Browne's game

[Madtiger2006]

Re: Brownes game

Miller was recruited as a ruck backup was he?

So why did Browne only have 76% TOG and Jamar playing his first game back managed 80% At least when Miller did go in he got a clearance to Brownes none and 4 inside 50s to Brownes none. Pointless blaming him for us being smashed in the ruck. I suppose Post would have been better.

They got 20 more hitouts because Miller was our other ruckman. Pretty obvious
Browne had a similar amount to Jamar, but Miller had no where near Martin

 

[Bazzar]

Re: Brownes game

They got 20 more hitouts because Miller was our other ruckman. Pretty obvious
Browne had a similar amount to Jamar, but Miller had no where near Martin

What a lot of rubbish. Are you honestly trying to tell me Miller competed in at least 22 ruck contests?

 

[Madtiger2006]

Re: Brownes game

What a lot of rubbish. Are you honestly trying to tell me Miller competed in at least 22 hitouttests?

Yep. He played about 1/4 of game time in ruck contests. Browne matched his opponent in the 3/4 he played in the ruck and being so inexperienced he would have been buggered late in the game. How about taking your hands off your eyes, enjoying the positives, allow him to work on negatives(has only played 9 games btw) and support Browne FFS

 

[Tiger Titus]

Re: Brownes game

The most worrying aspect of his game, is that his teammates seemed at times reluctant to give him the ball, presumably because of his poor disposal both by foot and by hand.

Agree with this. At least once we lost the ball because a bloke let himself get tackled rather than hand it off to Browne. He's a liability when we are trying to move the ball out of our defensive 50, long kicks just bounce off his head and players don't want to link up with him because they don't trust his disposal.

I don't understand why some of you were satisfied with his game yesterday. There were several occasions where I was wishing big Gussy was on the park instead.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Re: Brownes game

Agree with this. At least once we lost the ball because a bloke let himself get tackled rather than hand it off to Browne. He's a liability when we are trying to move the ball out of our defensive 50, long kicks just bounce off his head and players don't want to link up with him because they don't trust his disposal.

I don't understand why some of you were satisfied with his game yesterday. There were several occasions where I was wishing big Gussy was on the park instead.

Satisfied because he competed...not totally satisfied with his game...there's a difference......

 

[Bazzar]

Re: Brownes game

Yep. He played about 1/4 of game time in ruck contests. Browne matched his opponent in the 3/4 he played in the ruck and being so inexperienced he would have been buggered late in the game. How about taking your hands off your eyes, enjoying the positives, allow him to work on negatives(has only played 9 games btw) and support Browne FFS

Ill support him when he starts to show something. He is no better or worse than Gus and thats a major worry (Gus is by far superior with his ruck work)

And as pointed out earlier, excluding Saturday, Brownes last 3 opponents all had blinders and received coaches votes. If that was any other fringe player everyone would be screaming for their axing.

I know he is young, and throws himself in 10 times better than Gus, but his overall skill level is ordinary by AFL standards, he is slow as a wet week and as uncoordinated and awkward as any player i can remember. That said, i still dont want him dropped at least for the next 2 games when from memory our next block starts, and if Gus has bettered his good Coburg form then he should be bought back for another go.

So i take it, Browne has been added to you lush list with Postie and Griff?

 

[YellowAndBlack83]

Re: Brownes game

Sad to say he is the dumbest footballer I have ever seen and boy is he slow he is so slow he makes slow look fast

 

[Madtiger2006]

Re: Brownes game

Ill support him when he starts to show something. He is no better or worse than Gus and thats a major worry (Gus is by far superior with his ruck work)

And as pointed out earlier, excluding Saturday, Brownes last 3 opponents all had blinders and received coaches votes. If that was any other fringe player everyone would be screaming for their axing.

I know he is young, and throws himself in 10 times better than Gus, but his overall skill level is ordinary by AFL standards, he is slow as a wet week and as uncoordinated and awkward as any player i can remember. That said, i still dont want him dropped at least for the next 2 games when from memory our next block starts, and if Gus has bettered his good Coburg form then he should be bought back for another go.

So i take it, Browne has been added to you lush list with Postie and Griff?

Browne has already proven to be better than Graham. Alot better in the ruck contests and much better mark. Graham doesn't even jump anymore

 

[Bazzar]

Re: Brownes game

Browne has already proven to be better than Graham. Alot better in the ruck contests and much better mark. Graham doesn't even jump anymore

Rubbish. The only basic stats Browne is in front is handball, ave 9.8 to Gus 6.2. and goal assists 0.4 to Gus`s 0.2, every other from kicks, marks, tackles, hitouts, eff hitouts, i50s goals contributed etc is in Gus`s favour.

And the dont jump anymore thing is complete rubbish and BF myth. Only one game against the Dogs did he change his style for reasons no one still has explained.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Re: Brownes game

Rubbish. The only basic stats Browne is in front is handball, ave 9.8 to Gus 6.2. and goal assists 0.4 to Gus`s 0.2, every other from kicks, marks, tackles, hitouts, eff hitouts, i50s goals contributed etc is in Gus`s favour.

And the dont jump anymore thing is complete rubbish and BF myth. Only one game against the Dogs did he change his style for reasons no one still has explained.

Browne is a better overhead mark, better jump than Graham. I'm hoping you haven't been to too many games in the last 2 years because you would be agreeing with me if you did, unless you get smashed every game. Browne has taken half a dozen strong overhead marks already. I reckon Graham has taken about 2 in his career

 

[rammbo]

does it really matter they r both diabolical

 

[Bomber Man]

Just for an outsider's perspective, I don't understand why Richmond supporters are so down on Graham. I think he's a reasonably solid ruckman, would be in the better half of first rucks in the AFL, and I'm staggered that anyone is happy with Browne being played ahead of him.

I actually thought Graham was having a breakout season and was just being rested after the Bulldogs game. He took the typical ruckman beating from the giant Sandilands the week before the Doggies match (virtually on his own for that matter, Vickery hardly even took a run in the middle to give a slight rest) and rucked virtually the whole game every week before the Bulldogs game. In most of his matches he out-performedhis opposition ruck through the second half, but in his last 3 games did look to be tiring toward the ends of matches, hence me thinking he needed a refresher. By the way, for those who haven't seen Hudson too much, he makes a habit of really belting into his opposing ruckman (more so than most rucks), so on the back of the Sandilands experience, I wasn't too surprised Graham was running low on steam by the Bulldogs match end.

For mine, Graham is a far better tap ruck, provides far more body pressure in packs and at centre bounces, is handy and an accurate shot when he goes forward, and is pretty good with the ball. Brown constantly hacks his disposal, provides no body presence in packs, very rarely tackles, and has kicked 1 goal only in his short career. His game against Essendon was valiant, but not really that good - his disposals were mostly awful, and that was probably his best game.

I think someone mentioned that some stats showed a better picture of Browne than Graham earlier in this thread, can't see how.
Browne'ss had 16 clangers in 61 disposals vs Graham 21 from 93
Browne's ave'd 12.2 disp vs Graham 11.6, but kicks are 2.4 to 5.4 indicating more ground use from Graham.
Browne's ave 2.8 tackles vs Graham 5.1 (2nd at Rich behind Foley, the highest of any AFL ruck)
Browne had 8 x 1%ers this week which evened up what was a lower ave (2.25 each)
Browne 1 goal 0b in 5 games, Graham 4g 0b in 8 games
Browne 4 I50s and 2 goal assists, Graham 16 I50s and 2 GAs
Graham averages more markes, hit outs and HO to advantage - and his averages include the typical belting handed out by Sandilands.

Pretty one sided picture for mine.

I'd rate Graham ahead of rucks Warnock, Wood, McEvoy, Seaby, Bellchambers, Brogan, Bailey, Hampson, Hudson, Minson, Renouf, Fraser, and ofcourse Browne. He's no Sandilands or Cox, but he's not far off the mark of guys like Goldstein, Jacobs, or even Jamar. In my opinion, he contributes a lot more than Browne, and I don't see a huge upside to develop in Browne - he hardly a Naitanui or Zac Smith...

 

[Infamy]

Yes but Browne is 20 and has plenty of improvement left in him, Graham is 24 and is more of a known quantity. Graham could still have a breakout season, but it would appear that priority is being given to developing Browne at this stage.

 

[rammbo]

Just for an outsider's perspective, I don't understand why Richmond supporters are so down on Graham. I think he's a reasonably solid ruckman, would be in the better half of first rucks in the AFL, and I'm staggered that anyone is happy with Browne being played ahead of him.

I actually thought Graham was having a breakout season and was just being rested after the Bulldogs game. He took the typical ruckman beating from the giant Sandilands the week before the Doggies match (virtually on his own for that matter, Vickery hardly even took a run in the middle to give a slight rest) and rucked virtually the whole game every week before the Bulldogs game. In most of his matches he out-performedhis opposition ruck through the second half, but in his last 3 games did look to be tiring toward the ends of matches, hence me thinking he needed a refresher. By the way, for those who haven't seen Hudson too much, he makes a habit of really belting into his opposing ruckman (more so than most rucks), so on the back of the Sandilands experience, I wasn't too surprised Graham was running low on steam by the Bulldogs match end.

For mine, Graham is a far better tap ruck, provides far more body pressure in packs and at centre bounces, is handy and an accurate shot when he goes forward, and is pretty good with the ball. Brown constantly hacks his disposal, provides no body presence in packs, very rarely tackles, and has kicked 1 goal only in his short career. His game against Essendon was valiant, but not really that good - his disposals were mostly awful, and that was probably his best game.

I think someone mentioned that some stats showed a better picture of Browne than Graham earlier in this thread, can't see how.
Browne'ss had 16 clangers in 61 disposals vs Graham 21 from 93
Browne's ave'd 12.2 disp vs Graham 11.6, but kicks are 2.4 to 5.4 indicating more ground use from Graham.
Browne's ave 2.8 tackles vs Graham 5.1 (2nd at Rich behind Foley, the highest of any AFL ruck)
Browne had 8 x 1%ers this week which evened up what was a lower ave (2.25 each)
Browne 1 goal 0b in 5 games, Graham 4g 0b in 8 games
Browne 4 I50s and 2 goal assists, Graham 16 I50s and 2 GAs
Graham averages more markes, hit outs and HO to advantage - and his averages include the typical belting handed out by Sandilands.

Pretty one sided picture for mine.

I'd rate Graham ahead of rucks Warnock, Wood, McEvoy, Seaby, Bellchambers, Brogan, Bailey, Hampson, Hudson, Minson, Renouf, Fraser, and ofcourse Browne. He's no Sandilands or Cox, but he's not far off the mark of guys like Goldstein, Jacobs, or even Jamar. In my opinion, he contributes a lot more than Browne, and I don't see a huge upside to develop in Browne - he hardly a Naitanui or Zac Smith...

Mabe a straight swap for bellchambers, would ya b happy with that ?

 

[Bazzar]

Very good post by Bomber Man, and on the Sandilands game, the week before against the Dogs, Sandi had a massive 53 hitouts and was in rare form even for himself, the following week Gus dragged him back to 43 @ 28%eff to Gus`s 12 @ 42% and was very good around the ground with 13 touches @100% eff, 6 marks, 8 tackles, 3 inside 50s, 16 pressure acts, 1 goal and 3 involvements and for those into it 96dt points.

The week later in the Dogs game that everyone goes on about Gus being crap because he wouldnt jump, well he convincingly beat Hudson in the ruck and was the dominant ruck for the day. He had 29 @21% to Hudson 22 @ 18%. Hudson got the gong because hiw work around the ground was superior (our whole team was crap apart from Nahas)

The following week when he was allegedly dropped, i posted that in my opinion how could you drop a player after 6 solid games (bad against the Tankers and Hawks) and that he wasnt dropped but rested, as Hardwick was on record as saying we are going through the year in 4 game blocks and the Essendon game was number 9.

Not sure how the 4 game blocks work with a bye chucked in, and four not going into twenty two, but im assuming the start of the next block could be the Suns game and Gus will come back in then.

 

[Bomber Man]

Mabe a straight swap for bellchambers, would ya b happy with that ?

Yeah, I would. Definitely ahead of Browne.

 

[Bomber Man]

Yes but Browne is 20 and has plenty of improvement left in him, Graham is 24 and is more of a known quantity. Graham could still have a breakout season, but it would appear that priority is being given to developing Browne at this stage.

Rucks don't tend to break out until they get to their mid-20's, Browne may learn to play with the benefit of his size but at the moment I don't think he is anywhere near it - I haven't seen many good effective disposals from him, even in the Essendon game.

If you look back, guys like Cox and Sandilands didn't really step it up until they were around 24, Jacob is having his first big year at 23, Goldstein's about to turn 24 and is in his break out year, Jamar came on a little bit later, Jolly was also more like 25.

It's really normal for rucks to start to hit their straps in their mid-20s, it's the most physical position on the ground and their bodies mature and fill out a little later.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Between Gus and Browne I reckon Browne is potentially the better pure ruck. But Gus offers so much more around the game. He does hit up leads, can kick and gets involved so much more. Browne is a useful link, but because you know he will handball teams now just sit on him and nail the guy coming past. Gus has tools around the ground Browne doesn't. If Browne could kick I would be 50:50, but he can't.
I reckon Gus looks like ending up a B grade ruck. That's OK, but we all want the A grader. Browne ain't no A grader. TV can be A grade, but may be best suited as a forward/ruck where he causes huge match up problems. Diericx might be OK, but I haven't seen anything to know. I'm happy to wait for 2-3 years until we are contenders. Then it is time to see whether we trade for a ruck, or go with what we have then.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Browne can kick. Just because he gives off handballs usually doesn't mean he can't kick

 

[Truetiger]

Re: Brownes game

Spot on RT.

The amount of times Jamar and Martin got decisive taps which amounted to decisive clearances was enormous. Browne got a few taps but had no influence, he was beaten.

He is C-grade, Gus is B. I am getting sick of losing contested footy and clearances every single week but we should at least be playing our best ruckman.

How can Graham be B Grade lol. You had a few drinks as Madtiger said. What has Graham done to get such a high mark.

 

[Bomber Man]

Anyone think that Gus might possibly be headed for GWS? Browne's form has not been up to what Gus provides, could it be a less public episode of N.Bock to GC last year?

 

[tugga]

Anyone think that Gus might possibly be headed for GWS? Browne's form has not been up to what Gus provides, could it be a less public episode of N.Bock to GC last year?

I would do cartwheels from here in Barwon Heads all over the bridge to Ocean Grove if Gus has signed with GWS.
We get a draft pick for a lazy spud and we don't have to trade for it.

 

[City Search]

Anyone think that Gus might possibly be headed for GWS? Browne's form has not been up to what Gus provides, could it be a less public episode of N.Bock to GC last year?

I can only hope

 

[Bazzar]

The only way the Tiges would let Gus go is if they got way over the odds in a trade. We dont have a ruck and the Browne experiment is on its last legs. He is a just passable and has been smashed in every game bar one this year.

 

[Rustof]

Come on Brownie, try tapping to an actual advantage this time...