Religion Where did this "religion of peace" mantra come from?

[RisingPhoenix]

I wonder what Ben Affleck's response to that would be?

 

[RisingPhoenix]

I'm not defending Islam. I'm attacking racism.

Ben, is that you?

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Ben, is that you?

classic. do you write your own gags?

 

[RisingPhoenix]

classic. do you write your own gags?

Absolutely.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Absolutely.

...yeah, it shows...

 

[Malifice]

Its mystifying to see how it's apparently fine to openly express how dangerous and intellectually offensive fundamentalist Christianity is, yet whenever someone like a Dr Sam Harris dares to calmly articulate a position which suggests that the problems with Islam unfortunately aren't simply limited to a minority of nutjobs, then it's cries of ugly racist, bigot, Islamophobe, and on and on.

I am highly critical of Islam. It faces a number of problems, predominately a propensity for militantism and fundamentalism thanks in small part to the central teachings of its prophet. Its holy book clearly condones fundamentalist States, defensive war and acts of violence (as opposed to say, the New Testament) and proclaims itself as the literal truth; thus largely precluding interpretation and questions of context (again a problem that is largely avoided in many contemporary interpretations of the New and even Old Testament of Christianity).

These are issues that are being grappled with in many areas of Islam both in 'western' countries and abroad. Despite lacking similar hurdles in relation to fundamentalism, literal truth and militantism, Christianity took no less than 2 millennium to evolve to where it now. Islam has an even bigger mountain to climb sadly.

My defense of Islam is confined to opposing calls to persecute Muslims, and combating bigotry and Islamophobia. The religion itself is a load of garbage, and many acts done it its name should rightly be condemned. I'm not saying that as a bigot. I hold similar views in relation to Judaism, Christianity and even Scientology.

By base line argument is 'practice whatever religion you want in peace and without discrimination or persecution, as long as your practice harms no-one else'.

How many beheadings, mass executions, crucifixions and the like will it take before you put aside your own partisan ideological position and just accept Islam itself is part of the problem?

Religion is the problem. Islam is just one of the biggest ones and the one most prone to problems with militantism and fundamentalism.

What do propose we do?

 

[Partridge]

My defense of Islam is confined to opposing calls to persecute Muslims, and combating bigotry and Islamophobia. The religion itself is a load of garbage, and many acts done it its name should rightly be condemned. I'm not saying that as a bigot. I hold similar views in relation to Judaism, Christianity and even Scientology.

That's the other big issue too. Criticising Islam does not necessarily make someone Islamophobic. But it does allow very comfortable liberals to indulge in their favourite pastime - being offended.

Religion is the problem. Islam is just one of the biggest ones and the one most prone to problems with militantism and fundamentalism.

What do propose we do?

Education. Get religious people to actually read their holy books and discover what's in them. And protect and allow freedom of speech. Against any and all things if necessarily.

And people may be offended? Tough s**t.

 

[Partridge]

When did Islam become a race?
Islam is not a race
It is a fu*ked belief system that should have never got past the 7th century

Well said. It's amazing how many choose to ignore this rather obvious fact.

Then again, expecting people to be sane and rational is being pretty hopeful.

 

[Malifice]

That's the other big issue too. Criticising Islam does not necessarily make someone Islamophobic. But it does allow very comfortable liberals to indulge in their favourite pastime - being offended.

Id rather the pendulum swung in the direction of a few liberals being offended than swing the other way into rampant bigotry.

But yeah there is a difference between criticizing Islam and Islamophobia. Same as there is a difference between criticizing Israel and antisemitism.

Seriously though, if people said about Jews what they say about Muslims people would go apeshit. Jewish religious law and kosher have been in place in Australia for ages without anyone caring one iota. Mention halal and sharia, and people suddenly start freaking out. Same deal with building a Mosque. Synagogues go up all the time and no-one bats an eyelid. No one talks or cares about Jewish immigration.

This is OK:

This is not:

Go figure.

Education. Get religious people to actually read their holy books and discover what's in them. And protect and allow freedom of speech. Against any and all things if necessarily.

Thats a problem with the Quran though. It actually condones fundamentalism and militatism, purports to be a literal and absolute truth that cannot be interpreted away, and advocates for a (non liberal) Fundamentalist State.

Its hard (but not impossible) to interpret that stuff away.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Well said. It's amazing how many choose to ignore this rather obvious fact.

They're getting the terms 'racism' and 'bigotry' confused, I'd wager.

 

[smokingjacket]

When did Islam become a race?
Islam is not a race
It is a fu*ked belief system that should have never got past the 7th century

Can the mods please put in a FAQ section for every time an Islam thread gets started up?

Seriously, it feels like people have explained how "Muslims" can be race descriptor hundreds of times.

 

[Gough]

Nobody like to be labeled racist, even the bigots have feelings.

 

[kolchak]

"Brave" SAS soldiers crushing a student led communist movement.

And fleabitten sure they welcome money, who doesn't? Doesn't mean they don't forget either.

Try talking to some Malaysian Vets before you post that shite up here.

 

[pokerspiv]

Great video, would like to see it addressed by the left wing Islam defence brigade here, obviously they will ignore it.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Try talking to some Malaysian Vets before you post that shite up here.

Sounds like you might have an 'in' on this. Any stories you can share?

 

[Malifice]

Great video, would like to see it addressed by the left wing Islam defence brigade here, obviously they will ignore it.

Thanks for your insightful post.

Brandishing labels like 'left wing Islam defense brigade' isnt exactly constructive is it?

 

[pokerspiv]

Thanks for your insightful post.

Brandishing labels like 'left wing Islam defense brigade' isnt exactly constructive is it?

Maybe not, but it's accurate nevertheless.

 

[The Coup]

Try talking to some Malaysian Vets before you post that shite up here.

If they're anti Commie I'll do more tha talk to them, where do they live?

 

[The Coup]

Yep, that would reinforce what I'm saying. They want to enjoy the hotels, champange and bugati lifestyle in London but to do that they need to control their population. Religion for the poor and the rich buy the love of god. Classic case.

If I thought you were just attacking racism I wouldn't have pulled you up on it. You went on a whole bit that seemed to be defending Malaysian sharia law and then said white people shouldn't criticize Islam but surely atheists should be allowed to feel aggrieved if fellow atheists are being persecuted by Islam in majority Islamic countries? Just as Muslims can rightfully claim solidarity with civilians killed by western aggression.

FTR I feel like a right campaigner for giving you a hard time when there are clearly some warped individuals who get up and and about whenever Islam is mentioned. My main thing was that I didn't understand why you bothered to defend Islam at all. Why not say capitalism and religion are bad for everyone?

I mean if you're opposed to capitalism then you can't just contain yourself in Australia. Capital doesn't stop at borders, that's why the fight has to be international. yeahnah?

I'm defending the right of muslims to figure it out themselves considering christians have held them down for a hundred years.

Do you really think the right wingers in this thread are more intelligent than the average sharia loving idiot hick from afghanistan? I don't. they're the same people and the only difference is their relative wealth.

 

[The Coup]

Maybe not, but it's accurate nevertheless.

Sure it is.

You are deadset the weakest person I've ever come across. Gutless wonder doesn't even begin..

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

But they AREN'T moderate muslims. Even Far Right groups will tell you their viewpoints are mainstream, moderate and the only way to go. An extremist will NEVER tell you that they're extremist, because in their minds they're in the right, and its us moderates who are wrong.

Once again, that cleric in the video is not a moderate muslim.

 

[smokingjacket]

I'm defending the right of muslims to figure it out themselves considering christians have held them down for a hundred years.

Do you really think the right wingers in this thread are more intelligent than the average sharia loving idiot hick from afghanistan? I don't. they're the same people and the only difference is their relative wealth.

Is it Christians holding them down though? Aren't we talking about class struggle?

The relative intelligence of some of the posters in this thread is inconsequential. I'm asking you about your views because I believe the history of Communism has a proud history of denouncing all of it's ideological enemies in international solidarity. As I said before, it's a necessity because capitalism is internationalist in it's aims. Sometimes I feel like we've become too localised to the point of pettiness in our politics.

I wouldn't object to you defending the right of all the poor and working class of the Middle East/Africa/Asia to figure it out for themselves, regardless of their faith or lack of. However if they choose to be the slaves and participants in a reactionary religion and an oppressive system then call it out. Starting with the campaigners who's propaganda and lies create the system. How do you think democratic-socialists go in Saudi Arabia?

A Saudi court sentenced two young activists, Reda AlRubh and Ali AlNemer, to death...
According to the European Saudi Society for Human Rights, confessions that led to death sentences were extracted under torture...
The death sentence, in whatever way, is brutal. AlRubh is facing what is described as a regular death sentence by the sword. AlNemer is being sentenced to death in the form of crucifixion...
Hundreds have been arrested since 2011 when pro-democracy protestors in Saudi Arabia, inspired by the Arab Spring, took to the streets demanding an end to discrimination, oppression and poverty.

http://www.socialist.ca/node/2276

All in the name of the Islamic Kingdom, its cronies and parasites.

 

[Jiska]

Here we go again....

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Maybe not, but it's accurate nevertheless.

Care to tell us who it is made up of?

 

[LanceRomance]

Thats a problem with the Quran though. It actually condones fundamentalism and militatism, purports to be a literal and absolute truth that cannot be interpreted away, and advocates for a (non liberal) Fundamentalist State.

Its hard (but not impossible) to interpret that stuff away.

The usual response to that is "but the bible is violent too"