Is Luke Darcy right about Fev?

[jazz]

The Hawthorn comparison is silly - did they trade anyone as good as Fevola for draft picks?

We traded Croad and got Hodge and Mitchell. Then we ended up getting Croad back

Whilst Fev is obviously a more talented player than Croad, at the time of his trade, Croad had more value than he does now.

 

[SA Blue]

It all depends on what is on the table.

I am not for shopping him around, but if the price is right, you have to listen.

 

[cjfc]

David Parkin suggested that first about a month ago. darcy is just a copy cat trying to act as though he is smart footy commentator

 

[PeeKay]

I think Fev could play on until at least he is 32-33. At F/F he's not in the play that much and he should last physically for many years.Although I think we need to start playing him at CHF and start developing another FF. We are deperately in need of strong CHF and it seems we are not going to have one up and running for at least the next 3-4 years.
Fev can pass the ball fantastic and can also kick a mile. A goal from the centre is not beond him on the right day.

 

[as0l0]

I think Fev could play on until at least he is 32-33. At F/F he's not in the play that much and he should last physically for many years.Although I think we need to start playing him at CHF and start developing another FF. We are deperately in need of strong CHF and it seems we are not going to have one up and running for at least the next 3-4 years.
Fev can pass the ball fantastic and can also kick a mile. A goal from the centre is not beond him on the right day.

wouldn't playing him at CHF shorten his career based on your conclusion that he isn't in the play much at FF?

 

[PeeKay]

If we were to TRADE Fevola a "MATCH WINNER", a "SUPERSTAR", a PLAYER WHO is in their PRIME, for a player who might or might not make it WOULD be the MOST STUPIDEST thing Carlton can do.
The Brendan Fevola is an absolute freak, and will be at Carlton all his life barring his misbehaviors.

History can tell us a lot. The Blues best sides of the 60's, 70's & 80's did not have a great F/F but the Blues have always had great Backlines, great Rucks and Great Midfielders (or rovers. and ruck rovers) During those years we relied mainly on everyone on the Forward line to kick the goals. Jezza, Sticks, Crosswell, Jackson, Ashman, Johnson and the list goes on. During those years we won 8 flags and were in at least 11 Grand Finals. I sometimes think that the teams with great F/F's rarely win Flags. Although the Hawks did have Dunstall, but then again the Hawks have always had great F/F's (Hudson)

 

[THEBLOODS85]

It's a very interesting point by Darcy and unlike some of others who have posted in this thread, not something I'd throw out of the water without a second thought. It's something I have thought about as well.

The answer of course is not definite but some points of consideration would be:

1. How far away we think we really are. Do we think we are close, i.e. next 3-4 year? Or if we are bit further away (>5), would Fevola really be going as good as he is at 32? Would he last that long? Remember he is only one indiscretion away from being sacked.

2. What really is put up on the market come trade time. If a top 5 pick is there with some other incentive, surely you'd have to give it some consideration.

3. Of course the whole 'who is going to kick our goals' argument. Can we afford to trade him and still win games of footy? Who can do that? Waite? Fisher? Edwards' development? Players we draft? If we had've kept Kennedy, it probably would've been a tad clearer.

4. The new Gold Coast franchise coming over would be loaded with picks in top 5 in 3 years. Fevola would be 29/30 then, should we ship him off then if he is playing? Would he last that long? Would he still command a pick in that range?

What a lot of you blokes are forgetting is that Fevola is ONE indiscretion away from being booted out of this club. Can we risk it?

Remember, no club is going to pay top value for him when a player is out of form, you have to bite the bullet after assessing your options and the market. We missed our chance with Whitnall when he came off a b&f. Is Fevola in the same boat?

All these things need to be considered and it's something I haven't got the answer to but its definitely not a notion I'd not even bother listening to like some of you others who have dismissed it outright.

Well on that assumption we may as well get rid of Stevens too......he is older than Fev!

 

[Kaladin Stormblessed]

Well on that assumption we may as well get rid of Stevens too......he is older than Fev!

Stevens' time is past, that was two years ago.

Note: I am NOT saying we should have traded him two years ago (heck he was practically our whole midfield!), I am saying if we wanted to make a call on it the time was 2 years ago.

Fevola's time (to make a call on him) is now. He is playing top footy, if you want to maximise your return then this is time whilst Stevens' time is gone. No one is going to pay top dollar for him now coming off a serious neck injury and not playing career best football.

 

[Pred_ator]

David Parkin suggested that first about a month ago. darcy is just a copy cat trying to act as though he is smart footy commentator

I reckon the Ox and Darcy have got a TAB phone account together.Rumour has it they're both taking pole dancing lessons for when their media careers go down the shitter.

 

[BlueYoss]

I wonder if all these people saying that Fev will be able to play until the age of 32-34 because at FF he doesn't have to run around much are the same ones who lambast him when he doesn't chase the ball all the way ball up the ground

 

[KazzaD]

History can tell us a lot. The Blues best sides of the 60's, 70's & 80's did not have a great F/F but the Blues have always had great Backlines, great Rucks and Great Midfielders (or rovers. and ruck rovers) During those years we relied mainly on everyone on the Forward line to kick the goals. Jezza, Sticks, Crosswell, Jackson, Ashman, Johnson and the list goes on. During those years we won 8 flags and were in at least 11 Grand Finals. I sometimes think that the teams with great F/F's rarely win Flags. Although the Hawks did have Dunstall, but then again the Hawks have always had great F/F's (Hudson)

Excellent point. Is putting all your faith in a big-goal-kicking FF what should be happening at this stage in the team's development? Realistically, the blues still have a few years to go before entertaining thoughts of finals so maybe we need to be putting more into development of other forwards to kick more goals.

Wouldn't like to see Fev traded anyway, though would have been happy for that to happen last year. Let's face it, he was a d***head for a while there. However, he has but in some very hard work in the last 8 weeks to drag himself up by his bootlaces and all credit to him

 

[Korn]

Once a player hits 30 years of age, it's a huge turning point of their football career, some players can still managed to play beyond 30, but some players cannot. You cannot predict if a player can play beyond 30 by looking at how well they play during their prime time (20's). You would have thought Lappin could play till he's 35 but he retired after the year he was chosen in the All-Australian team.

 

[Thrawn]

You also have to take into account how many times Fevola has been kneed, bumped, pushed to the ground, pummelled, knocked out, etc. He takes a lot of punishment because the defenders focus on him mostly. He is very durable but eventually all those hard knocks will catch up to him. If he can stay injury free then he might play until he is 34 but the older you get the harder it is to recover, even from simple niggles. Injury will compound this problem and shorten his career.

 

[lambo1629]

I'm not sure trading off Fev would be a smart move, he has won the goal kicking at carlton for the past 5 years and will more than likely win it again this year. whilst there has not been many other targets down forward for the blues, fev has done extremely well considering the delivery he has received over the past few years. to trade him now, already on his last chance, i think would be silly. if he mucks up again, then that might be it for Fev. Lets hope that never happens.

 

[Jimthegreat]

It's a very interesting point by Darcy and unlike some of others who have posted in this thread, not something I'd throw out of the water without a second thought. It's something I have thought about as well.

The answer of course is not definite but some points of consideration would be:

1. How far away we think we really are. Do we think we are close, i.e. next 3-4 year? Or if we are bit further away (>5), would Fevola really be going as good as he is at 32? Would he last that long? Remember he is only one indiscretion away from being sacked.

2. What really is put up on the market come trade time. If a top 5 pick is there with some other incentive, surely you'd have to give it some consideration.

3. Of course the whole 'who is going to kick our goals' argument. Can we afford to trade him and still win games of footy? Who can do that? Waite? Fisher? Edwards' development? Players we draft? If we had've kept Kennedy, it probably would've been a tad clearer.

4. The new Gold Coast franchise coming over would be loaded with picks in top 5 in 3 years. Fevola would be 29/30 then, should we ship him off then if he is playing? Would he last that long? Would he still command a pick in that range?

What a lot of you blokes are forgetting is that Fevola is ONE indiscretion away from being booted out of this club. Can we risk it?

Remember, no club is going to pay top value for him when a player is out of form, you have to bite the bullet after assessing your options and the market. We missed our chance with Whitnall when he came off a b&f. Is Fevola in the same boat?

All these things need to be considered and it's something I haven't got the answer to but its definitely not a notion I'd not even bother listening to like some of you others who have dismissed it outright.

I dismiss Darcy out of hand. I hate the saying "he won't be here for our next flag so let's get something for him". It's just very simple, dumb thinking. Maybe we won't win a flag for 10 years, let's trade the lot and get 38 18yo's!!!

How do you become a good side in the first place without you're best players? One big reason why Hawthorn developed quickly is that they had a core of experienced players to blend in with their youngsters. You don't go from zero to hero in one hit. It takes time to build that bridge and your better, more experienced players help that along. You keep trading for young draft picks and you'll always be developing but winning nothing. Trading Fev is a 2-3 setback. No-where are we going to find a forward that will kick 80+ goals, Especially one that can do that with half the opposition hanging off him. Not in a trade and definitely not in the draft in the short-term. A KP forward takes 3-4 years then you have to hope they turn out. Like giving away a blue chip stock for a very speculative one. Dumb as dogsh1t! Especially as we lack KP forwards as it is. Kennedy and Whitnall have gone (for good but different reasoms ) amd Waite's gone to CHB. Even a Digby Morrell would be handy up forward now as he had great work ethic and would take a man away from Fev. Seeing we don't have any of these guys now so Fev has to stay. I laugh in the face of anyone who says otherwise.

 

[Doza]

Are we seriously even debating this?

 

[Jimthegreat]

History can tell us a lot. The Blues best sides of the 60's, 70's & 80's did not have a great F/F but the Blues have always had great Backlines, great Rucks and Great Midfielders (or rovers. and ruck rovers) During those years we relied mainly on everyone on the Forward line to kick the goals. Jezza, Sticks, Crosswell, Jackson, Ashman, Johnson and the list goes on. During those years we won 8 flags and were in at least 11 Grand Finals. I sometimes think that the teams with great F/F's rarely win Flags. Although the Hawks did have Dunstall, but then again the Hawks have always had great F/F's (Hudson)

You forgot one thing. We always had champion CHF's during those successful times. 1970 we had Walls at CHF and Jezza kicking 115 goals at FF. 1972 GF Jezza kicked 7 from FF and Walls got 6. 1968 Brian Kekovich kicked a bucketload of goals from FF and we had Jezza. The other premierships years we had Maclure with Swan McKay in the pocket. plus in 1982 we had Ross Ditchburn average 5 goals a game including an equal club record 12 goals in one of those games. The big forwards are important.

 

[PeeKay]

I dismiss Darcy out of hand. I hate the saying "he won't be here for our next flag so let's get something for him". It's just very simple, dumb thinking. Maybe we won't win a flag for 10 years, let's trade the lot and get 38 18yo's!!!

How do you become a good side in the first place without you're best players? One big reason why Hawthorn developed quickly is that they had a core of experienced players to blend in with their youngsters. You don't go from zero to hero in one hit. It takes time to build that bridge and your better, more experienced players help that along. You keep trading for young draft picks and you'll always be developing but winning nothing. Trading Fev is a 2-3 setback. No-where are we going to find a forward that will kick 80+ goals, Especially one that can do that with half the opposition hanging off him. Not in a trade and definitely not in the draft in the short-term. A KP forward takes 3-4 years then you have to hope they turn out. Like giving away a blue chip stock for a very speculative one. Dumb as dogsh1t! Especially as we lack KP forwards as it is. Kennedy and Whitnall have gone (for good but different reasoms ) amd Waite's gone to CHB. Even a Digby Morrell would be handy up forward now as he had great work ethic and would take a man away from Fev. Seeing we don't have any of these guys now so Fev has to stay. I laugh in the face of anyone who says otherwise.

well put!

 

[PeeKay]

You forgot one thing. We always had champion CHF's during those successful times. 1970 we had Walls at CHF and Jezza kicking 115 goals at FF. 1972 GF Jezza kicked 7 from FF and Walls got 6. 1968 Brian Kekovich kicked a bucketload of goals from FF and we had Jezza. The other premierships years we had Maclure with Swan McKay in the pocket. plus in 1982 we had Ross Ditchburn average 5 goals a game including an equal club record 12 goals in one of those games. The big forwards are important.

I agree, but the FF is not the only player. It's worring me that we are always looking for fevola when we enter the forward 50. It's for a good reason because he is so strong and such an accurate kick. But somehow or another we have to get our selves to the stage where we are totally "unpredictabe" who we are going to kick it to in the forward 50. This can only come about in the future if we start now. That's why I would like to see Wiggins at FF and Fevola at CHF.
Fev could create havoc at CHF and Wiggins (believe it or not) is a very fast lead and as strong as Fev overhead.
The Bulldogs have Johnson in that type of role. Also by having some smaller strong players in the forward 50 gives us more chance of holding the ball in the 50 meter arc.

 

[SA HAWK]

I wouldn't be trading him if i was carlton unless he still has off field issues. I think you could be challenging for a flag in 2-3 years time when he will be around 30 which is not too old. Forwards of his calibre don't grow on trees.

 

[Tony_Soprano1111]

He better not be!!!! Fev is a superstar and as we know you need superstars to win premierships!!!! He deserves a premiership medal and we ARE going to win one in the next 3-5 years!!!!

Judd our next Premiership Captain!!!!

 

[TwoBlueEyes]

With Fev showing the football world how good he is on a massive stage, is Luke Darcy correct in saying that now is the right time for us to do a Hawthorn and get the best possible draftees for an aging gun forward.

Will Fev be there when we are a Top 4 side?
Will trading fev at the end of the year help us get Hurley or Rich to our club?

I bloody love Fev. He brings more to our club than just his freakish skills.

Thoughts ?

It's a very good question. It depends. Will Fev be there when we win our next premiership? Thats around 5 years away, Fev will be close to finishing by then.
Do we trade him and draft an 18 year old tall who by then will be a primed 22-23 who can grow with the current list of young players we have coming thru and maybe win us a few more?

This would only work if there was a team who thinks they're close to a flag and can still accomodate us with a high top 8 pick.. also providing there are good key talls in the draft. We have mids so don't need any more of those.

 

[btdg]

It's a very good question. It depends. Will Fev be there when we win our next premiership? Thats around 5 years away, Fev will be close to finishing by then.
Do we trade him and draft an 18 year old tall who by then will be a primed 22-23 who can grow with the current list of young players we have coming thru and maybe win us a few more?

This would only work if there was a team who thinks they're close to a flag and can still accomodate us with a high top 8 pick.. also providing there are good key talls in the draft. We have mids so don't need any more of those.

Why would you assume that our next premiership is 5 years away? We are in the mix for finals this year. We should be expecting finals next year, and top 4 the year after, considering the youth of our list and the rate of improvement left in us. I don't see why competing for a premiership isn't an option in 2 years time?

The way I see it, we probably get near the top in 2 years time with Fev still in his peak, Judd and Stevens leading the midfield as senior players, and a young crew including Murphy, Gibbs etc forming the bulk of the list. Then we drop off for a year or so, followed by a rise back to the top as Murphy and co turn 24-25. We might snatch an early premiership in that window (remember how close Geelong were in 2005?). Our chances are far better with Fev than without

If we trade Fev, chances are we get 70 cents on the dollar given his history and the fact that there are very few players of his calibre in the league anyway. Why bother?

 

[TwoBlueEyes]

Why would you assume that our next premiership is 5 years away? We are in the mix for finals this year. We should be expecting finals next year, and top 4 the year after, considering the youth of our list and the rate of improvement left in us. I don't see why competing for a premiership isn't an option in 2 years time?

The way I see it, we probably get near the top in 2 years time with Fev still in his peak, Judd and Stevens leading the midfield as senior players, and a young crew including Murphy, Gibbs etc forming the bulk of the list. Then we drop off for a year or so, followed by a rise back to the top as Murphy and co turn 24-25. We might snatch an early premiership in that window (remember how close Geelong were in 2005?). Our chances are far better with Fev than without

If we trade Fev, chances are we get 70 cents on the dollar given his history and the fact that there are very few players of his calibre in the league anyway. Why bother?

I'm thinking long term, rather than the 'Pagan styled quick fix' approach... which we all known doesn't work. I'd rather we build for a Premiership team that can win multiple rather than a strong finals contender who is always there abouts (Collingwood) but rarely win.
I love fev like all of us but I want our club to remain strong for a long period of time rather than make a Grand Final only to be beaten by that other team, whom may have taken longer to build than us, but had the better team at the end of the day because they made those tough calls years ago, ala Hawthorn.
I'm a realist and we still have a ways to go. Our backline needs time to develop and so too our rucks. Realistically, do you think the players in our best 22 now will be the calibre of Geelongs 2007 team in 2-3 years time?
It's all good sticking up for our club and players but there comes a time when we need to take off the navy blue glasses and compare ourselves against the best, which ultimately is what we all want the Blues to be.

 

[Mike_blues]

are we seriously debating this?
fev is goin no where
he'll be at carlton till he retires and in the meantime we can work on another key forward in the next 5 years