Roast We need to move past this idea we are a young side

[St Kilda Death]

I cant move past the fact that we are a young side

Ill move past it in 3 years.
When they're not so young anymore.

 

[Persevering Saint]

I cant move past the fact that we are a young side

Lol, cheeky bugger.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

This is why we are not an instant re-build :
2004: NOTHING ( could have kept Gwilt, but neither here nor there ).
2005: Only Gilbert
2006: Only Armitage and Geary. That makes it pretty much our best year of drafting since 2001.
2007: Dempster and Steven. Both very important players.
2008: Nothing
2009: Nothing
2010: Tom Curren , depth at best ( could be nothing by this time next year ).

By now we were looking like Essendon 2016 without having the luxury of having players returning from suspension.
No this is not hindsight, i remember looking at us topping up with players like Gamble and Polo and seeing it like a car accident in slow motion.
We have retained only 6 players from 7 years of drafting, and most of them are not superstars.
More speculative now we can only hope that some of them will be long term players, remembering at the time that our list was retiring faster than we could replace it.

2011: Ross , Newnes, Webster. ( Shenton , Minchington ).
2012: Roberton, Hickey, ( Wright , Lee, Murdoch, Saunders , Pierce ). With no backup for McEvoy, Hickey was a strategic choice.
2013: Savage, Longer, Bruce, Billings, Dunstan, Weller, ( Delaney , Acres, Templeton, Holmes) . Bruce, good/lucky drafting. Have a shot , you may find gold. Some GOP's there maybe ( Savage /Weller ) but we needed them.
In 5 years time I would hope/expect that we have at least 10 of those players on our list.
That's WAY more than we got in the previous drafting period. What we did in 2001/2002 was bullshit, you cannot plan to pick up a team full of guns in two seasons. 2001 was a freak. To me the rebuilding of the spine of our team between 2011 and 2013 has been remarkable.

2014: (Membrey, McCartin, Goddard, Lonie, Sinclair , Payne).
2015: Carlisle , (Freeman, Gresham, White, Rice, O Kearny, Coughlan )

So we've grabbed Carlisle, but we haven't picked up too many GOP's from trades and stuff now. Players like McCartin and Goddard are longer term developments, so it made sense to grab them earlier in our rebuild.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Same exercise just for fun.

2004. Nothing
2005. Nothing
2006. Selwood, Hawkins
2007. Taylor
2008. Motlop
2009. Menzel, Duncan
2010. Smedts, Guthrie, Horlin-Smith

So 9 players to our 6.
And not remarkably better than we have done. ( Selwood , a great get, Hawkins a freebie ).
But ouch 2010 hurts when we walked away empty.

 

[aussierulesrules]

All I can say is 2 weeks ago the rebuild seemed on course by nearly all on here and even some madly said we have a slight chance for finals then after a bad loss the rebuild may not be on target and we are no hope for finals this year. I think the main problem is some supporters got ahead of themselves. We were still no hope for finals before the bad loss. We are a side who will win around 8 games. Not many thought differently to that at the start of the year and if anything we are more wins that we thought at this stage of the season. Maybe start panicking if we lose to Essendon. And maybe don't overate the list and then you wont be as disappointed.

Gee you carry on as if you know it all and are the only one who is "sane" amongst all the "madness". It's extraordinary how full of yourself you come across.

Before the season you tipped us to finish bottom 4 and yet we'd now have to pretty much implode to finish down there, given our draw for the rest of the season, yet again, you act as though you're the only one who's "sane" and is always right about where we're at, what we're capable of and so-on and that it's only those who don't agree with you on everything that are the "mad" ones. You really ought to get your hand off it.

You say it was "mad" for anyone to suggest that we might have been even a slight chance to make finals, yet we've performed just as well as Melbourne have this year IMO and all we're hearing about is how much of a chance they are to make it, yet despite our draw from now on being so much easier than theirs is (after theirs was so much easier to start the year), it was "madness" to even suggest that we're a SLIGHT chance? OK.

I'm sure you tipped us to finish top when we were 1-4 and had a % of about 70, 5 rounds into 1997 and that we'd come home like a train in 2003, for instance, because you just have that crystal ball that everyone else is missing.

We are a side who will win around 8 games.

Given what we've shown we're capable of so far this year, that would be a poor result given the draw we have from now on is about the easiest of any club in the league's.

Not only does having easier games from now on give us a better chance of winning each of them, but not having to play top teams week after week like we have so this year is likely to have less of a cumulatively tiring effect, which could reduce the likelihood of the big dips and peaks in performance.

 

[plugger66]

Gee you carry on as if you know it all and are the only one who is "sane" amongst all the "madness". It's extraordinary how full of yourself you come across.

Before the season you tipped us to finish bottom 4 and yet we'd now have to pretty much implode to finish down there, given our draw for the rest of the season, yet again, you act as though you're the only one who's "sane" and is always right about where we're at, what we're capable of and so-on and that it's only those who don't agree with you on everything that are the "mad" ones. You really ought to get your hand off it.

You say it was "mad" for anyone to suggest that we might have been even a slight chance to make finals, yet we've performed just as well as Melbourne have this year IMO and all we're hearing about is how much of a chance they are to make it, yet despite our draw from now on being so much easier than theirs is (after theirs was so much easier to start the year), it was "madness" to even suggest that we're a SLIGHT chance? OK.

I'm sure you tipped us to finish top when we were 1-4 and had a % of about 70, 5 rounds into 1997 and that we'd come home like a train in 2003, for instance.

What an insane reply to what I actually wrote. Full of myself? Shoes how little you know about me., That is the last thing I am. Obviously you feel my post was somehow having a go at you. Well you actually didn't come into my thoughts. Sorry about that. It was more about another poster who one week thinks we an make finals and the next carries on about selection.

And I don't think I picked us to finish bottom 4 but I may have. I picked us to win 6 to 8 games and was hoping to be wrong as I hoped we would win more. Anyway I'm sure you will find the post where I said bottom 4. And yes it was madness after last week to think finals. That's my opinion. And I have no idea whewre I thought we would finish after round 5 in 1997 but I'm sure it was very low. What is your point?

I thought my post was very reasonable and it wasn't about me picking where we would finish or that I was right but you go for it. As I said an insane reply for a pretty meek and mild post. Funny though. Gets me smiling as I type. Thank you for that. I wont make my post personal like you seem the need to.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

All I can say is 2 weeks ago the rebuild seemed on course by nearly all on here and even some madly said we have a slight chance for finals then after a bad loss the rebuild may not be on target and we are no hope for finals this year. I think the main problem is some supporters got ahead of themselves. We were still no hope for finals before the bad loss. We are a side who will win around 8 games. Not many thought differently to that at the start of the year and if anything we are more wins that we thought at this stage of the season. Maybe start panicking if we lose to Essendon. And maybe don't overate the list and then you wont be as disappointes. The rebuild seems on track but is it? Who knows. We will know more at the end of 2017.

It's been a case of hit repeat after all of our larger losses this season.

Recruiting no good, development no good, match plan no good.

It's been amusing & exceptionally frustrating to read the wild swings in opinion from week to week.

We're still on track to win 7-8 games, which is what many of us either predicted or hoped for.

The list is a work in progress & no one has ever suggested otherwise. The elite mids will come... It's going to be much easier to find them that a dominant group of talls, which it looks like the club has already assembled.

Last week was shattering & the players should be utterly embarrassed....how they come out on Sunday will be a good gauge of their character (although the game in Adelaide in a few weeks will be the true test).

 

[plugger66]

It's been a case of hit repeat after all of our larger losses this season.

Recruiting no good, development no good, match plan no good.

It's been amusing & exceptionally frustrating to read the wild swings in opinion from week to week.

We're still on track to win 7-8 games, which is what many of us either predicted or hoped for.

The list is a work in progress & no one has ever suggested otherwise. The elite mids will come... It's going to be much easier to find them that a dominant group of talls, which it looks like the club has already assembled.

Last week was shattering & the players should be utterly embarrassed....how they come out on Sunday will be a good gauge of their character (although the game in Adelaide in a few weeks will be the true test).

We don't always agree but that is exactly how I feel and see it.

 

[Plugger_87]

If you take out roo, fisher, dempster and montagna who will all retire in the next couple of years the average age of the whole list is aproximately 23.

Keep calm and carry on

 

[bird_man]

It's been a case of hit repeat after all of our larger losses this season.

Recruiting no good, development no good, match plan no good.

It's been amusing & exceptionally frustrating to read the wild swings in opinion from week to week.

We're still on track to win 7-8 games, which is what many of us either predicted or hoped for.

The list is a work in progress & no one has ever suggested otherwise. The elite mids will come... It's going to be much easier to find them that a dominant group of talls, which it looks like the club has already assembled.

Last week was shattering & the players should be utterly embarrassed....how they come out on Sunday will be a good gauge of their character (although the game in Adelaide in a few weeks will be the true test).

Don't worry, the same people will start another "we are back on the right track" thread when we beat Essendon.

 

[Joffaboy]

Don't worry, the same people will start another "we are back on the right track" thread when we beat Essendon.

Or a "we should fold" thread if we dont

 

[TheBalls]

If we win this weekend I'm definitely putting in a leave request to take a week off work after the grand final this year to celebrate the premiership. Love the Saints.

If we lose I am ripping up my membership. I'm so angry. Never going back.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

We don't always agree but that is exactly how I feel and see it.

That's why I don't put you on ignore Plugs (& probably vice versa).

We disagree on ruckman & the value of certain types of player, sometimes your posting style does my head in but all in all, you're a Sainter like the rest of us here & only want to be part of a club that wins a damn flag one day.

Until then we'll disagree on the best way to get there!

 

[gringo2011]

This is why we are not an instant re-build :
2004: NOTHING ( could have kept Gwilt, but neither here nor there ).
2005: Only Gilbert
2006: Only Armitage and Geary. That makes it pretty much our best year of drafting since 2001.
2007: Dempster and Steven. Both very important players.
2008: Nothing
2009: Nothing
2010: Tom Curren , depth at best ( could be nothing by this time next year ).

By now we were looking like Essendon 2016 without having the luxury of having players returning from suspension.
No this is not hindsight, i remember looking at us topping up with players like Gamble and Polo and seeing it like a car accident in slow motion.
We have retained only 6 players from 7 years of drafting, and most of them are not superstars.
More speculative now we can only hope that some of them will be long term players, remembering at the time that our list was retiring faster than we could replace it.

2011: Ross , Newnes, Webster. ( Shenton , Minchington ).
2012: Roberton, Hickey, ( Wright , Lee, Murdoch, Saunders , Pierce ). With no backup for McEvoy, Hickey was a strategic choice.
2013: Savage, Longer, Bruce, Billings, Dunstan, Weller, ( Delaney , Acres, Templeton, Holmes) . Bruce, good/lucky drafting. Have a shot , you may find gold. Some GOP's there maybe ( Savage /Weller ) but we needed them.
In 5 years time I would hope/expect that we have at least 10 of those players on our list.
That's WAY more than we got in the previous drafting period. What we did in 2001/2002 was bullshit, you cannot plan to pick up a team full of guns in two seasons. 2001 was a freak. To me the rebuilding of the spine of our team between 2011 and 2013 has been remarkable.

2014: (Membrey, McCartin, Goddard, Lonie, Sinclair , Payne).
2015: Carlisle , (Freeman, Gresham, White, Rice, O Kearny, Coughlan )

So we've grabbed Carlisle, but we haven't picked up too many GOP's from trades and stuff now. Players like McCartin and Goddard are longer term developments, so it made sense to grab them earlier in our rebuild.

Good assessment but I would say you are seriously underrating Savage. We knew his best was awesome but he really struggled with consistency. This year he's really ironed out his games where he goes missing. This year he's 12 across the league for meters gained, has gone up to third place against most stats at the Saints and has become a serious rebound back. He would be up with guys of Shaw's ilk in 2016, he's looking A grade now.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Good assessment but I would say you are seriously underrating Savage. We knew his best was awesome but he really struggled with consistency. This year he's really ironed out his games where he goes missing. This year he's 12 across the league for meters gained, has gone up to third place against most stats at the Saints and has become a serious rebound back. He would be up with guys of Shaw's ilk in 2016, he's looking A grade now.

I did say maybe .
My point was to highlight the sheer number of players we have brought in in a short space of time.

Lee , Goddard/Delaney Roberton
Webster, Carlisle , Shenton
Ross , Newnes, Dunstan
Billings, Bruce, Membrey
Sinclair ,McCartin, Loney

Hickey, Savage , Weller

Minchington, Gresham, Wright, Templeton

Is not a great team, but it was put together in a very short space of time.
( and may improve as players such as White , Rice etc make the grade ).

 

[George]

Gee you carry on as if you know it all and are the only one who is "sane" amongst all the "madness". It's extraordinary how full of yourself you come across.

Before the season you tipped us to finish bottom 4 and yet we'd now have to pretty much implode to finish down there, given our draw for the rest of the season, yet again, you act as though you're the only one who's "sane" and is always right about where we're at, what we're capable of and so-on and that it's only those who don't agree with you on everything that are the "mad" ones. You really ought to get your hand off it.

You say it was "mad" for anyone to suggest that we might have been even a slight chance to make finals, yet we've performed just as well as Melbourne have this year IMO and all we're hearing about is how much of a chance they are to make it, yet despite our draw from now on being so much easier than theirs is (after theirs was so much easier to start the year), it was "madness" to even suggest that we're a SLIGHT chance? OK.

I'm sure you tipped us to finish top when we were 1-4 and had a % of about 70, 5 rounds into 1997 and that we'd come home like a train in 2003, for instance, because you just have that crystal ball that everyone else is missing.

Given what we've shown we're capable of so far this year, that would be a poor result given the draw we have from now on is about the easiest of any club in the league's.

Not only does having easier games from now on give us a better chance of winning each of them, but not having to play top teams week after week like we have so this year is likely to have less of a cumulatively tiring effect, which could reduce the likelihood of the big dips and peaks in performance.

Agree mate...I'm one of the ones here that said we'd play finals this year and I'm sticking by it. Our last 14 rounds (including today) is easy, and if we play like we did against the Hawks and North we should be knocking off most of those sides. Who knew Fremantle would be an easy task this year? That's one that I didn't have us winning at the beginning of the season but now it looks plausible, especially considering it's at home.

Here's the remaining games, and in green the ones I think we can win;

Home vs Essendon
Home vs Fremantle
Away vs Adelaide
Home vs Carlton
Home vs Geelong
Away vs Gold Coast
Away vs Essendon
Home vs Melbourne
Away vs Western Bulldogs
Away vs North Melbourne
Away vs Carlton
Home vs Sydney
Away vs Richmond
Home vs Brisbane

That's 10 wins right there, which would push our record to 12-10.

We would need one more win from somewhere to make the eight, as 13-9 usually gets you in these days. The best chance of that happening is probably against the Dogs or Cats.

So it's not very far-fetched to suggest we'd make the eight, we've shown we're capable doing it against the better sides, we just need to now begin winning the games we should.

 

[bird_man]

Agree mate...I'm one of the ones here that said we'd play finals this year and I'm sticking by it. Our last 14 rounds (including today) is easy, and if we play like we did against the Hawks and North we should be knocking off most of those sides. Who knew Fremantle would be an easy task this year? That's one that I didn't have us winning at the beginning of the season but now it looks plausible, especially considering it's at home.

Here's the remaining games, and in green the ones I think we can win;

Home vs Essendon
Home vs Fremantle
Away vs Adelaide
Home vs Carlton
Home vs Geelong
Away vs Gold Coast
Away vs Essendon
Home vs Melbourne
Away vs Western Bulldogs
Away vs North Melbourne
Away vs Carlton
Home vs Sydney
Away vs Richmond
Home vs Brisbane

That's 10 wins right there, which would push our record to 12-10.

We would need one more win from somewhere to make the eight, as 13-9 usually gets you in these days. The best chance of that happening is probably against the Dogs or Cats.

So it's not very far-fetched to suggest we'd make the eight, we've shown we're capable doing it against the better sides, we just need to now begin winning the games we should.

If he happy if we won 7 of those. Ending up with 9 wins for the season would be fantastic for where we are at.

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Agree mate...I'm one of the ones here that said we'd play finals this year and I'm sticking by it. Our last 14 rounds (including today) is easy, and if we play like we did against the Hawks and North we should be knocking off most of those sides. Who knew Fremantle would be an easy task this year? That's one that I didn't have us winning at the beginning of the season but now it looks plausible, especially considering it's at home.

Here's the remaining games, and in green the ones I think we can win;

Home vs Essendon
Home vs Fremantle
Away vs Adelaide
Home vs Carlton
Home vs Geelong
Away vs Gold Coast
Away vs Essendon
Home vs Melbourne
Away vs Western Bulldogs
Away vs North Melbourne
Away vs Carlton
Home vs Sydney
Away vs Richmond
Home vs Brisbane

That's 10 wins right there, which would push our record to 12-10.

We would need one more win from somewhere to make the eight, as 13-9 usually gets you in these days. The best chance of that happening is probably against the Dogs or Cats.

So it's not very far-fetched to suggest we'd make the eight, we've shown we're capable doing it against the better sides, we just need to now begin winning the games we should.

So first of I agree with you. However taking a more pessimistic/pragmatic view we'd probably win 7-8 of those 10 games. But it all depends on which St Kilda turns up as well as injury management. If the good St Kilda turns up then yes but if the bad St Kilda turns up (WCE, Dogs, GWS) then we'll struggle to win some of those games

At start of the season I said we'll finish b/n 15-13 on the ladder and now after 8 rounds I'll modify it to 14-12....

We're still young and inconsistent. I'd love to trade pick 6 or 7 to GWS for Steele and Marchbank. With their salary cap issues as well as having to fit in 5 top 30 picks this year it is a distinct possibility

 

[RoundCubic]

Agree mate...I'm one of the ones here that said we'd play finals this year and I'm sticking by it. Our last 14 rounds (including today) is easy, and if we play like we did against the Hawks and North we should be knocking off most of those sides. Who knew Fremantle would be an easy task this year? That's one that I didn't have us winning at the beginning of the season but now it looks plausible, especially considering it's at home.

Here's the remaining games, and in green the ones I think we can win;

Home vs Essendon
Home vs Fremantle
Away vs Adelaide
Home vs Carlton
Home vs Geelong
Away vs Gold Coast
Away vs Essendon
Home vs Melbourne
Away vs Western Bulldogs
Away vs North Melbourne
Away vs Carlton
Home vs Sydney
Away vs Richmond
Home vs Brisbane

That's 10 wins right there, which would push our record to 12-10.

We would need one more win from somewhere to make the eight, as 13-9 usually gets you in these days. The best chance of that happening is probably against the Dogs or Cats.

So it's not very far-fetched to suggest we'd make the eight, we've shown we're capable doing it against the better sides, we just need to now begin winning the games we should.

We would of been a finals chance if we had won one or both of the North or Hawks games. We'll end up with 8-10 wins which would be a good position to aim for a top 8 spot in 2017.

 

[George]

We would of been a finals chance if we had won one or both of the North or Hawks games. We'll end up with 8-10 wins which would be a good position to aim for a top 8 spot in 2017.

Nup we'll win 11 of our last 13 games and storm home ala '97

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We would of been a finals chance if we had won one or both of the North or Hawks games. We'll end up with 8-10 wins which would be a good position to aim for a top 8 spot in 2017.

The way the draw works now, its harder to ensure a gradual improvement up the ladder.
If we finish in a better position this year , then get a harder draw next year and finish in the same position , it's still an improvement.

 

[RoundCubic]

The way the draw works now, its harder to ensure a gradual improvement up the ladder.
If we finish in a better position this year , then get a harder draw next year and finish in the same position , it's still an improvement.

Except it never ends up that straight forward because some teams get better while other teams drop off.
It's more about our own improvement then our draw unless we end up with 2 games against GWS, Dogs, WC, Sydney, Geelong and Melbourne in 2017. The hope would be that in 2017 we have more leaders and consistent performers get us through those tight games. That Mccartin, Dunstan, Gresham, Lonie, Sinclair, Webster can step up. While Carlisle can allow us to be more aggressive in our defensive set up against taller forwardlines.
We should be very excited about 2017 but to beat GWS in 2018-20 we need to do what the pies did to us and steal some GWS f/a's

 

[puppy_dog7]

Agree mate...I'm one of the ones here that said we'd play finals this year and I'm sticking by it. Our last 14 rounds (including today) is easy, and if we play like we did against the Hawks and North we should be knocking off most of those sides. Who knew Fremantle would be an easy task this year? That's one that I didn't have us winning at the beginning of the season but now it looks plausible, especially considering it's at home.

Here's the remaining games, and in green the ones I think we can win;

Home vs Essendon
Home vs Fremantle
Away vs Adelaide
Home vs Carlton
Home vs Geelong
Away vs Gold Coast
Away vs Essendon
Home vs Melbourne
Away vs Western Bulldogs
Away vs North Melbourne
Away vs Carlton
Home vs Sydney
Away vs Richmond
Home vs Brisbane

That's 10 wins right there, which would push our record to 12-10.

We would need one more win from somewhere to make the eight, as 13-9 usually gets you in these days. The best chance of that happening is probably against the Dogs or Cats.

So it's not very far-fetched to suggest we'd make the eight, we've shown we're capable doing it against the better sides, we just need to now begin winning the games we should.

I did the ladder predictor to win all those games except i swapped the North win to the doggies game.
We will still finish 9th unless we tighten our defence and have a couple of really big wins.
but the dogs will finish 8th ahead of us by percentage.
So unless we can somehow scrape a win against one of Geel, Syd, North or Adelaide then we have a tough task..

The only thing that gives me hope is that Richmond were 3 - 10 after round 14 in 2014 and came back to play finals

 

[The Punter]

Richmond had played finals in 2013. The more apt comparison would be Melbourne in 1987.

 

[crasha301]

Does anyone know where we rank in the comp for games played?