Who have been the Top 3 Hawks during the Premiership Era of 08 13 14 15?

[Paul007]

Hodge, Mitchell and Lake in no particular order.

 

[grumbleguts]

Buddy, because we've been able to keep everyone on the list, spending his pay packet.
Everyone
Else.

 

[Off The Couch]

Mitchell
Hodge
Burgoyne

 

[whiteTiga2k]

In my opinion, Mitchell is clearly not Number 1, it is a toss up. But I would say:

1. Hodge - big game player almost every year except 2012 GF. Was amongst the best in all our grand final wins. Just the best leader in the game. Should not surprise anyone that since Hodge has been captain, we have made 4 grand finals and won 3. He is just massive for us.
2. Mitchell - throughout the year, Mitchell is our most consistent player, and I think he is getting better as he gets older! But in 3 GFs out of the 5 we have been in, we he has been quiet. Clearly beaten by Ling in 2008, Crowley beat him in 2013 and O'Keefe also beat him in 2012. In the big games, up until last year, he hasn't performed. Sydney and West Coast didn't tag him so he destroyed them. One of our most consistent, and number 2 most important.
3. Roughead - A mainstay in all 5 GFs we have been in and has done well in most of them. Getting better with age, and is one of our best performers throughout the years. With ball in hand, just so confident he will do something good.... much like Hodge Mitchell Burgoyne and Rioli.

Special Mentions - Burgoyne - been fantastic from the time we recruited him. Cyril - while fit, always provides us with magic. Lake - Key to our 3-peat and we will struggle without him next year. Gibson - underrated by most but not me, a class player and an awesome Hawthorn Champion. Gunstan - big finals player for us and is one of the most intelligent forwards in the game. Hale - underrated by most but has been a great recruit, no one plays forward ruck as well as him in the game.

 

[D33licious]

honestly could argue 50 different blokes... we are the essence of team

on field in isolation

hodge
mitchell
roughy

but these years don't exist in isolation

the influence of peeps likes cyril, crawf, dew, burgs, pup, brown, buddy, smith, lake, gibson,starts, birch, vandenberg, sewell... so many people had such a huge impact you could go on forever.

and then you have to consider off field

clarko
jeff
dunstall

but go back through the all greats and scott saving the club... it's been a long work in progress

 

[D33licious]

They are both club champions. Thats why put Buddy in there.

But the question was who are the top 3 hawks during the 08,13,14&15?

Crawf was only there for 08, Buddy was only there for 08&13.

Roughy has been all of the them. Burgoyne in 3 of them (and absolutely influential in the finals of each of them).

buddy is interesting.

He certainly was influential. He really helped get a lot of excitement around the place that no doubt was a big driving factor towards our success.

Had so much ability and was absolutely incredible in 08. Funny thing is whilst playing well he underperformed from that point on and it soon became clear we are a better team without him.

 

[D33licious]

People discount Mitchell over Hodge as Hodge has 2 norms to 0. If Mitchell had won 14 and 15 (definitely possible) and Dew/Ellis has won 08 (also possible) I wonder if that would change the perception of Mitchell in big games....

maybe externally, every hawk knows what Hodge does for our club. Mitch is amazing but both have a huge advantage over the majority of our list, midfielders rule everyones perception these days

 

[D33licious]

It is worth giving thought to - in 2013 we won while preparing for life after Buddy by having him play a bit-part in the side. It improved us to be less focused on him with our forward entries. We improved further after he left. He is an amazing player, but you have to look at the overall value to the team. In 2008 his overall value to the team was immense. Just towering, unmatched. The 2013/14/15 model is a different beast, however, and Franklin was less valuable to it. The money he would have cost us had he taken our offer would have gotten a much worse return than it has with him not taking the offer.

Any case, clearly it didn't cost us anything, losing him, as you couldn't ask for better results in the last two years than what this side produced. Given all that, I don't think you could make a plausible case for including him on a list like this. If it was 'The 3 Most Freakishly Talented Hawks of 2008 - 2015' it would be a different story.

he was freakishly talented but he also had a lot of flaws and yes we are a much better team now without him.

i would argue that we are still burdened by not getting any decent compo for buddy as a couple of top tier draft picks may have really helped us in the "transition years".

 

[Badesumofu]

he was freakishly talented but he also had a lot of flaws and yes we are a much better team now without him.

i would argue that we are still burdened by not getting any decent compo for buddy as a couple of top tier draft picks may have really helped us in the "transition years".

While obviously a couple of high first rounders would be nice to have had, I believe the club benefited overall from Buddy going so I can't agree that the lack of draft compensation has burdened us.

 

[Hawker_85]

1. Hodge
2. Mitchell
3. Birch

Slightly biased due to my Tasmanianism.

 

[ACTion Hawks]

What a great thread, as to me it shows what a brilliant team we are with so many players contributing. I can come up with at least ten players that could easily be argued to be in:
The six who have played in all four premierships
1) Hodge - for all the obvious reasons many have mentioned earlier
2) Mitchell - again for obvious reasons many have mentioned earlier
3) Rioli - to me he is probably my favourite player to watch over that time
4) Birchall - talk consistent - talk Birchall. One of the six who has played in all and contributed in all
5) Lewis - I am surprised he has less love. When you win B&F in a premiership year you have obviously contributed
6) Roughy - love the big Rough. Big contributor and often mentioned as our MVP and least replaceable player
Other Major contributors
7) Burgers - he has been the clutch guy and I am not sure we would have won any of the last three without his effort in the PF in 2013! Talk about influential! He is Silk and we are very fortunate to have him.
8) Gibbo - again I am surprised he doesn't have more love. I was surprised he won the PC this year, but that means he was judged our best player in two premiership years by those who know his role best. Hard not to see him as a major contributor who is the glue of the defence.
9) Buddy - was best player in 2008, major contributor in 2013, gave us major motivation in 2014 and also opened up lots of space to get others. On pure talent would probably be number 1.
10) Lake - he was the missing piece of the puzzle and we have 100% record with him in the team. I am still surprised we did not get him to run around 1 more year, but Clarko and the others have all the best info.

I also think there are good arguments for Smith, Gunston, Breust and Shiels!!!!

But if I have to choose:

1) Hodge
2) Mitchell
3) Gibbo

 

[DannyJ]

1. Mitchell
2. Hodge
3. Franklin

Third was the hardest but I think he was the biggest factor from moving this team in 2006 to a genuine premiership contender in 2008.

Note: I've only counted players as part of the top 3. Off field is a whole different scenario

 

[beta_condition]

O'Keefe also beat him in 2012. In the big games, up until last year, he hasn't performed.
.

Mitchell has stood up in more finals than Hodge ten fold, also Mitchell was one of the best on the ground in 2012 GF not sure how you can call a 21 disposal 10 clearances game as a bad.

 

[WillowSF]

1. Mitchell
2. Hodge
3. Franklin

Third was the hardest but I think he was the biggest factor from moving this team in 2006 to a genuine premiership contender in 2008.

Note: I've only counted players as part of the top 3. Off field is a whole different scenario

Buddy was key in getting us into contention after years in the wilderness. The rarest of talents. On Grand Final performances alone I would go with Hodge, Birchall & Lewis.

 

[Bikefreak]

It is worth giving thought to - in 2013 we won while preparing for life after Buddy by having him play a bit-part in the side. It improved us to be less focused on him with our forward entries. We improved further after he left. He is an amazing player, but you have to look at the overall value to the team. In 2008 his overall value to the team was immense. Just towering, unmatched. The 2013/14/15 model is a different beast, however, and Franklin was less valuable to it. The money he would have cost us had he taken our offer would have gotten a much worse return than it has with him not taking the offer.

Any case, clearly it didn't cost us anything, losing him, as you couldn't ask for better results in the last two years than what this side produced. Given all that, I don't think you could make a plausible case for including him on a list like this. If it was 'The 3 Most Freakishly Talented Hawks of 2008 - 2015' it would be a different story.

Yep it became quite clear that the offer that HFC made to retain Buddy was based on his value to the team not his value on the open market.

He got the two mixed up and left for "greener pastures".

History is still being "written" on that one.

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[MrFujiMoto]

Buddy was more influential prior to, and including, 2008. He had very lean years (goals not weight) in 09, 10. Kicked mid 60s as our key target in both years and struggled hugely being double teamed. 2011 he started to get back on track again and almost got us into the GF himself but it amounted to nothing, as did 2012. The best think Franklin did in his last 3 years (11,12,13) was delight the crowd and nail it into Clarkos head that we needed to be less Buddy focused going forward.

I would say over the whole journey it would be -
1. Hodge
2. Roughead
3. Mitchell / Burgoyne

Burgoyne only misses out by half a bees whisker due to the fact that he missed 08. Look at the difference in the results from his first game though and he is dead stiff not to be in there. MASSIVE finals performer too. As important as Hodge when the s**t hits the fan, he is our "break glass in case of emergency" player. F*CK it he is tied with Mitch.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

Buddy deserves to be in top 3
Leading goal kicker
2 Coleman medals

I'd have Buddy ahead of Roughead

Roughead any day of the week for me. Far more versatile and that is a massive reason we have just won 3 flags. With Buddy we were too one dimensional and Buddy was no good anywhere but the forward 50. if that wasn't working having him in the side was actually a liability. Roughy has quiet games (according to our learned friend in the meedja) where he gathers 25 disposals, 5 inside 50s, 6 or so score involvements and 4 clearances. He fits that seamlessly into our midfield and half back line that people don't even notice how much of the ball he has racked up. Franklin could never do that. Franklin is one of the rarest talents to play the game, a freak, a crowd pleaser and capable of tearing a game apart on occasion. This is a team sport and Roughy fits that mold so much better than Franklin.

 

[Jables]

Buddy, Hodge and Gibson if I had to go with a forward, mid/utility and back. Obviously splitting hairs with some great players. Sometimes I wonder how different things would be if Buddy hadn't kicked that game winner against Adelaide in 07, that felt like the start of this era to me.

Roughead any day of the week for me. Far more versatile and that is a massive reason we have just won 3 flags. With Buddy we were too one dimensional and Buddy was no good anywhere but the forward 50. if that wasn't working having him in the side was actually a liability. Roughy has quiet games (according to our learned friend in the meedja) where he gathers 25 disposals, 5 inside 50s, 6 or so score involvements and 4 clearances. He fits that seamlessly into our midfield and half back line that people don't even notice how much of the ball he has racked up. Franklin could never do that. Franklin is one of the rarest talents to play the game, a freak, a crowd pleaser and capable of tearing a game apart on occasion. This is a team sport and Roughy fits that mold so much better than Franklin.

I think you're massively underselling Franklin's versatility and team play here to be honest. Roughead is an all time great player, but statistically Franklin beats him in nearly every margin despite Roughead playing more out of the forward line. The only reason Hawks fans started to rate Roughead higher is because Franklin left and everyone knew it in 2013, that is the truth.

 

[MrFujiMoto]

..........

I think you're massively underselling Franklin's versatility and team play here to be honest. Roughead is an all time great player, but statistically Franklin beats him in nearly every margin despite Roughead playing more out of the forward line. The only reason Hawks fans started to rate Roughead higher is because Franklin left and everyone knew it in 2013, that is the truth.

That is the truth? I rated Roughy higher than Franklin prior to 2013. Franklin was never the team player Roughy is and has always been. Franklins versatility was limited to very short runs through the middle where he would more often than not get in the way of the other midfielders. He had no positioning and football nous when it came to being anywhere other than 0 - 70m from goal. Roughead can play as a genuine key forward, high half forward, ruck, rover, wing, key back and bottle wash. Franklin could play as a key forward, high half forward or wing at a stretch. Roughy is, and was with Franklin in the team, the forward general. He is the one that marshals the troops and sets positions when he is in the F50. Roughead is also 10x the leader Franklin could ever dream to be. These are all reasons I chose Rough over Franklin. I think he is well ahead in all the areas you mentioned

 

[Bikefreak]

Buddy, Hodge and Gibson if I had to go with a forward, mid/utility and back. Obviously splitting hairs with some great players. Sometimes I wonder how different things would be if Buddy hadn't kicked that game winner against Adelaide in 07, that felt like the start of this era to me.



I think you're massively underselling Franklin's versatility and team play here to be honest. Roughead is an all time great player, but statistically Franklin beats him in nearly every margin despite Roughead playing more out of the forward line. The only reason Hawks fans started to rate Roughead higher is because Franklin left and everyone knew it in 2013, that is the truth.

Agree.

Lance has a good tank for a big fella. He could be up at CHB receiving an outlet pass and then running on to make a lead inside 50.

JG has been doing a bit of that this year. Roughy is also able to help out in getting the ball down the ground in this way.

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[seysearles]

01. Mitchell (by some margin).
02. Lake (there is a reason we won 3 flags in the 3 years he was with us).
03. Hodge (the difference when the whips were cracking).
04. Burgoyne (Stood at the cross roads of our history in the 13PF and single handedly dragged us toward the 3peat).
05. Gibson Roughy Birchall Lewis Rioli (All major contributors in the next group down).

 

[Grendel]

Hodge
Gibson
Birchall. That's the main three imo since all GF's we have played in since 2008.

Lewis very stiff to miss out.

 

[Thaihawk]

Buddy deserves to be in top 3
Leading goal kicker
2 Coleman medals

I'd have Buddy ahead of Roughead

Your "Carlton style" thinking is why your club is down the bottom, and we're up the top. Buddy only has 2 Premiership Medallions, Rouh has 4, and he has 1 Coleman as well.

 

[Mitchell54]

Your "Carlton style" thinking is why your club is down the bottom, and we're up the top. Buddy only has 2 Premiership Medallions, Rouh has 4, and he has 1 Coleman as well.

Rough also gets ahead with loyalty points. no point having a team with low loyalty, wouldn't get far.

 

[Brishawk]

The reason I have no doubt about Hodgey is his performance in 2008 was superb, and the goals he kicked in 2014 and 2015 flattened the opposition and set up the easy win. The goal this year from the boundary was amazing, and opposition players' jaws just dropped. The intercepted goal in the 2nd quarter in 2015 from the kick in nailed it shut. He just did freakish things at vital moments and that's why I said Hodge, no doubt.

He has polled norm smith votes in all four of our premierships including taking home the medal twice. His leadership and ability to impact big moments in finals is incredible. For me the clear number 1. Mitch is mr consistent and clearly an incredible player and despite two quiet grand finals he is a big part of the reason we are a great side so he is my number 2. Number 3 is super tough. Rioli, Burgoyne, roughy, Lewis, birchall, Gunston, and smith all major factors. I am going to go for smith as I think it is his run that transformed us from a slightly dour team in 2011 to a more dynamic attacking team in 2012. His finals record is very very good and always seems to bob up for a big goal in the grand final.