area tbh, not saying another quality mid would be a bad thing at all but unless he is really that far ahead of the next best I wouldn't be too happy with using a pick on him, its just time to start developing some absolute A graders at both ends of the ground. I really like the way were building the midfield so that there are so many options and everybody will chip in and do the part, obviously some more than others like Libba, but in the future if Libba cant win the ball, there will be so many others that can when needed.

 

[fronkalicious]

I fear when Murphy retires. He is just a rock down back, defensively and offensively. Can't see JJ being a top 4 side half back. Howard bust, Fuller will be depth at best. I wonder if Hrovat could play back, got a little speed, got the skills, too small maybe. I don't want Higgins being the number 1 half back in our side. It limits us and himself to play elsewhere.

KPF
Quickness
Half Back
3rd Tall backman

I think talia can be a 3rd tall if need be. And if not, wood and young have a chance to grab that role. Young has been butchered at selection so far this year. Wood was in the first 2 rounds, and bugger me if he hasn't found good form since being matched up on medium forwards instead of key forwards. Our game day match ups continue to be a real weakness of this club. Must improve. It's costing us games and hurting the development of some players.

 

[Super Hans]

There's a half back up at GWS in Buntine not getting a game. Should go for him.

 

[Wizard17]

Looks like Zaine Cordy could be our saving grace if he is as good as some have been saying..... Hopefully he only goes second or third round and we can go after a CHB and someone with pace and skill.

 

[VitalDread]

Looks like Zaine Cordy could be our saving grace if he is as good as some have been saying..... Hopefully he only goes second or third round and we can go after a CHB and someone with pace and skill.

Could be the next bob

 

[Wizard17]

I know it is early but has anyone seen people in the State Leagues that may be worth a rookie spot?
Apparantly Anastasio has kicked two bags of four goals so far this year...

 

[paulveed]

I know it is early but has anyone seen people in the State Leagues that may be worth a rookie spot?
Apparantly Anastasio has kicked two bags of four goals so far this year...

Have seen quite a bit of 'Little Red". He has pace and goal sense, but he is tiny, and we have no shortage of potential small forwards already.
He reminds me a lot of Nahas when he was running around in the VFL regularly.
I could not see him meeting BMac's requirement to be a complete and flexible player, or running about in an AFL midfield sadly.

 

[BRWB]

Early list management thoughts:

Delistings:

• The Rookies, except Jong
• Gia
• Howard
• Goodes

Iffy

• Pearce
• Fletcher Roberts

Cordy and Fuller could be looked at getting released a year early but they probably won't be..

Prediction on what will happen:

• We will pick best available tall player in draft, there seems around four to six to choose from so we should get one
• We will pick up Z Cordy with our 2nd pick after Saints force us to
• Jong will get an upgrade
• Trade wise, our options will be limited on who we will trade that is marketable, so I doubt much will happen.
• We may pick up another GWS delistee or out of contract player
• We will rookie draft a long term development ruck
• We may pick another ruck back up if Cordy/Campbell go or don't kick on
• We will talk up getting a Jasksch or Tomlinson but won't because Bris, Saints, Blues or Melbourne will trump us, or GWS will retain them

Ideas:

• We go after B Gibbs to replace Murph because JJ, Pearce, Howard and Fuller didn't work out as half backs (but we won't because we are too conservative and he'll either stay or go to SA)
• We go after Frawley (but we won't get him because we are too conservative and worry he'll cost too much, Saints or Blues will throw the sink at him, as should Port, Adelaide and Freo)
• We offer up one young player with some potential, say JJ or Hrovat for example, and our 1st round pick to Melb for their first round pick and something to get a better tall player in the draft (but we won't because we rarely trade younger players)

In short Gibbs and Frawley address glaring list deficiencies (good user off half back to replace/complement Murph, good KPD to replace/complement Morris) and it is probably time we started to take advantage of the Free Agent rules as players we pick now will be around when we are peaking.

And we should be doing what we can to draft the best KPF possible as we simply need one if we are to compete for a premiership in a few years.

 

[_M_16_]

Perhaps this is the guy we need most in this upcoming draft? Good defenders can be plucked from anywhere and deep. This guy is a ruckman who can pinch hit in the forward line, will compliment Will Minson perfectly. Can fill in two roles/needs with one pick. We may not finish low enough for him though, and may have to trade up for him.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/peter-wright.1057938/

 

[AjsGuns]

Perhaps this is the guy we need most in this upcoming draft? Good defenders can be plucked from anywhere and deep. This guy is a ruckman who can pinch hit in the forward line, will compliment Will Minson perfectly. Can fill in two roles/needs with one pick. We may not finish low enough for him though, and may have to trade up for him.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/peter-wright.1057938/

He will be gone at our pick (assuming our pick is 4+), Seems most rate him as the consensus number #1 pick however Wright, McCartin and Durdin are the three clear standouts atm and very little separation then you got Goddard (KPP) and Brayshaw (Mid) rounding out the top 5 at this stage imo. Would personally take Durdin over anyone else for our team, he is the best kick of the KPP's and can play key back or key fwd but would be stoked with any of Durdin/Wright/McCartin.

 

[Zgope1]

this draft year reminds me of 2004 a bit. little wins here and there during the season will have big implications in years to come for the teams at the ladder's bottom. having said that there's a fair way to go for this whole draft class. can't wait til the champs

 

[footyfan000001]

I think Libba is a Superstar and is only going to get better - but gee wiz he got found out on Sunday. Needs to add another dimension to his game that doesn't solely reply on being a clearance machine. He couldn't get near it on Sunday and Curnow did a super job, but where could Macca move him? The only place you could consider is maybe a forward pocket and play him deep but I just can't see that bothering Curnow. Does he need to add another dimension to his game or does he just need to learn how to beat a tagger?

Same goes for Wallis - he got belted by Murphy - but then the commentators were jumping on him saying there is no real other position for him. Can he play as a back pocket OR as a small defensive forward? Could have been handy on a Walker or Simpson.

Thoughts?

 

[Zgope1]

I think Libba is a Superstar and is only going to get better - but gee wiz he got found out on Sunday. Needs to add another dimension to his game that doesn't solely reply on being a clearance machine. He couldn't get near it on Sunday and Curnow did a super job, but where could Macca move him? The only place you could consider is maybe a forward pocket and play him deep but I just can't see that bothering Curnow. Does he need to add another dimension to his game or does he just need to learn how to beat a tagger?

Same goes for Wallis - he got belted by Murphy - but then the commentators were jumping on him saying there is no real other position for him. Can he play as a back pocket OR as a small defensive forward? Could have been handy on a Walker or Simpson.

Thoughts?

my thoughts are that umpires will start paying attention to people tagging him and giving him free kicks. he was a free hit because umps would've been griff conscio- wait no they weren't. as usual they only paid attention to the players our taggers were on

 

[GrandBlue]

I think Libba is a Superstar and is only going to get better - but gee wiz he got found out on Sunday. Needs to add another dimension to his game that doesn't solely reply on being a clearance machine. He couldn't get near it on Sunday and Curnow did a super job, but where could Macca move him? The only place you could consider is maybe a forward pocket and play him deep but I just can't see that bothering Curnow. Does he need to add another dimension to his game or does he just need to learn how to beat a tagger?

He does have another dimension to his game; he's able to hit targets in space whilst in congestion ala Sam Mitchell & he's only going to get better at doing that over time. He also makes a very solid, consistent defensive contribution.

If he gets tagged then so be it; takes the attention off Griffen who's an even more damaging player, but wasn't at full fitness on Sunday.

 

[GrandBlue]

On another note, can we get a thread like this for the Bulldogs?:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/gws-players-contract-status.1008964/

 

[Igloo]

On another note, can we get a thread like this for the Bulldogs?:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/gws-players-contract-status.1008964/

We have this one, but not sure if it's been updated.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/current-contract-lengths.967859/

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Not to mention Libba is our number 1 'flag waver' when one of his teammates is unjustly dealt with.

Its something that isn't recorded on a stats sheet, but it carries more weight with me than many of other stats that the game generates.

 

[GrandBlue]

We have this one, but not sure if it's been updated.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/current-contract-lengths.967859/

Cheers.

Fingers crossed Clay Smith gets some game time this season to earn himself another contract. Could use another extractor right about now as well.

 

[paulveed]

I think Libba is a Superstar and is only going to get better - but gee wiz he got found out on Sunday. Needs to add another dimension to his game that doesn't solely reply on being a clearance machine. He couldn't get near it on Sunday and Curnow did a super job, but where could Macca move him? The only place you could consider is maybe a forward pocket and play him deep but I just can't see that bothering Curnow. Does he need to add another dimension to his game or does he just need to learn how to beat a tagger?

Same goes for Wallis - he got belted by Murphy - but then the commentators were jumping on him saying there is no real other position for him. Can he play as a back pocket OR as a small defensive forward? Could have been handy on a Walker or Simpson.

Thoughts?

No doubt Libba is going to have to learn how to cope with a tag. In the modern game, this is something all quality mids are going to have to learn. I think moving Libba out of the guts to dislodge his tag is only a win for the opposing coach.

As a team I think we can certainly take one lesson from how Carlton played. Our other players need to make life hell for the blokes tagging your star mids.
Wal was constantly blocked,scragged and or knocked from pillar to post by other opposition players at every opportunity, to help free up Murphy. We need to learn how to do the same a hell of a lot better than we do at present. At stoppages there was often another player trying to 'get on to' Wal as a distraction to free up Murphy, before chasing down their own opponent once Murphy was loose.

 

[Wizard17]

Have seen quite a bit of 'Little Red". He has pace and goal sense, but he is tiny, and we have no shortage of potential small forwards already.
He reminds me a lot of Nahas when he was running around in the VFL regularly.
I could not see him meeting BMac's requirement to be a complete and flexible player, or running about in an AFL midfield sadly

I have always watched the VFL on the TV so sometimes you notice people and think who's that. (especially with Port Melbourne) It is early now but hopefully some of the kids that missed the draft last year or the year before will pop their heads up. Personally I think we need another leader through the middle of the ground so I'm looking out for someone like that who'd make the transition to AFL.

 

[Trent85]

GrandBlue here's an updated list

Out of contract
Robert Murphy (2014)
Matthew Boyd (2014)
Shaun Higgins (2014)
Easton Wood (2014)
Tom Williams (2014)
Daniel Giansiracusa (2014)
Clay Smith (2014)
Jason Tutt (Contract Extended in 2011) 2014
Tutt's contract expires at the end of next year, but McCartney hinted he was already planning for him to sign a longer-term deal.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/afl...artneys-premiership-plans-20131113-2xh9p.html

Liam Jones (Contract Extended in 2011)
Daniel Pearce (2014)
Will Minson (2014) 2016 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-...ct-with-western-bulldogs-through-to-e/5168816
Tory Dickson (2014)
Christian Howard (2014)
Dale Morris (2014)
Koby Stevens (2014)
Tom Young (2014)
Lachlan Hunter (2014) 2016 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-the-end-of-2016/story-fni5fazt-1226788916412
Jason Johannisen (2014)

Edit
Brett Goodes 2014
The coaches and list manager Jason McCartney assured him another one-year deal would be offered
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/brett-goodes-a-man-all-about-the-greater-good-20140201-31ty7.html

 

[Clay]

GrandBlue here's an updated list

Out of contract
Robert Murphy (2014) + 2 years
Matthew Boyd (2014) + 1
Shaun Higgins (2014) + 2
Easton Wood (2014) + 3
Tom Williams (2014) + 1
Daniel Giansiracusa (2014) + coach
Clay Smith (2014) + 2 (3 if no questions remain over his recovery)
Jason Tutt (Contract Extended in 2011) 2014 + 2
Tutt's contract expires at the end of next year, but McCartney hinted he was already planning for him to sign a longer-term deal.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/afl...artneys-premiership-plans-20131113-2xh9p.html

Liam Jones (Contract Extended in 2011) + 2
Daniel Pearce (2014) delist
Will Minson (2014) 2016 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-...ct-with-western-bulldogs-through-to-e/5168816
Tory Dickson (2014) + 2
Christian Howard (2014) delist
Dale Morris (2014) + 1 (2 if he wants it)
Koby Stevens (2014) + 2
Tom Young (2014) + 2
Lachlan Hunter (2014) 2016 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-the-end-of-2016/story-fni5fazt-1226788916412
Jason Johannisen (2014) + 2

My initial list management thoughts above.

 

[Dav1d]

My initial list management thoughts above.

I think we'll show some faith with Pearce
Definitely Howard is a goner though and wondering if any clubs will be look at targeting Higgins come the end of the year

 

[VitalDread]

Almost everyone on that list will get a contract extension at the end of the season.

 

[Mofra]

Could be the next bob

Zaine gets nowhere near the ball many other rebounders get - I'm concerned about us spending much on a kid who struggles to find the ball.