Scott Camporeale

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Thank god they cooperated or else we wouldve been punished unfairly :s.

Not sure how much simpler you can be over this.

We had no way of knowing what the penalties would be. Collins was simply trying to show some goodwill, hoping the AFL would go easy on us because we cooperated with them and because we had got rid of the main offenders that oversaw the breaches. He probably underestimated how keen they were to make an example out of us, but the motivation was fine.

We did the crime in the end. The penalties were excessive, but in the end you can only blame the people that put us into a position where we able to be found guilty.

I reckon you have been listening to someone with a very one eyed agenda, since you are too young to have a club what happened from your own recollection.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I do agree though that Collins is completely self serving. .. His dodgy dealings in the commissioning of The Docklands and then the contract he had the club sign under the guise assisting the club mean I have no time for him. ..

That's all fine. Collo and Docklands is a separate issue entirely to how late 2002 unfolded.

People need to not lump the two things in together.

Collo was a premiership player for us, and we only know the end result of the Docklands contract. We don't really know how it unfolded, except that he supposedly was not involved in negotiations on behalf of Carlton or Docklands. On that basis, if someone can kind of forgive Elliot for bringing us to our knees, they should rightfully kind of forgive a former premiership player for something we do not possess all the details about.

 

[bluepride]

Instead of pointing the finger at people who told the truth, why don't you point the finger at the people who presided over the wrongdoing and then lied about it?

The people who presided over it have copped their fair whack, but I just hate the fact you have been misformed and disbelieve reasons behind them speaking out.

 

[bluepride]

We had no way of knowing what the penalties would be. Collins was simply trying to show some goodwill, hoping the AFL would go easy on us because we cooperated with them and because we had got rid of the main offenders that oversaw the breaches. He probably underestimated how keen they were to make an example out of us, but the motivation was fine.

We did the crime in the end. The penalties were excessive, but in the end you can only blame the people that put us into a position where we able to be found guilty.

I reckon you have been listening to someone with a very one eyed agenda, since you are too young to have a club what happened from your own recollection.

Ron Evans was overseeing most of it, and the AFL were going to make an example of us as an act of denunciation but also deterrence (which was clear to everyone) and not a reason as to why SOS and Braddley blabbed but like most here you are just going off what youve heard and seen in the paper. If we thought we were going to be let off lightly whether or not we co-operated would be silly.

I may be in my early 20s but I know that SOS and Braddley helped the AFL out in investigations for reasons that were more important than goodwill and I have a feeling that you think so to.

The players wouldve known they may have be outcasted if they went ahead and had reasons more important than goodwill to pursue it.

Not sure how much later, but God didnt like the fact his favorite team wasnt doing so well and struck down Ron.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Bluepride, you say a lot without really saying anything. Until you actually come out and say what you have been told happens, then this debate will go in circles.

Until that actually happens, I will remain convinced you are making things up.

You say yourself that we would not have been let off lightly whether we cooperated or not, so in essence you believe our penalty would have still been severe, AND we would still have more skeletons in our closet that could still come out for further punishment.

Think about it for a moment.

 

[bluepride]

Bluepride, you say a lot without really saying anything. Until you actually come out and say what you have been told happens, then this debate will go in circles.

Until that actually happens, I will remain convinced you are making things up.

You say yourself that we would not have been let off lightly whether we cooperated or not, so in essence you believe our penalty would have still been severe, AND we would still have more skeletons in our closet that could still come out for further punishment.

Think about it for a moment.

SOS, Bradley and Brown were told by the AFL themselves that if they didn't present evidence that the ATO would be called in (even though they hadn't been made the payments yet).

More skeletons how? The players werdng showing off anymore rules we had breached, they were just used as physical of the evidence of the rules we had already breached.

If they hadnt gone forward, how would we still have 'skeletons'.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

First, can you please consider your phrasing a little before hitting reply, because it is becoming harder to work out what you are saying.

Secondly, are you serious?

 

[Dramoth]

Thank god they cooperated or else we wouldve been punished unfairly :s.

Umm... they could have actually revoked Carlton's club registration for the level of our salary cap infringements. So, by Braddles and SoS coming forward and cooperating with the AFL, we were seen to be compliant and the AFL factored in that the club was coming clean.

If Elliott had still in charge when the AFL came to handing down their decision, with the level of resentment that the AFL had towards him, it is a good chance that the penalties would have been much harsher and the club would have been well and truly screwed.

 

[bluepride]

Umm... they could have actually revoked Carlton's club registration

They had the power to.. of course.

There was 0% chance of that occupying.

 

[Claypigeon]

They had the power to.. of course.

There was 0% chance of that occupying any part of my pea brained lunch box world I live in.

EFA & to make more sense

 

[mediumsizered]

I do agree though that Collins is completely self serving. .. His dodgy dealings in the commissioning of The Docklands and then the contract he had the club sign under the guise assisting the club mean I have no time for him. ..

This is where Collins is so harshly & wrongly judged. The AFL were the ones who were pushing the move all the way. They had an underperforming stadium (let's not forget one day it will belong to them) & a club which was on a financial precipice.

The AFL waved an extremely enticing carrot at the club, at a time when those trying to pay the bills had no idea where the revenue was going to come from. Our sponsorship book was looking very sad. None of our wealthy supporters were looking at tipping in any money to help us & Princes Park had become very rundown & we could not afford to maintain it. Worse still, the AFL wouldn't even guarantee to schedule a set number of games at Princes Park. Unfortunately we were not in a very good bargaining position & the AFL knew that (we have Elliott to thank for this).

I think what many supporters forget about with Collins was that he was the only Carlton person who had the balls to take on Elliott. No-one else was prepared to take him on because of his influence with the big end of town. For Collins, he didn't need to stay in good with the big-end of town, he was his own man & good on him for that.

The sad part is, & this in no way devalues the great work Dick Pratt did in returning our club to a financially healthy situation, neither he nor Bruce Mathieson, nor other wealthy supporters seemed prepared to do something to stop our once proud club from heading down the 'Fitzroy road'. We became beholden to the AFL because of this. Financially dependent on the AFL.

I don't blame Collins for us ending up at Docklands. I put the blame squarely at the feet of John Elliott. We wouldn't have needed to move to Docklands if Elliott had not run our club into the ground.

 

[TNBT]

Im a bit younger than that .

I just know a bit about football before my time.

I don't get to many live games, but I watch a lot of footy on television and I try to educate myself on the history of the club. The problem is that until recently (well, until I stumbled upon BigFooty actually), I only really knew about what happened on the field. I wasn't really that into stuff like player payments and the board and so on.

Thank you to the few of you who have filled me in on what happened though. Very interesting stuff.

 

[sydjackson]

Bluepride, you say a lot without really saying anything. Until you actually come out and say what you have been told happens, then this debate will go in circles.

Until that actually happens, I will remain convinced you are making things up.You say yourself that we would not have been let off lightly whether we cooperated or not, so in essence you believe our penalty would have still been severe, AND we would still have more skeletons in our closet that could still come out for further punishment.

Think about it for a moment.

If you go back through Bluepride's contributions over time you will find that he has been "outed" several times as a major fantasist. Nothing he has ever claimed (and he has claimed lots!) has ever been evidenced - absolutely nothing! He loves to name drop, particularly about his Dad who supposedly played over 200 games for the Blues but can't be identified. Recently bp tells us he is of Greek parentage - have we had a lot of Greek players who clocked up more than 200? Or did any of our 200+ players father a child 22 years ago with a Greek woman, who then mysteriously left the relationship? Apparently now he is even having polite conversations with SOS at kiddie games despite living on the Gold Coast! Unfortunately getting "outed" over these monstrous fibs doesn't stop him - he just waits awhile, goes quiet, then comes roaring back with more fibs. You can depend on it.

 

[raymagoo]

My memory is that he left because of Collins who thought every player should wear our jumper for nothing and refused to negotiate (he did it to Allen as well and could have lost Kouta).

IMO the Collins years were the worst in our history, he did more damage to the club than any previous president (including big Jack who always, at least, bled for the club).

Should be nicknamed "ankles".

he's been at our club for about 3 months and you already have it in for him! poor andy!

Campo great player, but turned into a cheap kick getter, then worse, a traitor!

IMO was nearly a great but wont be remembered as one

 

[Claypigeon]

That's all fine. Collo and Docklands is a separate issue entirely to how late 2002 unfolded.

People need to not lump the two things in together.

Collo was a premiership player for us, and we only know the end result of the Docklands contract. We don't really know how it unfolded, except that he supposedly was not involved in negotiations on behalf of Carlton or Docklands. On that basis, if someone can kind of forgive Elliot for bringing us to our knees, they should rightfully kind of forgive a former premiership player for something we do not possess all the details about.

Fair enough. .. you and MediumSizered put it in a good context and perhaps I am a little harsh on Collo. .. Its just from the outside looking in he appeared to do the same thing he did to the AFL (when he was a commissioner, commissioning the Docklands and then jumped ship to the Docklands board). .. I dislike the fiduciary nature of the Docklands build and the Docklands/Carlton contract negotiation. .. I'll take it on board tho. .. Perhaps if I had an emotional attachment to Collo (never having seen him play) then I might have been fairer on him. ..

I prefer to think of the Salary Cap Scandal and the following dark years as an accident (a train wreck if you will) that we should move on from. ..

 

[bluepride]

Collo was a premiership player for us,

should rightfully kind of forgive a former premiership player for something we do not possess all the details about.

You have to look at Collos time objectively, because he was their to a do job (which we will agree to disagree on) but dont mention that fact we should forgive or understand because he played in a premiership with us.

He was employed and should be treated as if a stranger had taken up the position, because people shouldnt be given special treatment in business because of past achievements.

 

[Aphrodite]

If you go back through Bluepride's contributions over time you will find that he has been "outed" several times as a major fantasist. Nothing he has ever claimed (and he has claimed lots!) has ever been evidenced - absolutely nothing! He loves to name drop, particularly about his Dad who supposedly played over 200 games for the Blues but can't be identified. Recently bp tells us he is of Greek parentage - have we had a lot of Greek players who clocked up more than 200? Or did any of our 200+ players father a child 22 years ago with a Greek woman, who then mysteriously left the relationship? Apparently now he is even having polite conversations with SOS at kiddie games despite living on the Gold Coast! Unfortunately getting "outed" over these monstrous fibs doesn't stop him - he just waits awhile, goes quiet, then comes roaring back with more fibs. You can depend on it.

Marcou played 134 games & Kourkoumelis only played 62 games so it definitely is not either of those 2 from that era.

As for Bluepride being of Greek parentage, I doubt that very much Syd.

As for going to the same school as SOS (Marcellin) makes him an expert, well then I must be an even better expert as I went to the same school as Vinnie Catoggio & a few other AFL players from the 70's & 80's

Actually I doubt anything that Bluepride posts is genuine.
Seems to live in fantasy land

 

[Pie_squasher]

Collins had the unfortunate task of having to bring our TPP within the salary cap following the massive breaches overseen by Elliott.

Kouta was on a massive contract because the Lions had made a huge offer to try & get him to Brisbane. Allan was also on a large contract, thanks to his manager (David Allison) threatening to shop him around after Allan had won AA honours.

The reality is we were going to be that far over the salary cap for the 2003 season (& beyond) that if Collins didn't renegotiate the contracts with some of the highest paid players there would have been further penalties from the AFL, not to mention the prospect of not actually being able to afford to pay our players (the $1.5 million loan from the AFL was specifically obtained to honour player payments).

Collins made some tough financial decisions, in line with what the AFL deemed to be non-negotiable aspects of our financial situation, going forward (if we weren't so badly in debt we might not have had to accept the several million dollars we received to move to Etihad Stadium).

Whether the players liked it or not, Collins had to make these decisions to ensure the financial viability of our club & our club will always be bigger than the Koutas, Allans & Campos of this world.

MS - I usually agree with most of the things you say but on this "no way".

Collins was a virus with an agenda. He wantd Carlton at Etihad (of which he was obviously conflicted) - still managed to get it through and then all of a sudden lost the passion for the presidency. He is an ar**wipe of a bloke, money-hungry w**ker and the worst Carlton power broker that I have ever experienced.....I still curse whenever I here his name and deserves all Carlton supporters to spit on him.

F**k him - absolute ar**hole

 

[Wickzki]

To me Campo will always be one of those amazing one way players that the AFL has produced.

When Carlton was going top guns Camporeale was at his mercurial best -- flashy, attacking, highly entertaining to watch and an out and out champion.

However, when the pressure started I felt that there was always something a little lacking in Campo. I think the end of his tenure at Carlton and his move to Essendon really sum up his downside perfectly well.

 

[bluepride]

Read post 33 bud.

I said (dont at the same time) - i meant 'not'

pays to read

 

[bluepride]

Marcou played 134 games & Kourkoumelis only played 62 games so it definitely is not either of those 2 from that era.

As for Bluepride being of Greek parentage, I doubt that very much Syd.

As for going to the same school as SOS (Marcellin) makes him an expert, well then I must be an even better expert as I went to the same school as Vinnie Catoggio & a few other AFL players from the 70's & 80's

Actually I doubt anything that Bluepride posts is genuine.
Seems to live in fantasy land

arent you a girl?

 

[The Toad]

Read post 33 bud.

I said (dont at the same time) - i meant 'not'

pays to read

Yep, that's why I deleted it.

I read just fine, Ace. It's just that you write so much fictitious garbage that all your posts just meld into one another.

 

[The Toad]

arent you a girl?

Very thin ice, my friend. Very thin.

 

[Aphrodite]

arent you a girl?

What does that have to do with my knowledge of footy

You really have no idea whatsoever.

THINK before you post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Extremely thin.