If you could ask one question to the Swans (recruiter/ coach etc), what would it be?

[Corpuscles]

^^^WTF!

Is it now cryptic cross-words here? spit it out


----------------------------------------------------

Roosey you have declared you are NOT a career coach... is that a clever ruse!... or Roooooooos?
What effort will you make (if that is true and fact) to keep interest in the long term interest of the club and leave it it good future shape for your replacement?

 

[Hopelesslyaddicted]

The Natural

You say the person in the front office is not a girl but then you go on to refer to that individual as being of the female form, seven times during the rest of your last post.

 

[Gun Barrel Straight]

I have a better one. Why was he drafted? Surely Salopek would have been a better option?

draft is always hit and miss. in the exact same draft we took a dud in mcveigh with pick 5 we got a gem at pick 64 in malceski.

 

[ssfc0203]

Kind of had a bit of a gut feel myself that there was an individual posting on Big Footy who was an insider from the club and having just read some of the threads that that person has started I don't think that they have totally hidden the fact.

Might explain how come that person is so good at critiquing others rather than necessarily offering controversial points of view.

Good on that person if it is true, I certainly welcome her point of view and whilst I don't always agree with her, she certainly always explains her beliefs in a rational manner.

Further more if the girl in the front office has enough love for the club and team that shes posts on this site in her own time, then IMO she is a real asset to the club and to this site as well.

Perhaps maybe if we are all really lucky she would be kind enough to pass on the questions from this thread to the relevant people at the club?

So it's a her, she knows heaps about the club and has contributed really well on this board?


Is it who i think it is?!

 

[bedford]

So it's a her, she knows heaps about the club and has contributed really well on this board?


Is it who i think it is?!

thats for the south bloods to know.

 

[Hopelesslyaddicted]

Dear ssfc0203

You are probably thinking of the same person that I am, which may or may not be the same person that The Natural was alledging that Bedford thought was part of the club.

Basically only one person knows for sure as to what capacity they may or may not be connected to the club and that is the individual concerned as all that has been put forward is baseless innuendo based largely on and also a compliment to, the individuals degree of knowledge, rational way of expressing their thoughts and the "pattern" of the way that they post

Best we get back to the intention of the thread and keep our fingers crossed they she (if she is a she), whether they be associated with the club or not, continues to grace us with their presence and excellent posts

 

[ssfc0203]

Queen Elizabeth is a monarch of the highest standard, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Hopelesslyaddicted]

It would be interesting to know more about each other

 

[smasher]

I'd like to know why we recruit so many midfielder type players when we need some bigger,stronger players for these skilled midfielders to deliver the ball tur so called talls are getting older and we haven't been recruiting that type to replace them.I find this hard to understand as I watch many opponents going forth with tall,strong,mobile youth.
I also think it is a bit unfair to the players we have drafted since 2004 as they rarely get a game in the ones and are given very little opportunity to prove themselves.I do know that one of these midfielders was sought by other clubs in the pre season draft period time but it was a strict "hands off" from our recruitment blokes.We have too many good players lingering in the two's.Maybe we will see something different in 2008.I hope so.

 

[ssfc0203]

It would be interesting to know more about each other

in the least.

i can finally learn to drive now!

 

[snappy]

First of all good on that person for posting here often, i enjoy reading her posts, and i dont care where or who she works for..

OK, now Roosy, what happened to our fast moving keep the ball going forward 2003/4 game plan?
In round 22 last season we played a young fast team on their own preferd game plan, it was argueably the best game of the year for us, why was it next week we reverted to negative slow football?
With a FWD line consisting of stars, why is that particually last season our mids kept kicking the ball to Hall when he was not only underdone but also out numberd?

 

[BLmatt_20]

wheres my scholarship?..........

ummm, ive always wanted to know how you get a job at the administrative area of the club. for example...i went touring the SCG and they had rooms where they make highlight packages for all the players etc. or even how to become part of the recruiting area...i think those jobs would be awsome jobs to fall back on if i dont make the AFL

 

[ssfc0203]

wheres my scholarship?..........

ummm, ive always wanted to know how you get a job at the administrative area of the club. for example...i went touring the SCG and they had rooms where they make highlight packages for all the players etc. or even how to become part of the recruiting area...i think those jobs would be awsome jobs to fall back on if i dont make the AFL

lol, good luck with that

i want to get a job at swans administration or human resources, membership, etc when i'm at uni, but seems a long shot atm

 

[rancidpants13]

Playing kids is not a blueprint for success. If it were, Richmond and Carlton would have the next few premierships sown up.

Collingwood have stumbled on a group of 3 or 4 very good youngsters who have made an impact quickly. Thomas and Pendlebury look like they've got very good careers ahead of them - but then they were both taken with top 5 draft picks, gained after a season of crapness for Collingwood far worse than anything the Swans have dished up in the past decade. The system is one that rewards crapness if a club is smart enough to make the most of it.

Cloke is very promising and if he learns to kick straight at goal could become a very potent forward. He'd have been a first round draft pick had he not been a FS. His promise was known at junior level.

Shaw also looks to be a fine young player, but he was in his fourth year last year - so he's the equivalent of a Schmidt, not a DOK.

The only other two who made a real impact on Collingwood's success last year were Clarke and Goldsack. And while they were impressive, they were absolute first year players and have to show sustained development before they can be classed as very good prospects. It might happen - not saying it won't - but bear in mind that Bevan finished a very deserved 4th in the RS award in his debut season. When players first burst onto the scene you tend to see their strengths only. In subsequent seasons the opposition tends to identify their flaws and find ways to exploit them. Fans also tend to factor in a continued increase in development at the same pace - it rarely happens.

The rest of the Pies youngsters who played the odd game last year didn't really make that much difference and none looks totally convincing an as AFL prospect yet - the Iles, Cooks, Stanleys, Nichols, Tooveys, even Rusling (for all his undoubted pace on the lead).

If the Swans had a group in the wings with the pedigree of Cloke, Shaw, Thomas and Pendlebury, I'd agree with you that throwing them in the deep end might have a quick rejuvenating effect on the Swans. But I don't think we do have a group ready to make such an "instant" impact. Those who could make a difference in the longer term had - and still have - limitations and major areas of development that will take time before they're ready, if ever, to become good AFL players.

If you're Carlton or Richmond you play young players regardless of whether they really deserve a senior spot. And mostly because you have no good senior players and have been crap beyond crap for a sustained period. Some may become long term players but many others will never become good enough to win a spot in a top flight team. They're just getting games because there is no-one else.

liz, much as i see the sense in most of what you say, sometimes you sound like a mouthpiece for the club, or at least its recruiting team

no one actually knew how good any of those c'wood players were until they were given a run in the seniors
i know they were mostly high draft picks, but pendlebury even the pies concede was a bit of a gamble at No 5, and they copped a lot of criticism in some areas for going with him
but what about the likes of o'brien, clarke, goldsack, dick, rusling, egan, et al (i know i've missed a couple there) that have been played in seniors with great success in the past coupla years and were NOT so highly acclaimed
the point i'm making is we continue to NOT play kids, we hold them back or, in the case of a few, play them once or twice, then drop them again
what does that do to their confidence or development???
yet, as bedford (and myself) continue to point, an ongoing disappointment (dud, if you like) such as mcveigh just keeps on getting a run for no reason we can come up with
his field kicking is ordinary, he's weak under pressure, he's not hard at the ball, and we have several players of similar abilities who DO go hard at it, who are overlooked
it's infuriating to hear you or anyone else keep on peddling the line "why play kids for the sake of it" when the players in the team who are keeping the kids out aren't doing a better job
jesse white (just one example) kicked four goals (from memory) in a pre-season game last year, but was never a hope of a run in seniors during the season
why not? if he had injury problems, that's an answer, but as i said, he's just one example
why was jarred crouch or paul bevan played in the finals when crouch was obviously struggling and bevan consistently error-prone? why not have played a keiran jack, jarrad moore, young simpkin, anyone who'd been going okay in the seconds?

you seem to be blindly defending the senior team selection policy without acknowledging at all that we've now reached a critical point of stagnation, where we're forced to take the punt and play a bunch of kids in one season to see what they can offer us, or push on with the ageing bodies and risk losing these kids, untested, when they get fed up with lack of opportunity

i apologise if this comes across a bit garbled, i'm furiously typing off the top of my head because i'm sick of getting the same obtuse reactions

 

[rancidpants13]

First of all good on that person for posting here often, i enjoy reading her posts, and i dont care where or who she works for..

OK, now Roosy, what happened to our fast moving keep the ball going forward 2003/4 game plan?
In round 22 last season we played a young fast team on their own preferd game plan, it was argueably the best game of the year for us, why was it next week we reverted to negative slow football?
With a FWD line consisting of stars, why is that particually last season our mids kept kicking the ball to Hall when he was not only underdone but also out numberd?

this is a very poignant post

 

[ssfc0203]

do you have arthritis yet by any chance, rancid?

 

[bedford]

liz, much as i see the sense in most of what you say, sometimes you sound like a mouthpiece for the club, or at least its recruiting team

no one actually knew how good any of those c'wood players were until they were given a run in the seniors
i know they were mostly high draft picks, but pendlebury even the pies concede was a bit of a gamble at No 5, and they copped a lot of criticism in some areas for going with him
but what about the likes of o'brien, clarke, goldsack, dick, rusling, egan, et al (i know i've missed a couple there) that have been played in seniors with great success in the past coupla years and were NOT so highly acclaimed
the point i'm making is we continue to NOT play kids, we hold them back or, in the case of a few, play them once or twice, then drop them again
what does that do to their confidence or development???
yet, as bedford (and myself) continue to point, an ongoing disappointment (dud, if you like) such as mcveigh just keeps on getting a run for no reason we can come up with
his field kicking is ordinary, he's weak under pressure, he's not hard at the ball, and we have several players of similar abilities who DO go hard at it, who are overlooked
it's infuriating to hear you or anyone else keep on peddling the line "why play kids for the sake of it" when the players in the team who are keeping the kids out aren't doing a better job
jesse white (just one example) kicked four goals (from memory) in a pre-season game last year, but was never a hope of a run in seniors during the season
why not? if he had injury problems, that's an answer, but as i said, he's just one example
why was jarred crouch or paul bevan played in the finals when crouch was obviously struggling and bevan consistently error-prone? why not have played a keiran jack, jarrad moore, young simpkin, anyone who'd been going okay in the seconds?

you seem to be blindly defending the senior team selection policy without acknowledging at all that we've now reached a critical point of stagnation, where we're forced to take the punt and play a bunch of kids in one season to see what they can offer us, or push on with the ageing bodies and risk losing these kids, untested, when they get fed up with lack of opportunity

i apologise if this comes across a bit garbled, i'm furiously typing off the top of my head because i'm sick of getting the same obtuse reactions

couldn't have said it any better

 

[rancidpants13]

do you have arthritis yet by any chance, rancid?

no, why?

 

[rancidpants13]

couldn't have said it any better

nic fosdike has apparently wrenched a knee at training and is out for 4-6 weeks, meaning he's in real doubt for season star....apparently not medial ligament but he is going to miss for a while
another door opens for one of the young blokes

 

[FM0226]

liz, much as i see the sense in most of what you say, sometimes you sound like a mouthpiece for the club, or at least its recruiting team

no one actually knew how good any of those c'wood players were until they were given a run in the seniors
i know they were mostly high draft picks, but pendlebury even the pies concede was a bit of a gamble at No 5, and they copped a lot of criticism in some areas for going with him
but what about the likes of o'brien, clarke, goldsack, dick, rusling, egan, et al (i know i've missed a couple there) that have been played in seniors with great success in the past coupla years and were NOT so highly acclaimed...

That's probably a bit harsh on Liz, even though we might not shared some of her points, she does try to back up what she said (most of the time). Against Collingwood, especially the last two games, I actually thought it was the oldies that killed us - Rocca, Buckley and Burns saved his best games against us. And in terms of the regular season, Collingwood was pretty much on par with us.

I would probably use Brisbane as a better model of replacing and introducing talent into the senior squad than Collingwood - I still have doubts whether they could reproduce the same results as they have late in the season now that the likes of Buckley, Clement (and Wakelin?) have retired and the likes of Burns and Rocca another year older.

But obviously I would love to introduce a lot more of our younger players into the squad sooner rather than later and we must find game time for the likes of Laidlaw, Thorton and Moore . And Schmidt has to hold down a senior spot with significant game time (as oppose to last year). Fosdike's injury (from my unbiased view ) will only be good in the long run because that opens up a spot for a youngster and hopefully they will take it with both hands and make themselves undroppable.

My question. If Ben Matthews is really as good as a tagger that the coaching staff seem to value him as, why doesn't he take on the opposition best midfielder every game, instead of the third/fourth best midfielder?

 

[Corpuscles]

Although addressed to Liz ( and she probably make a better fist of reply later) may I have a go as not all of us see one side of the story?

Before that can I say if people have suspicion and inuendo about a poster then please have the courage, decency and respect to PM that poster and see whether they are privately prepared to divulge more about who they are or their identity or address dispell CT imaginings.

liz, much as i see the sense in most of what you say, sometimes you sound like a mouthpiece for the club, or at least its recruiting team

see above

no one actually knew how good any of those c'wood players were until they were given a run in the seniors
i know they were mostly high draft picks, but pendlebury even the pies concede was a bit of a gamble at No 5, and they copped a lot of criticism in some areas for going with him
but what about the likes of o'brien, clarke, goldsack, dick, rusling, egan, et al (i know i've missed a couple there) that have been played in seniors with great success in the past coupla years and were NOT so highly acclaimed
the point i'm making is we continue to NOT play kids, we hold them back or, in the case of a few, play them once or twice, then drop them again
what does that do to their confidence or development???
yet, as bedford (and myself) continue to point, an ongoing disappointment (dud, if you like) such as mcveigh just keeps on getting a run for no reason we can come up with
his field kicking is ordinary, he's weak under pressure, he's not hard at the ball, and we have several players of similar abilities who DO go hard at it, who are overlooked

You make good points but 2002 2003 GF showed massive deficiency with wobbles over reliance on unreliable Rocca and aging Buckley, Clement & presti near the end. Clokes and one Shaw doubtful SO THEY HAD TO take the rebuild and got Thomas at 2 and several very high picks! Different story when picking up 20-40 development players who have to learn at slower paced ACTAFL level

On the other hand Swans were near injury free, playing a gameplan that required committment tohighly drilled team dynamics. That squad got there becasue Roosey told those that were likely to be cut by Eade that he had faith in them and would back them.

Last year there were injuries so several got their chance. Baffling that Grundy & phillips were played early both underdone... but turn back the clock wouldn't they be the ones we all hoped would step up?

I thought Laidlaw was unlucky to be dropped after one game but it was getting on to the business end of the season. Not time for experimenting

it's infuriating to hear you or anyone else keep on peddling the line "why play kids for the sake of it" when the players in the team who are keeping the kids out aren't doing a better job
jesse white (just one example) kicked four goals (from memory) in a pre-season game last year, but was never a hope of a run in seniors during the season
why not? if he had injury problems, that's an answer, but as i said, he's just one example

When you have a players with experience and detailed knowledge of how the team plays and hoping to contest finals it is hard for young blokes prove they are worthy and more capable. I would suggest the coaching staff see MORE danger of pushing them too early and killing confidence than holding them back till they can kick on.... Malceski was a gun in 2's years before he got promoted when ready to hold his spot.

why was jarred crouch or paul bevan played in the finals when crouch was obviously struggling and bevan consistently error-prone? why not have played a keiran jack, jarrad moore, young simpkin, anyone who'd been going okay in the seconds

Finals is not the place for a young inexperience youngster to tag mature players orbe asked to sacrifice your game as a hard nut defender. Very doubtful wether any you nominate would have done better in the role. Jack coming of rookie status and couldn't play till elevated and Moore Simkin are midfield outsiders or forwards Not Mongrel Hard Back Pockets

you seem to be blindly defending the senior team selection policy without acknowledging at all that we've now reached a critical point of stagnation, where we're forced to take the punt and play a bunch of kids in one season to see what they can offer us, or push on with the ageing bodies and risk losing these kids, untested, when they get fed up with lack of opportunity

I think there were encouraging signs that they are trying to drip feed the younger ones into the side. I reckon many will find a permanent spot in 2008. But it is lot easier to join a strong winning team than be a young gun in a overly young side ask Murphy or Gibbs or many of the Doggies top 10 picks . Therefore try and give them winning experience where older players have ability to watch their back and help them with their example and leadership

i apologise if this comes across a bit garbled, i'm furiously typing off the top of my head because i'm sick of getting the same obtuse reactions

I look forward to reading Liz's obtuse agreement
But we don't agree on lots of other opinions

 

[ssfc0203]

no, why?

how much you typed and the suspected spontaneity of it all would surely have resulted in crippling arthritis, or a couple of fractures, at least..

at the risk of sounding cruel and twisted, finally another space opens up for younger players to break into the side.
didn't come out too sick and twisted, did it?

 

[rancidpants13]

Although addressed to Liz ( and she probably make a better fist of reply later) may I have a go as not all of us see one side of the story?

Before that can I say if people have suspicion and inuendo about a poster then please have the courage, decency and respect to PM that poster and see whether they are privately prepared to divulge more about who they are or their identity or address dispell CT imaginings.

FWIW I have met the person alluded to once or twice although don't know her well, but at that time she was nothing like receptionist nor employed by club. Although very passionate mature Swans fanatic and is well connected to highest eschelons of the club




see above



You make good points but 2002 2003 GF showed massive deficiency with wobbles over reliance on unreliable Rocca and aging Buckley, Clement & presti near the end. Clokes and one Shaw doubtful SO THEY HAD TO take the rebuild and got Thomas at 2 and several very high picks! Different story when picking up 20-40 development players who have to learn at slower paced ACTAFL level

On the other hand Swans were near injury free, playing a gameplan that required committment tohighly drilled team dynamics. That squad got there becasue Roosey told those that were likely to be cut by Eade that he had faith in them and would back them.

Last year there were injuries so several got their chance. Baffling that Grundy & phillips were played early both underdone... but turn back the clock wouldn't they be the ones we all hoped would step up?

I thought Laidlaw was unlucky to be dropped after one game but it was getting on to the business end of the season. Not time for experimenting



When you have a players with experience and detailed knowledge of how the team plays and hoping to contest finals it is hard for young blokes prove they are worthy and more capable. I would suggest the coaching staff see MORE danger of pushing them too early and killing confidence than holding them back till they can kick on.... Malceski was a gun in 2's years before he got promoted when ready to hold his spot.



Finals is not the place for a young inexperience youngster to tag mature players orbe asked to sacrifice your game as a hard nut defender. Very doubtful wether any you nominate would have done better in the role. Jack coming of rookie status and couldn't play till elevated and Moore Simkin are midfield outsiders or forwards Not Mongrel Hard Back Pockets




I think there were encouraging signs that they are trying to drip feed the younger ones into the side. I reckon many will find a permanent spot in 2008. But it is lot easier to join a strong winning team than be a young gun in a overly young side ask Murphy or Gibbs or many of the Doggies top 10 picks . Therefore try and give them winning experience where older players have ability to watch their back and help them with their example and leadership



I look forward to reading Liz's obtuse agreement
But we don't agree on lots of other opinions

i was not having a go personally at liz, and i was completely ignorant of all that stuff about the alleged swans receptionist
as i've said before, liz obviously knows her footy, i just don't agree with her on this particular point about oldies v kids
and the one thing i will take you to task over, corpuscles, is that of finals not being the place for kids
i'd have thought it was also definitely NOT the place for older players carrying, or just coming back from, serious ongoing injuries (leo, hall, crouch) ... leo and crouch were both exposed frequently in our finals loss to c'wood
it's hypothetical, of course, to say whether young blokes would've done better or worse
but leo, crouch, bevan and mathews were pretty poor in that game, and hall was ordinary all season

 

[liz]

liz, much as i see the sense in most of what you say, sometimes you sound like a mouthpiece for the club, or at least its recruiting team

etc etc


you seem to be blindly defending the senior team selection policy without acknowledging at all that we've now reached a critical point of stagnation, where we're forced to take the punt and play a bunch of kids in one season to see what they can offer us, or push on with the ageing bodies and risk losing these kids, untested, when they get fed up with lack of opportunity

Maybe respond to what I actually write, rather than what you seem to expect I post.

Never have I said the Swans shouldn't introduce some youngsters. I merely pointed out the weakness in your assertion that the Pies had provided some blueprint for easy success. Carlton and Richmond have been blooding far more kids for years than the Pies did last year. And look where it has got them. More years of crapness.

If you could be bothered to go back and read my posts throughout the year (I don't expect you to, I certainly wouldn't be bothered) you would see I was livid when Schmidt was made the scapegoat for a lacklustre midfield while a clearly unfit Buchanan, an out-of-sorts Jude and a wishy washy McVeigh continued to get gigs. The closest I ever got to swearing was probably connected with McVeigh.

But I actually watch our kids play every other week and there was nothing lurking there for most of the season that was likely to make an impact in the way the 2nd or 3rd year Pies did - maybe Laidlaw aside (and I was frequently pissed that he continued to be overlooked, and then was dropped after just the one game).

White did play some good football in the low-intensity pre-season but had you seen him for the reserves for most of the year, you wouldn't have been pushing his case. He came on nicely, showing decent progress and I am optimistic that he has a bright future. But his footy naivety would have been shown up big time had he been thrown in the deep end.

Barlow started the season well but then seemed to lose confidence and direction before recovering. Roos picked pretty much exactly the right time to blood him.

Moore rarely played above 3rd gear for most of the year, DOK was injured, Jack was back on the rookie list at the time his pace would have been most beneficial and the rest were, frankly, some way off a chance of senior footy.

Most of these guys were low picks or rookies. That is for a reason. It doesn't mean they're not AFL standard but they were newer to the game, physically less developed, or had important question marks over their heads (eg Laidlaw and his endurance).

Oh, and can we cut the crap about me being some mouthpiece for the club. I contribute my own opinions to this board based on my personal observations from watching lots of footy. I don't expect - or want - everyone to agree with anything I say but I do expect the respect given to others to be allowed to post their opinions without being accused of being a stooge. If I choose not to slag the club at every possibly occasion, maybe it is because I genuinely believe they are doing far more right than wrong in terms of player development and team selection.

And one more thing before I sign off this rant. No - I do not yet accept that the club is at the stage where it must accept a sink to the bottom and "rebuild" (shuddering at the word). The club still has sufficient quality experienced players to give the competition a big shake over the next year or so, IM ever so humble O. While they still have two of the most potent weapons in the competition, I believe they owe to themselves to field the most competitive - for now, not the future - team that they can. Once Hall calls it a day, or it becomes evident that 2007 wasn't a one-off but a sign that his body has had enough, I might start agreeing with you in this respect. But people seem to have ever so quickly forgotten how magnificent he was from 2003-2006 and I will not believe it is over until we see how he goes this year.

 

[rancidpants13]

Maybe respond to what I actually write, rather than what you seem to expect I post.

Never have I said the Swans shouldn't introduce some youngsters. I merely pointed out the weakness in your assertion that the Pies had provided some blueprint for easy success. Carlton and Richmond have been blooding far more kids for years than the Pies did last year. And look where it has got them. More years of crapness.

If you could be bothered to go back and read my posts throughout the year (I don't expect you to, I certainly wouldn't be bothered) you would see I was livid when Schmidt was made the scapegoat for a lacklustre midfield while a clearly unfit Buchanan, an out-of-sorts Jude and a wishy washy McVeigh continued to get gigs. The closest I ever got to swearing was probably connected with McVeigh.

But I actually watch our kids play every other week and there was nothing lurking there for most of the season that was likely to make an impact in the way the 2nd or 3rd year Pies did - maybe Laidlaw aside (and I was frequently pissed that he continued to be overlooked, and then was dropped after just the one game).

White did play some good football in the low-intensity pre-season but had you seen him for the reserves for most of the year, you wouldn't have been pushing his case. He came on nicely, showing decent progress and I am optimistic that he has a bright future. But his footy naivety would have been shown up big time had he been thrown in the deep end.

Barlow started the season well but then seemed to lose confidence and direction before recovering. Roos picked pretty much exactly the right time to blood him.

Moore rarely played above 3rd gear for most of the year, DOK was injured, Jack was back on the rookie list at the time his pace would have been most beneficial and the rest were, frankly, some way off a chance of senior footy.

Most of these guys were low picks or rookies. That is for a reason. It doesn't mean they're not AFL standard but they were newer to the game, physically less developed, or had important question marks over their heads (eg Laidlaw and his endurance).

Oh, and can we cut the crap about me being some mouthpiece for the club. I contribute my own opinions to this board based on my personal observations from watching lots of footy. I don't expect - or want - everyone to agree with anything I say but I do expect the respect given to others to be allowed to post their opinions without being accused of being a stooge. If I choose not to slag the club at every possibly occasion, maybe it is because I genuinely believe they are doing far more right than wrong in terms of player development and team selection.

And one more thing before I sign off this rant. No - I do not yet accept that the club is at the stage where it must accept a sink to the bottom and "rebuild" (shuddering at the word). The club still has sufficient quality experienced players to give the competition a big shake over the next year or so, IM ever so humble O. While they still have two of the most potent weapons in the competition, I believe they owe to themselves to field the most competitive - for now, not the future - team that they can. Once Hall calls it a day, or it becomes evident that 2007 wasn't a one-off but a sign that his body has had enough, I might start agreeing with you in this respect. But people seem to have ever so quickly forgotten how magnificent he was from 2003-2006 and I will not believe it is over until we see how he goes this year.

i am one of hall's biggest fans, i maintain hope that 07 was just a bad year
but both leo barry and jarryd crouch have shown more than just hints that their bodies are coming to an end re being able to meet the demands of senior football

as for reading through your posts, you're right, why would i bother when i'm responding to this particular thread
and the carlton/richmond efforts are irrelevant, the fact is c'wood know far more about their young talent than they did this time last year, whereas we know little
maybe one of the reasons some of the players you named were rarely out of third gear in the ACTFL was because they knew it didn;t matter how well they played, the best they could hope for was being named emergency, while varios crocks and flops continued to get a run in the seniors
this is NOT a new-season gripe, a lot of us were asking these questions midway through last year