So how was McIntyre's analysis wrong exactly? Where did he accuse Biffa of cherry picking data? All real climate did was regurgitate a bunch of stuff not related to what McIntyre is looking at.
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Society/Culture Historical temperature record proving climate change a result of fraudulent statistics?
- Thread starter simpleton
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Using real climate to defend the hockey stick is like getting a tobacco executive to defend the benefits of smoking.
And dippers donuts, do some more searching in regards to glaciers and especially Antarctica (don't ignore East Antarctica). You might actually learn a thing or two on climate change.
And dippers donuts, do some more searching in regards to glaciers and especially Antarctica (don't ignore East Antarctica). You might actually learn a thing or two on climate change.
- Banned
- #28
^^ Yeah, god forbid that the scientists working in the field would comment about unprofessional criticisms of their work.
So you entirely missed the point that even without the Yamal rings all the other proxies show the same general "hockey stick" blade?
Briffa has taken the time to offer a brief statement on the technical matters of McIntyre's, despite being quite sick atm, and politely overlooks the slanderous implications of McIntyre's blog post.
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/people/briffa/yamal2000/
So you entirely missed the point that even without the Yamal rings all the other proxies show the same general "hockey stick" blade?
Briffa has taken the time to offer a brief statement on the technical matters of McIntyre's, despite being quite sick atm, and politely overlooks the slanderous implications of McIntyre's blog post.
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/people/briffa/yamal2000/
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~ Shmalpha ~
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- #29
And the Yamal data still hasn't been proven 'bad'. McIntyre is firing blanks until his work is properly and thoroughly reviewed.
It is surprisingly easy to sow doubt using pseudo-science. It is very hard to build confidence with thorough, and often deadly boring, science.
But I know which one I trust to give us a clearer model of how the universe actually works.
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Of what relevance are those proxies to what McIntyre is demonstrating? I think you will find that not all proxies show the same general hockey stick.
McIntyre has a response to Briffa as well. Actually no he does accuse him of something that McIntyre refutes quite well.
http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7257
It easy to sow doubt by refusing to release data and methodologys.
The more you get into this the more suspect it actually appears.
Apparently the methodology is suspect statistic wise.
It really boils down to one tree with a sigma of 8, (Yad06)
Tree lines are a more accurate proxy of temperature than tree rings.
Biffra 2000 does not match what went on in the tree lines.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2606780/figure/fig12/
Interesting that the tree lines today are still way below the MWP.
Some good reading.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2606780/
Cherry picking data sets to prove a point is "bad".
So who do you trust for the clearer model? Cherry pickers or those that want access to all available data.
So far, Steve McIntyre has corrected the ipcc on the Medieval Warm Period and The Little Ice Ageas well as NASA on North American Temperature. So far, his use of your so-called "pseudo-science" is adhering very well to the Scientific method and not the "actual method" used so effectively by the ipcc etc.
Here's another analogy: Using real climate to defend the hockey stick is like having the vatican defend the flat Earth theory against Copernicus and Galileo.
Is that the same as saying "If you keep scoring against me, I'll take my ball and go home!"
Basically as the temps get colder the trees at higher latitudes and altitudes die.
http://www.nosams.whoi.edu/PDFs/papers/Holocene_v12a.pdf
It appears that YAD06 - the Most Influential Tree in the World
does not correspond with the local thermometer readings.
Heavens forbid that would be like real climate scientists discussing climate science. What next!
What part of accelerating ice sheet melt do you not get?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090612092741.htm
ScienceDaily (June 13, 2009) — The Greenland ice sheet is melting faster than expected, according to a new study led by a University of Alaska Fairbanks researcher and published in the journal Hydrological Processes.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090924/ice_melt_090924/20090924?hub=SciTech
WASHINGTON — New satellite information shows that ice sheets in Greenland and western Antarctica continue to shrink faster than scientists thought and in some places are already in runaway melt mode.
The real concern is when the feedbacks from this melting kicks in and the process continues to accelerate until its unstoppable.
Oh you mean the data that is freely available? I see.
Freely available after they accidently released it...
IIRC Briffa himself has talked of issues regarding tree rings diverging from temperature records. I think the IPCC has also said itself in the past that some proxies are suspect for the reasons you mentioned.
This surely throws in to question splining proxies on to the instrumental record.
Heavens forbid that would be like real climate scientists discussing climate science. What next!
What part of accelerating ice sheet melt do you not get?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090612092741.htm
ScienceDaily (June 13, 2009) — The Greenland ice sheet is melting faster than expected, according to a new study led by a University of Alaska Fairbanks researcher and published in the journal Hydrological Processes.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090924/ice_melt_090924/20090924?hub=SciTech
WASHINGTON — New satellite information shows that ice sheets in Greenland and western Antarctica continue to shrink faster than scientists thought and in some places are already in runaway melt mode.
The real concern is when the feedbacks from this melting kicks in and the process continues to accelerate until its unstoppable.
A lot has changed since 2007. Rhodes Fairbridge predicted the world would cool from 2007 in 1960 odd.
http://www.griffith.edu.au/conference/ics2007/pdf/ICS176.pdf
Solarcycle 24 is now 2 1/2 years late starting and the Sun is the quietest it has been in 200 years.
- Banned
- #44
Yet this year recorded the second warmest June, the warmest July, and the warmest August on record. Just as the world is moving back into an El Nino cycle too, go figure...
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Depends on which temp record you use.
- Banned
- #46
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Sea surface temps have increased temporarily with the falling wind speeds (less mixing).
It has certainly been very cold at the high latitudes.
El nino will probably be a fizzer through lack of energy from the Sun.
There was apparently a big El nino just before the LIA.
El nino's actually cool off the earth.
The Sun heats the oceans
Heat from the oceans heats the atmosphere.
Atmosphere loses heat to space.
It is the only way out for the heat in the oceans.
It must be an exciting time for the scientist's with all this happening in real time. There will be heaps of new stuff learn't and we should get a better handle on how things work.
- Banned
- #50
Temporary you say?
I'm glad we have your word for it...
And El Nino cooling the globe? So what caused the 1998 temp spike then? El Nina's, however, do cool the globe, which explains why we haven't set any record temps since 1998. We'll just see what happens over the next year or two.
I'm glad we have your word for it...
And El Nino cooling the globe? So what caused the 1998 temp spike then? El Nina's, however, do cool the globe, which explains why we haven't set any record temps since 1998. We'll just see what happens over the next year or two.
