Game Day Western Bulldogs Vs Richmond R1 NAB Cup

[JTCWBFC]

We smashed all the key stats yesterday. Get the likes of Biggs, darley, murph for more game time and one of the new kids with good disposal, probably cd to tighten up the delivery into 50 and we will get a much higher conversion rate


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[JZ93]

Do hope daniel gets a run, seems a more damagin player than a few we did play

We smashed all the key stats yesterday. Get the likes of Biggs, darley, murph for more game time and one of the new kids with good disposal, probably cd to tighten up the delivery into 50 and we will get a much higher conversion rate


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iel

 

[Dazb86]

Just watching the replay now. Honeychurch was better than I remembered. Great forward pressure.

 

[The Original Swooper]

My take on issues raised in this thread.

Love Picko... BUT.... almost every WB BF fan has lamented at our draft selections of excess "small forwards", so why oh why are we trialling Picko down there. I don't buy this "defensive forward" modern day jargon. Put a pacey, dangerous but defensively capable natural forward there and let the backman worry about him !!

Forward entries were clumsy, but hell.... try being clinically clean when the oppo has all but 3 players permanently in their defensive arc. Laughed at Tigger poster on their match day thread canning us for playing Wallis as a tagger (was he?) in a NAB cup game yet accepted the back half flooding when they kicked against the breeze.

Talia had my belief back in 2013. Why he was not given at least a few games last season is perplexing to say the least. AFL development is exactly that... experience in AFL, not in a 2nd tier comp is the best way forward. Yeah yeah, building a "bond" with Roberts may be a bi-product of not being able/desirous of playing them both in the senior 22, but I believe a few more AFL games would have served him better. The injury plagued Roberts (who I DO think has potential) seems to be falling down the pecking order. I do however realise that Talia had sfa to combat yesterday, so both him and Hamling (who did little wrong in the short stints he played) will need to prove themselves against recognised opponents before we celebrate KPD depth.

The few touches Grant had were exquisite, but does he do enough ? He seems to be a bloody good decoy, 'cos nobody ever kicks it towards him.

Wood once again showed me he WILL be the perfect modern day attacking HBF'er. Reads defence well and has the ability to explode off the line.

With a few more pre-season games for the rest of the team to cement their spots, my defensive locks to date are:-

Roughead FB
Talia CHB
Wood & Murphy HBF
Morris BP

Leaves one starting spot, and a rotation spot for 2 of JJ, Hamling, Biggs, Darley, Z.Cordy & Roberts (when fit). NO Boyd, due to the Libber tragedy, as he will need to resume his inside mid accumulator role of years gone by.

 

[Next Waiting]

Talia had my belief back in 2013. Why he was not given at least a few games last season is perplexing to say the least. AFL development is exactly that... experience in AFL, not in a 2nd tier comp is the best way forward. Yeah yeah, building a "bond" with Roberts may be a bi-product of not being able/desirous of playing them both in the senior 22, but I believe a few more AFL games would have served him better. The injury plagued Roberts (who I DO think has potential) seems to be falling down the pecking order. I do however realise that Talia had sfa to combat yesterday, so both him and Hamling (who did little wrong in the short stints he played) will need to prove themselves against recognised opponents before we celebrate KPD depth.

I understand where people are coming from with this line of thinking re Talia last year and the continued selection of Austin. However, I'd invite people to consider that Austin was essentially canon fodder for a season where our midfield and forward lines bled like stuck pigs defensively when they didn't win the ball. We weren't trying to develop Austin but we were Talia. How much he would have developed at AFL level in a back 6 being subjected to the entries they were would be a consideration. All things considered, I think his time was better spent building playing time and combination with Roberts in a team that was competitive, and, as it will likely happen, graduate to regular selection in the seniors this year, a year older, fitter, stronger and perhaps wiser.

 

[fronkalicious]

Wood finished 19th in the b&f last year. Says so much about the previous regime.

 

[The Original Swooper]

I understand where people are coming from with this line of thinking re Talia last year and the continued selection of Austin. However, I'd invite people to consider that Austin was essentially canon fodder for a season where our midfield and forward lines bled like stuck pigs defensively when they didn't win the ball. We weren't trying to develop Austin but we were Talia. How much he would have developed at AFL level in a back 6 being subjected to the entries they were would be a consideration. All things considered, I think his time was better spent building playing time and combination with Roberts in a team that was competitive, and, as it will likely happen, graduate to regular selection in the seniors this year, a year older, fitter, stronger and perhaps wiser.

OR.... throw him to the wolves and if he is good enough he will improve, & learn to take the heat, so when the mids develop and take some pressure off the back 6, he goes from a serviceable/only choice KPD to a good one. I don't buy the "demoralising" factor in developing youth. If they have the required strength of character and skills they will tough it out and gain from it. It's not like he's playing a mamby pamby sport, it's a tough gig AFL. The sooner that is learnt, the sooner a lock in 22 player is established. There have been a few times where I've thought a coach SHOULD have given a player a break (classic example was Zac Dawson having his a*** wiped by Rocca in his 3rd game), but even he has emerged now as a permanent fixture in his teams back 6.

 

[Next Waiting]

OR.... throw him to the wolves and if he is good enough he will improve, & learn to take the heat, so when the mids develop and take some pressure off the back 6, he goes from a serviceable/only choice KPD to a good one. I don't buy the "demoralising" factor in developing youth. If they have the required strength of character and skills they will tough it out and gain from it. It's not like he's playing a mamby pamby sport, it's a tough gig AFL. The sooner that is learnt, the sooner a lock in 22 player is established. There have been a few times where I've thought a coach SHOULD have given a player a break (classic example was Zac Dawson having his a*** wiped by Rocca in his 3rd game), but even he has emerged now as a permanent fixture in his teams back 6.

That is the alternative argument. You'd have to know the player to make the judgement. I do accept there is a possibility that some players may be affected in the longer term by prolonged exposure to thrashings in the early stages of their careers (first couple of years), but may be able to brush it off as they mature mentally. In those cases it's a function of maturity/readiness as opposed to inherint talent. Again it's a case of judgement. Why burn a long term player when all he needs is a bit of time. It's a bit like burning a derby horse in early 2 yrold races he's never going to win or benefit from.

 

[Metal]

I don't see much point in analysing this game. For me, players went at it in bursts and only if they had to. For example, Stringer really only seemed to apply himself in the last quarter when we looked like losing. We were trying different things and, in windy and warm conditions, we were about increasing fitness and skill. Players always look rusty in these games which often bears no resemblance to actual season form. These games should be judged on what were trying achieve (ie what systems we were running with) and how successful they were - which I assume only the internal groups would know. This was just a stepping stone to the next game.

 

[Dazb86]

I'm pretty big on playing the best 22 every chance you get. We seemed to take a lot of intercept marks yesterday. More than I remember from last season.

 

[The Original Swooper]

That is the alternative argument. You'd have to know the player to make the judgement. I do accept there is a possibility that some players may be affected in the longer term by prolonged exposure to thrashings in the early stages of their careers (first couple of years), but may be able to brush it off as they mature mentally. In those cases it's a function of maturity/readiness as opposed to inherint talent. Again it's a case of judgement. Why burn a long term player when all he needs is a bit of time. It's a bit like burning a derby horse in early 2 yrold races he's never going to win or benefit from.

Yeah. There is def 2 sides to the argument, but I guess I lean towards the hard arse old school method. In this particular case, I'm even further that way considering 1) The player taking that possie was NOT an ageing gun we squeezed every last game from nor was he in our long term planning 2) Talia has a great physique and was ready for AFL 3) His older bro had already shown what the family genes had supplied and was an AA CHB. I can only assume that B-Mac thought Talia was either not mentally tough enough or just did not rate him. On both issues I believe he was wrong (and I was NOT, nor will be a B-Mac basher!). Time will tell, but I'd be a lot more comfy with Talia as our #2 KPD this season with an extra 20 odd games under his belt.

 

[Next Waiting]

Yeah. There is def 2 sides to the argument, but I guess I lean towards the hard arse old school method. In this particular case, I'm even further that way considering 1) The player taking that possie was NOT an ageing gun we squeezed every last game from nor was he in our long term planning 2) Talia has a great physique and was ready for AFL 3) His older bro had already shown what the family genes had supplied and was an AA CHB. I can only assume that B-Mac thought Talia was either not mentally tough enough or just did not rate him. On both issues I believe he was wrong (and I was NOT, nor will be a B-Mac basher!). Time will tell, but I'd be a lot more comfy with Talia as our #2 KPD this season with an extra 20 odd games under his belt.

But not just Macca. If he was really ready for it, why weren't the other members of the match committee advocating strongly for him to force selection (presumption is that they didn't advocate strongly for him)? We'll have to wait for the book I guess.
Generally we're on the same side here. Talia will get his opportunity this season and the 20 odd games will indeed be valuable moving forward.

 

[black pup]

My understanding is Hrovat is OK.

 

[immortalmike]

I took four things from this game. Supporters (particularly Richmond supporters) take preseason far too seriously.
I may have been wrong on Redpath but I remain skeptical.
Libba getting injured sucks terribly.
And though it was a meaningless match it was telling who kicked the winning goals, Stringer, Bontempelli and Macrae. The cream rises to the top no matter what. If you're looking for match winners there they are.

 

[fargy]

My understanding is Hrovat is OK.

Have you heard anything about Stevens with his wrist BP?

 

[The Original Swooper]

But not just Macca. If he was really ready for it, why weren't the other members of the match committee advocating strongly for him to force selection (presumption is that they didn't advocate strongly for him)? We'll have to wait for the book I guess.
Generally we're on the same side here. Talia will get his opportunity this season and the 20 odd games will indeed be valuable moving forward.

LOL... the book may be a good read. Seems Macca was a "my way or the highway" type coach, and considering he was surrounded by many of his Geelong cronies and those in 1st year roles, not sure any had the desire to cross his path

 

[Next Waiting]

LOL... the book may be a good read. Seems Macca was a "my way or the highway" type coach, and considering he was surrounded by many of his Geelong cronies and those in 1st year roles, not sure any had the desire to cross his path

Do we know the members of last year's match committee? And, do we know the make up of this year's match committee?

 

[black pup]

I have watched Redpath play nearly every game he has played FOR US, at Williamstown and last season at Footscray VFL.
This bullshit from the previous regime about player development is just that bullshit, I have no doubt Redpath along with 6 or 7 others will now develop at a fast rate under Beveridge.
I was going to say go and have a look at training, but if you have not watched training or seen these kids play before it would be hard to judge.
Our new game plan seems to have given everybody a new life, even a couple of our assistant coaches who I doubted, seem to be thriving at the moment.
I have full confidence in Jack Redpath having a successful 2015, great start yesterday.

 

[The Original Swooper]

The MC is usually the coach, the Asst Coach, sometimes the captain, the football manager, etc. Not sure of our structure, but in reality, the coach in synch with the line coaches have the team nutted out before the "official" MC sit down.

 

[black pup]

Have you heard anything about Stevens with his wrist BP?

Fargy, have mate who is trainer club, told me nothing serious.

 

[Next Waiting]

The MC is usually the coach, the Asst Coach, sometimes the captain, the football manager, etc. Not sure of our structure, but in reality, the coach in synch with the line coaches have the team nutted out before the "official" MC sit down.

Would be interested in a definitive answer on who was/is on the match committee (last year and this year). Do they have robust, free and frank discussions over selection, present well reasoned arguments for and against, advocate strongly, stand their ground on differences or are they a rubber stamp cowering in a corner.

 

[The Original Swooper]

Would be interested in a definitive answer on who was/is on the match committee (last year and this year). Do they have robust, free and frank discussions over selection, present well reasoned arguments for and against, advocate strongly, stand their ground on differences or are they a rubber stamp cowering in a corner.

Somebody a tad closer to the inner sanctum may be able to answer this.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

I took four things from this game. Supporters (particularly Richmond supporters) take preseason far too seriously.
I may have been wrong on Redpath but I remain skeptical.
Libba getting injured sucks terribly.
And though it was a meaningless match it was telling who kicked the winning goals, Stringer, Bontempelli and Macrae. The cream rises to the top no matter what. If you're looking for match winners there they are.

You forgot someone Mike.

 

[bullish23]

Talia was very good. Picked up exactly how he finished 2013.
Oh hang on, its now 2015. Why was he invisible for all of 2014? I know, must have been due to all those other tall options we had like Austin.....

 

[immortalmike]

You forgot someone Mike.

Oh apologies. Dickson's goal was brilliant too.