Hawthorn's Premeirship tally - A result of zoning and nothing else

[Hodgepodge]

Chewy's made a mess of your troll there, Felchoon.

 

[QuietB]

None of this explains why the Saints have only won one?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

As I said in my initial post, for years and years, Geelong had the greatest recruiting ground of all Victorian clubs.

Can you tell us why, or have any evidence? I read a while ago that we had one of the weakest zones.

Whining about the "free kicks" handed out to certain successful clubs is a losers' game, so this is why your St Kilda allegiance becomes relevant to this discussion.

Why do you do it all the time?

 

[Falchoon]

Chewy's made a mess of your troll there, Felchoon.

sure he has Mr Neutral, the only cliche he missed was tall poppy syndrome

 

[OneEyedHawk]

Felchoon...

 

[Chewy]

Can you tell us why, or have any evidence? I read a while ago that we had one of the weakest zones.

Do your own research. Stop asking me to give you all the answers, Doris. If you disagree with my comment, then please provide evidence or reasons why.

Why do you do it all the time?

Hahaha, I knew you'd bite on that

I moan about Geelong's free kicks because they win all the time and I'm always barracking against them

Loser's game. See?

Hawthorn won the Grand Final in 2008. I didn't moan too much about the pathetic umpiring in that game because we won. Had we lost I would've said more about the erroneous 50m penalty awarded to Ablett and the goals Hawthorn were robbed when Franklin and Roughead marked in front of goal, but were penalised because stage-actors like Matty Scarlett fell over.

Winners are grinners, see?

But this is getting off topic. We're all adults here and know what was meant by "free kicks" (in inverted commas)
In other words, don't give up your day job, Doris. Leave the gags to hodgepodge.

 

[Chewy]

sure he has Mr Neutral, the only cliche he missed was tall poppy syndrome

Well, you continually ignore every salient point I make in reply to your ignorant and illogical comments
So I guess that makes you an expert on "missing things"

And most cliches are cliches because they are true...

 

[Falchoon]

Here's a question I don't know the answer to:
Were the St Kilda players using performance-enhancing drugs in 2009?

Here's another question I don't know the answer to:
Was that Falchoon I saw emerging from the public toilets and wiping semen from his lips?

Don't try to come the raw prawn with me... You were casting aspersions.

Based on the Loveridge scenario, it has potential, how much i don't know, as I said earlier should I do my thesis on Hawthorns recruiting I will look it up, I must say you boys seem overly keen on avoiding the question.

Simpleton? I thought I made it clear. St Kilda also recruited good players from their country zones, but because of poor junior development, poor coaching, poor club culture and poor finances, they were unable to achieve success.

3 times as many 16 year olds as Collingwood

put we'll call it "culture"

Your analogy of Ogilvy receiving a one hole head start is nothing but plain bollocks. I already mentioned Essendon as an example. They recruited a lot of good players from their country zones, but unlike St Kilda, they were able to do something with it and won two flags in the 80's.

Essendon also had the Northern suburb growth areas. I'm arguing demographics, you're arguing footballers.

As I said in my initial post, for years and years, Geelong had the greatest recruiting ground of all Victorian clubs.

As I said earlier, Hawthorn had the biggest free kick in AFL/VFL history

Whining about the "free kicks" handed out to certain successful clubs is a losers' game, so this is why your St Kilda allegiance becomes relevant to this discussion. People like you choose to ignore the many reasons why a football club wins the flag and you focus on the "free kicks" instead.

You could find "unfair" reasons for EVERY premiership, goose.

what was Hawthorns in 2008?

[*]2008 - Hawthorn - priority picks and exploiting the loophole with rushed behinds

I'll think you'll find priority picks are open to all, 6 or 7 clubs have more than one and the rushed behind is open to all, I see no issue there.

Looks nothing more than muddying the water (again), as opposed to only one metropolitan area being zoned as country.

Agree on the Swans and Lions zone picks btw, an extra 5% (or 20% for the Lions) is always handy in a competition designed to be even.


Zone pick

If St Kilda win the flag in 2010, should all of us dismiss it, or place an asterisk next to it because of all the daft picks the Saints have harvested?

Freud?

I'll think you'll find the likes of Carlton and Melbourne are well ahead of us in draft picks, no one else had a metro country zone.

If St Kilda had won the last 10 flags my argument would remain the same, yet yours would differ, hence the simpleton line on your line of tack.

 

[Falchoon]

Well, you continually ignore every salient point I make in reply to your ignorant and illogical comments
So I guess that makes you an expert on "missing things"

And most cliches are cliches because they are true...

If I'm ignoring your salient points it's because I'm missing them amongst the Saints twaddle

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

How do you figure? He just admitted he can't withstand a bit of jealousy without jumping ship. Not too many ways to take that, I would've thought...

He just admitted that he's aware of the Saints shortcomings, and it would be easy for him to jump on a successful team's bandwagon like so many 25-35yo Hawks supporters did.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Do your own research. Stop asking me to give you all the answers, Doris. If you disagree with my comment, then please provide evidence or reasons why.

How about I just say you're wrong? Why provide evidence to refute something that has no evidence to prove it?

Hahaha, I knew you'd bite on that

I moan about Geelong's free kicks because they win all the time and I'm always barracking against them

Loser's game. See?

Hawthorn won the Grand Final in 2008. I didn't moan too much about the pathetic umpiring in that game because we won. Had we lost I would've said more about the erroneous 50m penalty awarded to Ablett and the goals Hawthorn were robbed when Franklin and Roughead marked in front of goal, but were penalised because stage-actors like Matty Scarlett fell over.

Winners are grinners, see?

But this is getting off topic. We're all adults here and know what was meant by "free kicks" (in inverted commas)
In other words, don't give up your day job, Doris. Leave the gags to hodgepodge.

Relax Chewy.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Felchoon...

I was wondering if anybody would get that one.

 

[QuietB]

Hawthorn's success was a result of having the most professional and best culture of any club through the 70's, 80's and early 90's.

Proof of this is the Hawks released arguably the greatest player to ever play the game because he didn't fit in with the Hawthorn "culture" and the fallout from this was the Hawks went on to win 5 of the next 9 premierships.

 

[dymmot]

Hawthorn's success was a result of having the most professional and best culture of any club through the 70's, 80's and early 90's.

Proof of this is the Hawks released arguably the greatest player to ever play the game because he didn't fit in with the Hawthorn "culture" and the fallout from this was the Hawks went on to win 5 of the next 9 premierships.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Nice atempt to bend the facts there like a true Hawthorn Flog! If you are going to talk about the early 90s I'd suggest West Coast>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Daylight>>>>>>>>>>>>awkthorn in terms of professionalism.

 

[Falchoon]

Proof of this is the Hawks released arguably the greatest player to ever play the game because he didn't fit in with the Hawthorn "culture" and the fallout from this was the Hawks went on to win 5 of the next 9 premierships.

Proof of the depth of talent available through the Hawthorn zone. Stewie Loewe was another.

 

[Rioli magic]

If only Doris and Felch knew what it was like to see soooooo many flags. The crybaby whinging in this thread just rekindles the enjoyment and reaffirms that I've had a much greater time watching football than you flogs. Suffer for supporting shit clubs.

 

[Frankston Rover]

Yeah and, yet again, we end up back at the same point of the argument: If we're rejecting Stewart Loewe's why can't you name me any decent Mornington Peninsula players aside from Matthews, Mew, Moore and Brereton?

You can waffle, bitch and moan all you like about population shifts, migration, El Nino, country productivity or suicide rates all you like but the facts are:

- You're country zone has a greater history of success than ours did.

- You're country zone had more people than ours did when Zoning kicked off

- You're club got Danny Frawley, Tony Lockett, Trevor Barker, Jeff Dunne, Greg Burns, Graeme Gellie, Jeff Sarau, Barry Breen, Gary Colling all thru your zones. Hardly pisspoor.

- you're club had a party culture.

- you're club, in the early 80's, was BROKE.

You had the players but your development was shithouse, you had no cash to entice interstate stars and your culture in general was horrible.

Hawthorn on the other hand had Tuck play FIFTY (yes 50) reserves games.

You crap on like he walked into the club and was an immediate star.

Time to let it go man. You can try and spin it any way you like but my club got itself organised while many others still fumbled around like it was 1930.

We grew (I'd even say started) the professionalism of VFL football.

You're club was still handing out tinnies and getting pissed on Friday nights in 1986.

No wonder you got nowhere. No good blaming us for yours, and many other clubs, shortcomings.

 

[Falchoon]

- You're country zone had more people than ours did when Zoning kicked off

Bollocks, you dismissed your parts of Keysborough/Doveton and didn't even mention the shire of Mordialloc.

5 years later you'd almost doubled

- You're club got Danny Frawley, Tony Lockett, Trevor Barker, Jeff Dunne, Greg Burns, Graeme Gellie, Jeff Sarau, Barry Breen, Gary Colling all thru your zones. Hardly pisspoor.

- you're club had a party culture.

- you're club, in the early 80's, was BROKE.

You had the players but your development was shithouse, you had no cash to entice interstate stars and your culture in general was horrible.

The whole premise of your argument here is total crap, the Saints along with melbourne were the worst performed team of the 70's - 80's. You were a 100% better than those two teams not the 25% or so that your inflated zone gave you.

Hawthorn on the other hand had Tuck play FIFTY (yes 50) reserves games.

You crap on like he walked into the club and was an immediate star.

I crap on that your zone gave you extra depth other clubs did not have, at both the top level and the bottom level, you certainly had 3 times the choice of youngsters as some of your competitors. The Tuck/Dipper scenario hardly disproves that.

and we haven't even argued the accessability of those youngsters.

Under an hour Franga to Glenferrie back in the day? Train & tram. 8 hours Mildura to Punt Road?

Time to let it go man. You can try and spin it any way you like but my club got itself organised while many others still fumbled around like it was 1930.

time to admit you had a massive advantage.

We grew (I'd even say started) the professionalism of VFL football.

Everything you say is tinted hawthorn, I'd guess everything you read is too, got an independent source on that.

You're club was still handing out tinnies and getting pissed on Friday nights in 1986.

My club is irrelevant in the discussion, if Richmond had the MPNFL & the SWGFL and an extra 5 flags we'd still be last, I don't see the difficulty in understanding that line of argument Franga?

where's that bay 13 flowchart gone?

No wonder you got nowhere. No good blaming us for yours, and many other clubs, shortcomings.

Again, false premise, no point arguing with your imaginary friend, it leads to you arguing in circles.

The first real GF I remember clearly is '89, I know a lot of my contemporaries were swayed by success - soft.

Speaking of, any news on that inner eastern zones ability to offer sporting scholarships, is that part of your taking the lead in professionalism?

Just for my own amusement given I again brought up potential (non validated) benefits from your metro zone

Irrelevent.

This thread is titled:

"Hawthorn's Premeirship tally - A result of zoning and nothing else"

If you want you can start a new one called:

"Hawthorn's Premeirship tally - I'm Grasping At Straws Now"

 

[Ant_]

Yeah and, yet again, we end up back at the same point of the argument: If we're rejecting Stewart Loewe's why can't you name me any decent Mornington Peninsula players aside from Matthews, Mew, Moore and Brereton?

Healy brothers and Robert Harvey come to mind.

 

[Frankston Rover]

Any time you want to give me the names of anyone we drafted from Doveton, Mordialloc or Keysborough feel free to post them.

Hawthorn, under Kennedy's Commandos were the first to dedicate themsleves to massive preseason training. It's not tinted Hawthorn - it's the truth.

We started our own methods to train, nurture and develop a team ethos that translated onto the field. Many other clubs did not.

You've mentioned Richmond - a once proud club that, since developing poor off-field leadership has seen their successes dry up. Their culture is in many way similar to a lot of clubs who aren't successful.

But yeah, it's all down to our player factories in Longwarry that Hawthorn 'jagged' 5 flags.

I was born in '77 and went to the 83 Grand Final as a Hawthorn supporter. I was never 'swayed'. I was born a Hawthorn supporter.

 

[Frankston Rover]

Healy brothers and Robert Harvey come to mind.

Haely brothers were from Edi-Asp and went to Melbourne.

Harvey and Burke were from Seaford and Pines.

None were ever tied to Hawthorn.

 

[Ant_]

Haely brothers were from Edi-Asp and went to Melbourne.

Harvey and Burke were from Seaford and Pines.

None were ever tied to Hawthorn.

Edi Rovers first for the Healy boys. Just mentioned other good players in the zone.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

If only Doris and Felch knew what it was like to see soooooo many flags. The crybaby whinging in this thread just rekindles the enjoyment and reaffirms that I've had a much greater time watching football than you flogs. Suffer for supporting shit clubs.

Sure, what if everyone just went for the side with the most flags? Wouldn't that make things......boring.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I was born in '77 and went to the 83 Grand Final as a Hawthorn supporter. I was never 'swayed'. I was born a Hawthorn supporter.

Weren't you originally a Saints supporter?

 

[Frankston Rover]

Weren't you originally a Saints supporter?

My Dad's a Saints fan but he's never been passionate. My uncle was Hawthorn mad. I chose the Hawks, went to the GF in 83 and the rest is history.

But let's not take the focus of what this thread is really about.