Moved Thread Who was/is the better player. Gary Ablett jnr or Dustin Martin?

[Sky]

s**t im 41 but this makes me feel like a geriatric . Yeah Gaz played mostly forward early until the infamous leading teams meeting when they told him he should be their Judd. So he did

yeah but I like you mate best Collingwood supporter on the website because you enjoy a choof & cheers thought so

 

[Falcon3518]

s**t im 41 but this makes me feel like a geriatric . Yeah Gaz played mostly forward early until the infamous leading teams meeting when they told him he should be their Judd. So he did

When you say forward, like 100% forward pocket? Or 50/50 like Martin?


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[Pistol Night]

When you mean forward, like 100% forward pocket? Or 50/50 like Martin?


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Pretty well just forward. Dont think he had the tank early. Wasn’t overly commited. Turned it round dramatically. He might have had stints in the middle early on but can’t recall it much. The Cats lads will know more. Nathan had freakish talent but was a bit of a unit

 

[Sky]

Pretty well just forward. Dont think he had the tank early. Wasn’t overly commited. Turned it round dramatically. He might have had stints in the middle early on but can’t recall it much. The Cats lads will know more. Nathan had freakish talent but was a bit of a unit

I think it’s why Cats fans will always Selwood so highly as a captain even with just 1 premiership.

By all reports there was a lot of in-fighting and clash of personalities so when you have a kid rock up day 1 with a better attitude.. it looks like he punked the squad out and then they performed immediately and won a flag.

 

[Pistol Night]

I think it’s why Cats fans will always Selwood so highly as a captain even with just 1 premiership.

By all reports there was a lot of in-fighting and clash of personalities so when you have a kid rock up day 1 with a better attitude.. it looks like he punked the squad out and then they performed immediately and won a flag.

It’s so annoying as a Collingwood supporter to not hate Selwood but he’s a ripping bloke. Always has been

 

[Sky]

It’s so annoying as a Collingwood supporter to not hate Selwood bit he’s a ripping bloke. Always has been

We are both blessed mate you have Pendlebury and he’s still going. Didn’t he debut a year earlier than Selwood as well?!

 

[Pistol Night]

We are both blessed mate you have Pendlebury and he’s still going. Didn’t he debut a year earlier than Selwood as well?!

Yeah. Let’s hope he can have a similar farewell. Might have to play til he’s 57 though.

 

[Sky]

Yeah. Let’s hope he can have a similar farewell. Might have to play til he’s 57 though.

As long as I don’t have to listen to fudge for the next 20 odd years then I’m okay with that mate

 

[Falcon3518]

Not trying to say Dusty is better or anything, but I think it would be good to see a refresher of his 2017 season. Definitely worth the watch. It would be good if somebody could post GAJ highlights as well.




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[Sttew]

In all but one area - grand final performances, GAJ is/was the better player, and that's not to say GAJ was a slouch in GF's:

DUSTY

3× AFL premiership player: 2017, 2019, 2020

3× Norm Smith Medal: 2017, 2019, 2020

Brownlow Medal: 2017

Leigh Matthews Trophy: 2017

AFLCA champion player of the year award: 2017

4× All-Australian team: 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020

3× Gary Ayres Award: 2017, 2019, 2020

2× Jack Dyer Medal: 2016, 2017

State of Origin best on ground: 2020

Ian Stewart Medal: 2017, 2019

Lou Richards Medal 2017

2× 22under22 team: 2012, 2013

AFL Rising Star nominee: 2010

GAJ

2× AFL premiership player: 2007, 2009

2× Brownlow Medal: 2009, 2013

Gold Coast captain: 2011–2016

5× Leigh Matthews Trophy: 2007, 2008, 2009, 2012, 2013

3× AFLCA champion player of the year award: 2007, 2008, 2009

8× All-Australian team: 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 (c), 2012, 2013, 2014

2× Carji Greeves Medal: 2007, 2009

4× Gold Coast Suns Club Champion: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2017

Geelong leading goalkicker: 2006

2× Gold Coast leading goalkicker: 2012, 2013

2× Marcus Ashcroft Medal: 2012 (game 2), 2014 (game 1)

Madden Medal: 2020

2× Lou Richards Medal: 2009, 2013

 

[Falcon3518]

In all but one area - grand final performances, GAJ is/was the better player, and that's not to say GAJ was a slouch in GF's:

DUSTY

3× AFL premiership player: 2017, 2019, 2020

3× Norm Smith Medal: 2017, 2019, 2020

Brownlow Medal: 2017

Leigh Matthews Trophy: 2017

AFLCA champion player of the year award: 2017

4× All-Australian team: 2016, 2017, 2018, 2020

3× Gary Ayres Award: 2017, 2019, 2020

2× Jack Dyer Medal: 2016, 2017

State of Origin best on ground: 2020

Ian Stewart Medal: 2017, 2019

Lou Richards Medal 2017

2× 22under22 team: 2012, 2013

AFL Rising Star nominee: 2010

GAJ

2× AFL premiership player: 2007, 2009

2× Brownlow Medal: 2009, 2013

Gold Coast captain: 2011–2016

5× Leigh Matthews Trophy: 2007, 2008, 2009, 2012, 2013

3× AFLCA champion player of the year award: 2007, 2008, 2009

8× All-Australian team: 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 (c), 2012, 2013, 2014

2× Carji Greeves Medal: 2007, 2009

4× Gold Coast Suns Club Champion: 2011, 2012, 2013, 2017

Geelong leading goalkicker: 2006

2× Gold Coast leading goalkicker: 2012, 2013

2× Marcus Ashcroft Medal: 2012 (game 2), 2014 (game 1)

Madden Medal: 2020

2× Lou Richards Medal: 2009, 2013

I think you mean ALL finals, not just GFs. And I’ve said this before getting B&Fs at the suns isn’t really impressive as they were all 18 year olds when he went. No s**t he was going to win them and be MVP.

Also State of Origin medal is probably harder to get than a Norm Smith imo as it has the best players from the comp playing and you have to be selected. I don’t think it can be argued that Dusty is a better big game player. But some people prefer consistency in H&A over finals which is fair enough.



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[Sttew]

I think you mean ALL finals, not just GFs. And I’ve said this before getting B&Fs at the suns isn’t really impressive as they were all 18 year olds when he went. No s**t he was going to win them. Also State of Origin medal is probably harder to get than a Norm Smith imo as it has the best players from the comp playing and you have to be selected.



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I don’t know why you think you can reinvent history insofar as GAJ is concerned. From a longevity perspective GAJ did it longer and better. 8 years in succession he was AA. But if you don’t rate that, what about AFLPA and Leigh Matthews trophies?

Dusty’s 3 X NS will be a record unlikely to be broken.

 

[Falcon3518]

I don’t know why you think you can reinvent history. From a longevity perspective GAJ did it longer and better. 8 years in succession he was AA. But if you don’t rate that, what about AFLPA and Leigh Matthews trophies?

Dusty’s 3 X NS will be a record unlikely to be broken.

Longer in H&A yes but not peak, I mean Dusty’s 2017 won everything including record Brownlow votes. And in finals Dustys peak and consistency is better.

So to sum up, GAJ is more consistent in H&A than Dusty. That’s it according to awards which you brought up.

But yeah GAJs H&A awards won’t be broken either. That’s why they are equal to me.


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[My Tilly]

I think you mean ALL finals, not just GFs. And I’ve said this before getting B&Fs at the suns isn’t really impressive as they were all 18 year olds when he went. No s**t he was going to win them and be MVP.

Also State of Origin medal is probably harder to get than a Norm Smith imo as it has the best players from the comp playing and you have to be selected. I don’t think it can be argued that Dusty is a better big game player. But some people prefer consistency in H&A over finals which is fair enough.



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You are never going to convince the masses. You have used the same argument against Junior's oldman.

Martin's a superstar. One of the greatest of his generation but he will never go down as one of the greatest all time. Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett Snr, Leigh Matthews, Tony Lockett etc, these guys were brilliant for over a decade. They would draw crowds to the footy. Dominated State of Origin when it was at a pinnacle.
They were head and shoulders above their peers and played in a tough, uncompromising era. Brilliant on either side of the body. None of this playing on and snapping a goal on your favored foot. They slotted set shots from outside the fifty. They took hangers. They had to contend with defenders hanging off them all day long with only two umpires watching on.

 

[Falcon3518]

You are never going to convince the masses. You have used the same argument against Junior's oldman.

Martin's a superstar. One of the greatest of his generation but he will never go down as one of the greatest all time. Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett Snr, Leigh Matthews, Tony Lockett etc, these guys were brilliant for over a decade. They would draw crowds to the footy. Dominated State of Origin when it was at a pinnacle.
They were head and shoulders above their peers and played in a tough, uncompromising era. Brilliant on either side of the body. None of this playing on and snapping a goal on your favored foot. They slotted set shots from outside the fifty. They took hangers. They had to contend with defenders hanging off them all day long with only two umpires watching on.

Yet none of them were as good as Dusty in finals. Go figure. Might want to take it up with Leigh Matthews cause he’s already said Dusty is the only player comparable to him and nobody has had a better season than he did in 2017. I’ve literally got his quote on my Dusty memorabilia. You keep living in your own world man I don’t care.

In regards to the ‘masses’, I’ve said before let my gen kick in. Imo it’s just Djokovic syndrome talking. The players you mentioned have been your ‘GOATS’ for a significant part of your life, you aren’t going to change your mind and let Dusty invade the territory just like Federer and Nadal fans who hate Djokovic. It’s normal, once upon a time people would’ve been saying John Coleman was way better than GAS.


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[My Tilly]

Yet none of them were as good as Dusty in finals. Go figure. Might want to take it up with Leigh Matthews cause he’s already said Dusty is the only player comparable to him and nobody has had a better season than he did in 2017. I’ve literally got his quote on my Dusty memorabilia. You keep living in your own world man I don’t care.

In regards to the ‘masses’, I’ve said before let my gen kick in. Imo it’s just Djokovic syndrome talking. The players you mentioned have been your ‘GOATS’ for a significant part of your life, you aren’t going to change your mind and let Dusty invade the territory just like Federer and Nadal fans who hate Djokovic. It’s normal, once upon a time people would’ve been saying John Coleman was way better than GAS.


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Lockett booted 35 goals in only 9 finals appearances. He also slotted 6 in a losing grand final effort. lol, do you know past players or not?
Carey averaged 17 disposals, 7 marks and 2.6 goals per final.
Martin's not fit to lace his boots. Seriously!

He is quickly becoming an overrated player. All the hype surrounding his grand final performances. two of the games were absolute blowouts. The only one which was worthy of legendary status was against Geelong in 2020. In that game, he actually kicked the goals that were needed for his side to claw their way back into the contest.
The rest of his grand final performances, you could have given it to a number of Richmond players for being best player on the day. Now you re-write history as if to make Martin this all conquering finals player. The bloke has always had a free run at it. Did very little prior to 2017 in finals.
Was terrible this past season (and no excuses as you never give Ablett an excuse for being unfit in 1991).

 

[Falcon3518]

Lockett booted 35 goals in only 9 finals appearances. He also slotted 6 in a losing grand final effort. lol, do you know past players or not?
Carey averaged 17 disposals, 7 marks and 2.6 goals per final.
Martin's not fit to lace his boots. Seriously!

He is quickly becoming an overrated player. All the hype surrounding his grand final performances. two of the games were absolute blowouts. The only one which was worthy of legendary status was against Geelong in 2020. In that game, he actually kicked the goals that were needed for his side to claw their way back into the contest.
The rest of his grand final performances, you could have given it to a number of Richmond players for being best player on the day. Now you re-write history as if to make Martin this all conquering finals player. The bloke has always had a free run at it. Did very little prior to 2017 in finals.
Was terrible this past season (and no excuses as you never give Ablett an excuse for being unfit in 1991).

Why are you comparing forwards kicking goals to Martin? . Are you going to start using defensive intercepts as your next measurement?

How many GFs did Lockett, Matthews, GAS, GAJ and Carey play in? Seriously I’d like to know the number cause they’ve only got 1 norm smith between them and it was a losing one. Just soak that in for a second cause Dusty tripled it. Btw Dusty has kicked 6 in a QF and 4 in two GFs as a MID in the system era. That’s more impressive the Lockett or Carey’s 6,7 goal games.

Dunno if you were paying attention during the 2020 GF but one of the commentators said ONLY Dusty and Barry Cable have gotten at least 20 disposals and 2 goals in 3 GFs. Cable is a legend in the HOF btw. Dusty is not overrated you just don’t like he’s better than anybody from Geelong in finals, which is a fact. Either that or you’ve got severe nostalgia issues. Also from 2017-2020 he had about 3/4 BOG rate in finals and 100% in GFs. Yeah it doesn’t get more consistent than that sorry to burst your bubble.

I’m also surprised you don’t give a man a pass cause of depression from the death of his dad. Pretty heartless tbh.


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[My Tilly]

Why are you comparing forwards kicking goals to Martin? . Are you going to start using defensive intercepts as your next measurement?

How many GFs did Lockett, Matthews, GAS, GAJ and Carey play in? Seriously I’d like to know the number cause they’ve only got 1 norm smith between them and it was a losing one. Just soak that in for a second cause Dusty tripled it. Btw Dusty has kicked 6 in a QF and 4 in two GFs as a MID in the system era. That’s more impressive the Lockett or Carey’s 6,7 goal games.

Dunno if you were paying attention during the 2020 GF but one of the commentators said ONLY Dusty and Barry Cable have gotten at least 20 disposals and 2 goals in 3 GFs. Cable is a legend in the HOF btw. Dusty is not overrated you just don’t like he’s better than anybody from Geelong in finals, which is a fact. Either that or you’ve got severe nostalgia issues. Also from 2017-2020 he had about 3/4 BOG rate in finals and 100% in GFs. Yeah it doesn’t get more consistent than that sorry to burst your bubble.

I’m also surprised you don’t give a man a pass cause of depression from the death of his dad. Pretty heartless tbh.


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Different era. Easier for Martin to be the icing on the cake playing against weaker teams.
Try being the best player on the field when you are up against the best talent for an entire state as was the case with West Coast and Adelaide of the 80's/90's. They always had the best medium-sized mids & defenders. Hart, Worsfold, McKenna, Smart, Bickley. They put Martin's opponents to shame by comparison.
Kyle Hartigan? Sam Taylor? Jake Kolodjashnij? The only bloke worthy of consideration was Matt de Boer in 2019. He is not even in the same conversation as those 90's footballers.

As for Hawthorn of the 80's, Ayres v Martin . . . . come on, he'd barely manage 20 touches a game.

As for 20 disposals and 2 goals in grand finals, Paul Chapman managed 23 disposals & 2 goals (average) in four of his grand final appearances. Should we overrate him like Martin?
I mean come on, his grand final performances were ridiculously good.

 

[Falcon3518]

Different era. Easier for Martin to be the icing on the cake playing against weaker teams.
Try being the best player on the field when you are up against the best talent for an entire state as was the case with West Coast and Adelaide of the 80's/90's. They always had the best medium-sized mids & defenders. Hart, Worsfold, McKenna, Smart, Bickley. They put Martin's opponents to shame by comparison.
Kyle Hartigan? Sam Taylor? Jake Kolodjashnij? The only bloke worthy of consideration was Matt de Boer in 2019. He is not even in the same conversation as those 90's footballers.

As for Hawthorn of the 80's, Ayres v Martin . . . . come on, he'd barely manage 20 touches a game.

As for 20 disposals and 2 goals in grand finals, Paul Chapman managed 23 disposals & 2 goals (average) in four of his grand final appearances. Should we overrate him like Martin?
I mean come on, his grand final performances were ridiculously good.

What were martins averages? Cause with basic calc it’s over a 3 goal average 2,4,4 goals. Disposals I think would be about the same. So not even close. Try again.

You also clearly didn’t watch Dusty enough to realise what made him good. He randomly switched positions mid game between mid and fwd to confuse the oppo and get a favourable matchup or no match up at all. I’ll take Nick Riewoldts advice when he says he’s never seen anybody do it as good as Dusty. Fox footy have called it the ‘striker’ position and teams have started copying like Trac with the Dees, that’s how revolutionary he is. I don’t blame you for not agreeing though, Dustys dominance in finals started from the 2017 QF against you. You obviously have a chip of your shoulder from day dot. Which is fair enough.

Best talent in the entire state? Like the State of Origin BOG medal? just sit down buddy you clearly have no idea what’s going on.


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[BringouttheGimp]

3 premierships & 3 Norm Smith's.

Dusty.

 

[My Tilly]

What were martins averages? Cause with basic calc it’s over a 3 goal average 2,4,4 goals. Disposals I think would be about the same. So not even close. Try again.

You also clearly didn’t watch Dusty enough to realise what made him good. He randomly switched positions mid game between mid and fwd to confuse the oppo and get a favourable matchup or no match up at all. I’ll take Nick Riewoldts advice when he says he’s never seen anybody do it as good as Dusty. Fox footy have called it the ‘striker’ position and teams have started copying like Trac with the Dees, that’s how revolutionary he is. I don’t blame you for not agreeing though, Dustys dominance in finals started from the 2017 QF against you. You obviously have a chip of your shoulder from day dot. Which is fair enough.

Best talent in the entire state? Like the State of Origin BOG medal? just sit down buddy you clearly have no idea what’s going on.


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You have your head so far up Dusty's tattooed backside, you have no clue how bad it stinks.

 

[Falcon3518]

You have your head so far up Dusty's tattooed backside, you have no clue how bad it stinks.

Sounds like you’ve had some experience in it, now go look at some GAJ highlights at the suns. That’s where he played his best footy anyway.


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[My Tilly]

Sounds like you’ve had some experience in it, now go look at some GAJ highlights at the suns. That’s where he played his best footy anyway.


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Poll result pretty much says it all.

 

[Falcon3518]

Poll result pretty much says it all.

For now and like Polly he will be forgotten eventually. All that’s left will be the awards. It will show that Dusty is the GOAT finals player with his record norm smiths and Gary Ayers awards and he had a better Brownlow season than GAJ as per the record Brownlow votes and winning everything in a season which nobody has done before. Enjoy.


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[HalloweenJack]

For now and like Polly he will be forgotten eventually. All that’s left will be the awards. It will show that Dusty is the GOAT finals player with his record norm smiths and Gary Ayers awards and he had a better Brownlow season than GAJ as per the record Brownlow votes and winning everything in a season which nobody has done before. Enjoy.


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Absolutely no need to insult Polly who was a better footballer than every other footballer that I have seen. I thought you were better than that.

As for this thread, Dusty is better in all facets of the game. Some people seem to forget that despite the high number of possessions that GAJ got in the 2008 GF he failed to get his team over the line. Contrast that game with the 2020 GF.