Seaford so far from St.Kilda? What gives?

[stkildathunda]

Especially when the Frankston council were so bloody happy to have us come down and build that with little to no fuss at all.

Extremely happy, remember the heritage listed grandstand at the original place just happened to burn to the ground when things looked like backflipping

 

[Squizz]

We would have stayed at Moorabbin if Kingston Council weren't so susceptible to nimbys.

But there is still a long term lease there and some facilities, and if they hold the odd session/game at Linton St I can live with the move. The club needed much more modern facilities without paying a bomb, so whilst other options may represent better locations they were most likely uneconomic.

 

[Papa Juggs]

Collingwood = modern club rooms across the road.

Saints = miles from anywhere with a change room full of sewage.

We all know what decided the grand final replay.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Collingwood = modern club rooms across the road.

Saints = miles from anywhere with a change room full of sewage.

We all know what decided the grand final replay.

Collingwood = President on the board of VIS who kicked the VIS out of the facility it was meant to share with Collingwood - Also couldn't get their redevelopment done at Victoria Park

 

[Mister Magic]

There's also a small matter of the Australian F1 Grand Prix which makes Albert Park precinct unusable (or very difficult at the very least) for about 6 weeks during Feb/March.

 

[Flyingsaint]

it was good to hear the players have had some input into the new Building
BJ said he and Nick as representatives of the Leadership group toured and advised for final move about 5 weeks ago.

 

[sainter]

There have been some really interesting responses here. Thanks!

So it seems the general perception is that this is a good move to increase membership in the southeast direction, a little like what the Moorabbin move hoped to achieve, albeit Hawthorn trumped you by winning Frankston its own zone.

Extra members will be a great result, but at what cost to the club will this come with. Are you losing a sense of identity and sacrificing culture? You just cant buy the culture that a 100 year old club acquires.

I'm particularly interested to know what actual tangible connection you now have to 'St.Kilda', the location?

Looking at Google Maps satellite view, the Junction Oval area looks to have heaps of ovals and space to build a facility. What an amazing location that place is! ...And right where it all began so long ago!

In looking at the photos on the previous posts link, the Seaford setup looks nice and 'new', but absolutely lifeless and sterile. A bit of a desert. However, if you were to drop that building into the prestigious Junction Oval location, could you imagine the respect and pride that this would bring your club? This in itself would lift membership numbers. Some Saints fans on this thread have shown their displeasure at the move south east and wanted this to happen. Was this not possible and could no strings be pulled to see it realised? Your club does now have 42,000 members from 2010 I believe? So you would have some sway and influence.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

We're not losing our identity or sacrificing our culture at all. We are still maintaining a presence at Moorabbin. Our Heritage Museum will be located there for instance. However Moorabbin isn't St Kilda. We're not moving away from our original home. We did that 46 years ago.

The decision to move from St Kilda to Moorabbin wasn't a popular decision at the time but in the interests of the football club it turned out to be the right decision. Today, we have people saying we shouldn't move from Moorabbin because it's our home.

I liken it to the tired old clash jumper argument eminating from some of the bigger Victorian clubs. If they think the history of their powerful clubs is somehow compromised by a change of colours when there is a clash it doesn't say much about their history. A move 20 minutes down the road does nothing to compromise our history at all.

The other thing you (and plenty of others) need to understand was that moving to the Junction Oval was just not feasible. Sure, the thought of the St Kilda Football Club basing itself in St Kilda is nice. But in reality it couldn't happen. I'm a lifelong western suburbs resident. I followed us when we played at Moorabbin, at Waverley and now at Etihad. As a supporter it doesn't worry me in the slightest where our boys train. What worries me as a financial member is that we are giving the other 16 teams a massive advantage because we are training in below-par facilities that give the rest of the league an advantage.

We are a unique football club in the sense that our on-field history is terrible but we still have one of the bigger supporter bases in Melbourne. That in itself is quite remarkable. Would that have been the case if we had not moved to Moorabbin and established a presence in the bayside suburbs? Probably not. You need to make decisions that will have a positive impact on the future status of the club, not because it's the romantic option. When it became obvious the club could not come to an arrangement with the Kingston Council it made sense to move to a place where we had considerable support from the local council and the community.

I think you're trying to read more into this than necessary. From the perspective of a Western Australian looking at the demographics of the move I can understand your reservation. However this move makes perfect sense and will go a long way towards ensuring our future for many years to come.

 

[FarmersWife]

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

We're not losing our identity or sacrificing our culture at all. We are still maintaining a presence at Moorabbin. Our Heritage Museum will be located there for instance. However Moorabbin isn't St Kilda. We're not moving away from our original home. We did that 46 years ago.

The decision to move from St Kilda to Moorabbin wasn't a popular decision at the time but in the interests of the football club it turned out to be the right decision. Today, we have people saying we shouldn't move from Moorabbin because it's our home.

I liken it to the tired old clash jumper argument eminating from some of the bigger Victorian clubs. If they think the history of their powerful clubs is somehow compromised by a change of colours when there is a clash it doesn't say much about their history. A move 20 minutes down the road does nothing to compromise our history at all.

The other thing you (and plenty of others) need to understand was that moving to the Junction Oval was just not feasible. Sure, the thought of the St Kilda Football Club basing itself in St Kilda is nice. But in reality it couldn't happen. I'm a lifelong western suburbs resident. I followed us when we played at Moorabbin, at Waverley and now at Etihad. As a supporter it doesn't worry me in the slightest where our boys train. What worries me as a financial member is that we are giving the other 16 teams a massive advantage because we are training in below-par facilities that give the rest of the league an advantage.

We are a unique football club in the sense that our on-field history is terrible but we still have one of the bigger supporter bases in Melbourne. That in itself is quite remarkable. Would that have been the case if we had not moved to Moorabbin and established a presence in the bayside suburbs? Probably not. You need to make decisions that will have a positive impact on the future status of the club, not because it's the romantic option. When it became obvious the club could not come to an arrangement with the Kingston Council it made sense to move to a place where we had considerable support from the local council and the community.

I think you're trying to read more into this than necessary. From the perspective of a Western Australian looking at the demographics of the move I can understand your reservation. However this move makes perfect sense and will go a long way towards ensuring our future for many years to come.

I guess I'm trying to figure out exactly what connection the St.Kilda Saints have to the location of St.Kilda?

Do you think that a change of name to the Frankston Saints (or something broader) might be more suitable and also help to embrace these extra members that you're seeking to entice?

 

[Mr_Eastern]

We are changing our training base ONLY. I very much doubt that we will ever change our name !!

 

[CHBench]

Our facilities were close to the worst in the league at Moorabbin. Went inside a few years ago as part of a footy trip and it was a bit of a joke.

The pingpong table was the highlight, hands down.

 

[sainter]

I guess I'm trying to figure out exactly what connection the St.Kilda Saints have to the location of St.Kilda?

Do you think that a change of name to the Frankston Saints (or something broader) might be more suitable and also help to embrace these extra members that you're seeking to entice?

We actually did attempt to change our name in the mid 1980's to the Southern Saints for a very brief time. I can't find a picture of the logo online but I'm sure I have some old footy cards with it on. However it become perfectly obvious that people wouldn't accept the change. We are St Kilda and always will be. We are prepared to wear an alternative strip. We'll move our adminstration and training headquarters to a different suburb. However, even attempt to change our clubs name from St Kilda and you would have WWIII on your hands. You're trying to find a connection between the suburb of St Kilda and the St Kilda Football Club. Well, it's in the name. We might not play there or be based there but it's our heritage. Plenty of Western Bulldogs supporters would do anything to have their name change back to Footscray.

In regards to your second question, the move wasn't about attracting new members. We are moving because the club and Kingston Council couldn't come to an arrangement and we didn't have a choice. Therefore the club had to search for an alternative home. Seaford was the best option for us. There's no need for a name change. When we moved to Moorabbin it was a new and expanding area and it's gave our club the chance to appeal to a whole new demographic. Frankston is already an established football area with thousands of Saints fans.

You might find this article interesting. It's far too long to copy here but it's a great read. I reckon most of our supporters on here would find it interesting as well.

 

[stkildathunda]

Just started to read that article Sainter, may need to finish it after work as its a pretty long one.. Very interesting so far... Be prepared for a long read, you may want to plan in a half time break

 

[Highlander35]

A very very long article. But it gets it's point accross very well, and it's nice to see something other than drivel from a bulldog.

I'm not arguing against St. Kilda the name, I'm extremely glad we didn't, but as a child of the ninties I probably wouldn't care if we had.

But I've always been a bit disappointed with the lack of imagination, both with the song and the nickname.

Panthers, crusaders, Falcons, Dragons etc. If we do go for an independent VFL team or in a national reserves comp. It would be nice to have a cool nickname.

 

[Squizz]

But I've always been a bit disappointed with the lack of imagination, both with the song and the nickname.

Joking? You'd change from the Saints? To me, that seems the #1 thing we couldn't justify changing.

And Farmer's Wife - there is already a team called Frankston. They are called the Dolphins - I was going to go with the polishing line, but I'll let that go through to Brad Haddin.

Whilst the Southern Saints maybe had some merit in the VFL days, with a national competition (and Tassie still agitating for a gig) it doesn't mean alot nowadays. At least St Kilda means something (as that's where we came from).

 

[Squizz]

Thought there were a couple of interesting points in flicking thru the article.

One of the original conditions of occupancy discussed on March 17, 1964, at St Kilda’s committee meeting was: “The Moorabbin Football Club shall amalgamate with the St Kilda Football Club and the club shall be known as the St Kilda-Moorabbin Football Club for a period of 10 years, and after that period shall be known as the Moorabbin Football Club approval (providing is obtained from club members). On April 28, the president reported:”The condition originally imposed by the Moorabbin Council, namely that the name of the club be changed, has now been withdrawn.” A long forgotten rule in the club’s constitution stated that the name could not be changed unless three-quarters of the members voted for it.

There was considerable evidence to support the committee’s claim that it was taking the club to the heart of its supporter base, as up to 75 per cent of members in 1964 lived south of Elsternwick, while only one player came on the senior list was recruited from the City of St Kilda. Of the others, eight came from the country teams and 17 from southern areas such as Hampton, Sandringham, Cheltenham and Moorabbin.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

An interesting article that one, seems the St Kilda had the courage and luck (no something we seem to have much of) to make the right moves at the right time whilst Footscray didn't, had different moves been made imagine the possiblities.

• Footscray would have been much more resiliant with a larger support base, Essendon at the very least would have been less powerful maybe also Collingwood and Carlton.
• St Kilda might have been on the chopping block instead of South Melbourne

Also brings up other hypotheticals

What is St Kilda and South Melbourne had merged instead of South being moved to Sydney?
What would they have been known as? St Kilda - Blood Stained Angels / Blood Angels? Who would have been shunted to Sydney in their place? North Melbourne, Footscray, Fitzroy? Would a team have come in to replace South Melbourne?

What if Waverly had been converted to a 35k seater instead of scrapped completely? What if St Kilda and Hawthorn had teamed up to redevelop and play out of Moorabbin after Waverly was axed instead of playing in Tasmania?

What if Fitzroy had moved to Brisbane when they were offered it and the bears weren't created?

 

[Highlander35]

Going through the saints history, there's a lot of hypotheticals.

At one point we were almost bought out by Carlton (I think, can't find reference). Would that amalgamation have done us any good?

Should we have stuck with Tassie, and tried to get 5000-8000 members out of there?

Should we have pursued an amalgamation with South Melbourne or Fitzroy?

However, when you go to Hypotheticals, you can practically go for anything.

Had we amalgamated with another club pre 87 or even pre 82, would the Afl be what it is today? Who knows? The Eastern Dragons could be playing the Ballarat Falcons, the Western Jets taking on the Canberra Crusaders, with the NZ rams battling for a top 4 spot against the Perth Swans.

 

[InkerSaint]

I guess I'm trying to figure out exactly what connection the St.Kilda Saints have to the location of St.Kilda?

Do you think that a change of name to the Frankston Saints (or something broader) might be more suitable and also help to embrace these extra members that you're seeking to entice?

It's a historical connection... on one hand you're asking how it is the club retains its identity when it changes its training and administration base, the next you're suggesting the club change its name!

The name and the colours are what ties the club to its history, throw those away and you really have nothing left!

It's not as if clubs represent their namesake suburbs anyway, except symbolically. Fremantle is a perfect case in point, less than half their list are WA recruits...

I doubt the Frankston locals mind if the club don't adopt their name, the locals have already aligned with a club or they wouldn't give two bob either way.

 

[Squizz]

At one point we were almost bought out by Carlton (I think, can't find reference). Would that amalgamation have done us any good?

No amalgamation.

We owed them money for some players, and they were happy for us to fold unless we gave them Trevor Barker and someone else (probably Joffa). Arseholes.

The club, with Lindsay Fox at the helm, raised some money via supporters becoming shareholders at $200 a pop (including a raid on Squizzy's piggy-bank) and managed to come up with a scheme of arrangement to survive.

 

[Kildonan]

I think FarmersWife is clutching at straws.

The inference I get from her is that if the St Kilda FC moves up the road then they are no longer the same club.

Many people are envious of our status as a foundation member of this competition.

Our club has been in existence since 1873 and has a very significant history helping to shape the competition from its very beginning.

Fremantle FC, by comparison, has been around for 5 minutes and remains very much a passenger of the competition we have helped to create.

I think FarmersWife wants to claim that all of our history and all of our identity as a club is now voided and we should become a new club younger and less influential than even they are - all because we are training in a different spot

 

[Ice-Wolf]

I think Farmers_wife is clutching at straws.

The inference I get from her is that if the St Kilda FC moves up the road then they are no longer the same club.

Many people are envious of our status as a foundation member of this competition.

Our club has been in existence since 1873 and has a very significant history helping to shape the competition from its very beginning.

Fremantle FC, by comparison, has been around for 5 minutes and remains very much a passenger of the competition we have helped to create.

I think Farmers_wife wants to claim that all of our history and all of our identity as a club is now voided and we should become a new club younger and less influential than even they are - all because we are training in a different spot

Yep, we have a great history of finding all the flaws and inequities in the system (mostly by being ****ed by them). Imagine how poorly the other clubs would have done over the years if they didn't have us to **** over.

 

[Kildonan]

But for all the years of being r*ped of all our good players and other personnel by the richer clubs has led to the salary cap and equalisation protocols that make this competition feasible for all. Thus allowing clubs like Fremantle to exist.

If these features were not in place there would only be Collingwood, Essendon, Adelaide and West Coast left in the competition.

What a dour world that would be

 

[Ice-Wolf]

If only Hawthorn hadn't have screwed us out of having Frankston as part of our Zone, we'd have had Mathews and Dermie, probably would have got at least one flag in the 70s-80s, but then as you say we wouldn't have got the Draft and Salary Cap.

Although it would be nice for a change to not be ****ed over by a flaw in the rules/system before it gets changed

 

[Persevering Saint]

Yes, it's much nicer to see ourselves as a mix between sacrificial lamb and experimental rat of the VFL/AFL.

 

[Squizz]

Noting Bakes has been experimented on 3 times by the AFL!